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Real estate agent’s perfect daily schedule for 2024. Discover time management techniques to boost your performance and close more deals.
Are you ready to supercharge your real estate career? Our latest show reveals the ultimate daily schedule for agents in 2024! Learn how to balance showings, client communications, and personal development while maintaining a healthy work-life balance. We’ll share tips and tools that can help streamline your day-to-day activities for optimal results.
#1 – Morning Routine (1 Hour)
This is a particular time in their daily routine. They collect their thoughts and concentrate on the upcoming day during their morning ritual, which is crucial for putting themselves in the best possible frame of mind to face the day. While other folks contemplate, I choose to pray. Praying first thing in the morning helps me stay present, practice thankfulness, and spend time in the Word.
#2 – Lead Generation (3 Hours)
Being a real estate agent requires starting a new company to continue in the industry! About your career, you’ll need to do daily to generate leads. Thus, remember to put it on your calendar!
Getting new listings, calling previous clients, texting hot leads, prospecting, and scheduling appointments are all examples of lead-generating activities.
#3 – Administrative Tasks (3 Hours)
Once you’ve completed your top priority, you can proceed to the administrative duties listed in your agenda. These administrative duties are necessary to keep your firm operating: returning calls and emails, attending listing appointments, putting together listing presentations, showing properties, and other everyday responsibilities.
Afternoon
#4 – Appointments and Networking (2 Hours)
Being a REALTOR® requires networking and in-person appointments. You should network with possible clients and hold client meetings throughout this block.
You can also incorporate in-person workshops, events, or spending time with industry professionals within this time block, as you’ve already completed your lead generation for the day.
#5 – Review Day Ahead (1 Hour)
Reviewing your complete day is another crucial task for your real estate agenda. Outstanding real estate brokers ensure they are ready for any situation that may arise tomorrow. Please verify your scheduled appointments, review your MLS hot sheets, and ensure everything related to your real estate business is in order.
#6 – Personal Time (3 Hours)
This time window is about being purposeful in the last few hours of the day. Spend an hour or two preparing dinner, engaging in a favorite pastime, enjoying a good book, or spending time with your family. It also includes downtime, relaxation, and rejuvenation. You’ll work yourself to death if you don’t take breaks.
[00:02:31.980] – Robert Newman
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Today’s episode is number 440. If you mix those numbers up, you get the infinite. I’ll see if anybody knows how I did that magic number math. So we’re about ready to talk about the most essential subject, technically, that you can talk about. Nothing comes before this, not any of the stuff that we talked about, not video, not anything. This is the first thing that gets you to everywhere else. We’ve never, as far as I can remember, talked about it in-depth here on the show. Today, we’re going to talk about Schedules. John has the show’s title, Perfect Daily Schedule for a Real Estate Agent in 2024. I’m going to say that we’re just going to talk about what may be some tools to find the perfect schedule for yourself in 2024. But before we jump into that, the fearless producer of this show, the magic man behind three top podcasts in three different sections of three different industries, is here waiting to dazzle and entertain you and make fun of me. But I want to let him introduce himself before we jump into the show’s meat.
[00:03:57.340] – Robert Newman
Go ahead, John.
[00:03:58.410] – Jonathan Denwood
I got enough. So the 440, if they get the importance of the number, do they get a prize, Robert?
[00:04:08.500] – Robert Newman
Yeah, you get a free call with me.
[00:04:11.720] – Jonathan Denwood
All right. What could you ask for a real estate agent? I do two other podcasts, folks, but they’re in the same area. Just one is targeted at different groups in that particular industry. But yeah, so I am the co-founder of Melright. We are a company that produces great-looking websites on WordPress for you. Plus, we offer a great CRM and online marketing platform, which has a focus on Facebook. I said WordPress twice there, but Facebook, back over to you, Rob.
[00:04:53.930] – Robert Newman
All right.
[00:04:54.640] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, ladies and gentlemen, you should offer a better prize.
[00:05:00.560] – Robert Newman
All right. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Robert Newman. I’m the founder of Inbound-REM, Inbound real estate marketing is what that sounds like. We’re the only inbound marketing agency I know of focusing on residential real estate. We use SEO as one of our mechanisms to market our clients. Eighty % of our business is generated organically. It focuses on all four quadrants of Google: local video, images, and traditional search. We’re good at it, and we have a lot of free information about how to do it yourself. If you’re interested in that, you can find it all at inboundrem. Com. All right, with no further ado, we will jump into a schedule. This is a fascinating topic, one which I hesitated to take on because I feel like it’s very personal. It’s an individual subject. John’s nodding. For those of you who are not watching, he’s nodding.
Nonetheless, we selected it, and we’re going to talk about it. John, I’m going to do a preamble, which I informed you that I was going to do a preamble. I want to let everybody know two things. One, digital has saved my schedule.
[00:06:26.740] – Robert Newman
Being a digital entrepreneur is the best thing I’ve ever done for myself because all the years, which was 30 plus, that I was a professional sales leader and sales manager, I ran schedules very similar to what we’re going to talk about, generally up at 5 AM and not down or done with work-related or my intrinsically central schedule until 07:00 PM. I certainly experienced some success. Rarely was I not in the top one or two % of any sales And when I was not in the sales force, I was usually leading the sales force. So certainly I have plenty of experience, not directly in real estate. So having said that, your schedule, in my opinion, needs to serve one thing and one thing alone, which is what your aspirations are, and where you want to go with your life and your career. I’ve always generated a deep dislike of the word goals. Goals are just dreams with deadlines. I do like that—that thought. And your dream should be unique to you. You can want to open a bakery business. You don’t have to want to make a million dollars as a real estate salesperson. It could be a tool you use to serve some other part of your life, or you could love doing it.
[00:07:45.670] – Robert Newman
And then if you do love doing it, my advice would be, how do you do it more efficiently with more passion and preserve more of your time to do other things that broaden your character and your life? That’s where I would come from these days. So Having said all of that, John, you went to three different websites. Went to an influencer called Jamie Hyme, sorry, Resindiz. Maybe I’m saying that wrong. He’s a realtor. He’s got a great video that we both watched to develop some notes. He went to Tom Ferry, who’s got a lot on scheduling, but he referenced a post called Real Estate Agent’s Perfect Day. Then he went to the Real Estate Agent’s Schedule on Community Influencer. They all have various things that they’re talking about breaking down your day. But why don’t we get into morning routine number one, and you share your thoughts about that, John?
[00:08:47.400] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, it’s the first hour, the first hour before you go into battle. It’s getting yourself in the right mindset because I think if you’re going to be effective in this industry, you’ve got to get yourself in the right mind because there’s a lot of rejection. If one of the good things about being more digital-focused is it’s going to reduce the amount of face-to-face rejection you’ll be exposed to, but there’s still going There’s a bit of an element there. I think, personally myself, but I think it does depend on the target audience. More of what I would say are more classical lead-generated processes like knocking on doors and phone calls. I think they can be effective if your target audience might be older. But I also believe in my heart that a lot of these more traditional marketing-led generative morphologies are gradually reducing in effectiveness. But if you’re still engaged in a lot, there are a lot of trainers and a lot of influencers that still square at utilizing what I call these more traditional mythologies, I think you’re going to be exposed to a fair bit of rejection, and you’re going to have to get yourself in your mind state.
[00:10:42.410] – Jonathan Denwood
And I do this myself. And And I also map out. I have a regular pattern depending on the day. My pattern varies depending on the work day, which I described to Robert before we started recording. And I do have a pattern, and I work it out in this hour. Plus, I look at my notes and I draw up a rough schedule. And I do think you do need some plan of action for each day, which has to be adapted. You’ve got to be prepared to be able to adapt. But on the other hand, if you got no schedule, I think the days turn into weeks and the weeks turn into months, and it all floats away, really, Rob.
[00:11:41.340] – Robert Newman
I don’t disagree with that. Currently, I’ve got what I would reference to everybody for me personally is a semi-retired schedule. I generally set aside six hours a day, 6 days a week for theoretical hard work practices. For me, morning schedule is neurodivergent, which is really, really, really important to mention to everybody here. It’s something that I’ve been unmedicated for my entire life, but definitely have. And so my schedule really is based on a number of psychological strategies that I found to work very well for me. When I wake up and I know that I need to have a productive day, I start with the smallest things possible as fast as possible, which is make my bed get I have a 10-minute workout routine and a 10-minute stretch routine that on days in which I’m doing what’s called high productivity, I know for a fact that I’ve got to roll right into those routines as soon as I wake up because the second I get distracted, my whole day, it can get derailed. So for me, it’s about hitting those small things. Now, once I’m focused, it’s hard to get me unfocused. So if I get to those 30 minutes and I manage to successfully complete those activities, oftentimes I can roll into my other things, which for me personally, I don’t have a scripted routine because my mind rebels against it.
[00:13:11.160] – Robert Newman
What I have is a general list of things that I need to accomplish. And I cycle in what feels best to me that day into that slot when I have the time. I’ve spent years trying to do various routines, and that works best for me, which is why I was hesitant to talk about this schedule because I felt like a hypocrite since I don’t maintain something that looks like a regular schedule. So for me, that hour, it makes sense to me. What I’ve seen other people do, other people I’ve worked with, other people I’ve coached, is obviously wake up and pray, wake up and exercise, wake up and spend time with their family, wake up and get their kids to school, wake up and do things of a wide variety. But generally speaking, the psychological element, what worked the best for me when I was in a high pressure, high productivity sales environments was doing 10 minutes of tasks and then definitely getting to recordings that were motivational to me. I probably listened to thousands upon thousands upon thousands of hours of sales material and psychological material because I discovered early in my career when I was about 19, that it worked really well for me personally listening to Zig Zigler or Tom Hopkins or somebody like that.
[00:14:38.760] – Robert Newman
It actually ramped me up, riled me up for my day, and all of my productivity and record-breaking sales activities were done on the backs of the old salesmasters and these boxes of cassettes and such that I would have that I would always just put into either a walkman or my car and play that material right up until the point that I walked into the sales office or walked into the sales appointment, always right until that point.
[00:15:04.400] – Jonathan Denwood
You do realize that some of the listeners of this podcast don’t know what we’re talking about when you say a cassette.
[00:15:13.370] – Robert Newman
Really? You think?
[00:15:15.370] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, it came up to me with a podcast I was doing this morning, and we were talking about a cassette, and the younger member of the panel said, What is that?
[00:15:30.050] – Robert Newman
How young was this person?
[00:15:33.350] – Jonathan Denwood
He was about 26.
[00:15:36.090] – Robert Newman
John, sometimes you just blow holes in my whole day without even… I don’t know. Sometimes I wonder if you’re doing perp. That makes me… Wow. Really?
[00:15:45.700] – Jonathan Denwood
Are you kidding right now? We’re that old, bro.
[00:15:48.480] – Robert Newman
Wow. All right. We’re going to move on to number two because John just took all the air out of my sales, all of it.
[00:15:56.670] – Jonathan Denwood
It made me feel very old this morning.
[00:15:59.760] – Robert Newman
Because he wasn’t kidding.
[00:16:02.170] – Jonathan Denwood
He didn’t know what we were talking about. What?
[00:16:05.350] – Robert Newman
How can you be 26 and not know what a cassette is? Come on.
[00:16:10.630] – Jonathan Denwood
I know 26. I don’t think he was widely up and did as that, actually, Rob.
[00:16:15.060] – Robert Newman
Okay. Because I know people who are 26 that still know what vinyl is. If you know what a record is, come on, you know what a cassette is. Eight track, maybe not, maybe not. But a cassette, come on.
[00:16:30.900] – Jonathan Denwood
There you go.
[00:16:32.570] – Robert Newman
Okay, number two. John is going to lead us off here. Lead generation.
[00:16:37.840] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, especially on the digital side, it’ll be interesting what you say, because obviously, if it’s a more traditional morphology, What they’re saying, after you’ve done some of the things that Robert’s outlined, you’re going to have to be into lead generation. I think it’s best to get this done in the morning because in the afternoon, other stuff might rear its head. Viewing property emergencies with clients, dealing with paperwork, dealing with emergencies that might come up first thing in the morning. But if you dealt with an emergency situation in the morning, you got to be doing your lead generation. But like I say, they’ve got three hours here. That’s a hard slog. But that’s the more traditional model where you’re calling for leads, when you’re door knocking, when you’re touching base with previous clients. And touching with other previous clients, I think if you’re more digitally focused, I think that’s probably an area that you could expand, which I know by looking at the research, most real estate agents are really poor about keeping in contact with previous clients.
[00:17:58.040] – Robert Newman
Sure.
[00:17:58.690] – Jonathan Denwood
And they’re really, really bad about that. So if you’re more and also producing digital content, if you’re not hiring a superb company that Robert runs, if you’re not doing that, and you’re generating all the content, video, posts, social media content, but also keeping in contact with previous clients. If you’re new, it’s producing all the digital stuff. But I’ll be interested in to see what Rob’s got to say about this.
[00:18:39.070] – Robert Newman
Well, I spent a lifetime Doing chase marketing. All of my lead generation, all of my sales was always outbound calls. The only company that really that started to change from me a lot consistently was at Agent Image, where we were doing more inbound. But even then, when they hired me on, they hired me on to make outbound calls to their 10,000 plus customers and create a sales process to sell those customers’ online marketing services. So I chased and chased and chased and chased, and we chased and chased and chased and chased. My whole career has been chasing people down, which is why I switched to being an inbound marketer. I’ve done it for 30 years, 30 years of chasing. And I discovered a lot of different things. One of the things that I discovered is that, number one, the psychology of where people are at in the information age as a society, is there really getting to a place where most people want to be in charge of when they call a sales-related resource, whether that’s when they initiate interest, when they’re following up on a proposal or a pitch or whatever you want to call it.
[00:19:50.740] – Robert Newman
Most of the time people want to be in charge of that process, and there’s lots and lots of tools that prove that I’m not wrong. I have a tool on my phone that literally forbids anybody from getting to me that I don’t want them to get to me. I know a lot of other people do, too. So when it comes to lead generation, I’d rather spend my hours doing something that can speak to tens of thousands of people as opposed to one. That’s where my mind and digital has gotten in the age that we live in. I’d rather spend my lead generation time building out a video. Even if I made a video for for a highly focused customer group, let’s say people that sell log cabins, if you’re me, right? And there’s not that many of those. There’s only so many of those in the US. But let’s say I have a really great strategy to give away for free to people that sell Log Cabins. So I create a video, post it. Let’s say it’s 500 agents in the country that might be interested in it, and maybe they’re going to see that video over the span of five years.
[00:20:56.360] – Robert Newman
I’m done with the video in two hours, completely finished. Maybe it takes five years for 500 agents to do that specific strategy to see it. The way that I always think of lead generation these days is still it does not matter. I knocked on 500 doors in two hours, something that is literally impossible for me to do any other way except using digital. I’m using a very minute example. Some of the time with some of the content that I produced, it knocks on thousands of doors, and I spent a couple of hours making it. When you’re knocking You’re sitting on thousands of doors in just a couple of hours and you look at lead generation as a mathematical equation, it is digital that has saved my schedule. I only take inbound calls, and I don’t send outbound follow-up emails at all. I’m talking about not one, not one single outbound email. What I do when I talk to a prospect is if they’re not already signed up to my email list, I just put them there. They’re getting an email from me, a couple of them every month. Is it specific to the that we talked about?
[00:22:00.510] – Robert Newman
No. But I don’t need to do that. If they want to get back in touch with me after speaking to me for a few hours, they certainly can. There’s a link to my calendar. I spend zero time in follow-up. I spend zero time other than digital lead generation collection. And it’s the best decision I’ve ever made for my entire life and career. I work less, I sell more, and I’ve taken charge of my results in a way that I don’t think I could have without the digital revolution being what it is. I have very strong, and I’ve helped other clients do this, which is what I told John. I have real estate agents that More important, like one of my case studies, which is on my website, is we’ve got a guy that we’ve increased his income by two and a half times, and he works about 30% less. That is not the right equation for some of you. Some of you are workaholic. He’s a brand father. He wanted to work less and make more. We figured out a way to have that happen, and we did it mostly using digital tools, digital lead generation, digital follow-up tools, digital calendars, digital everything.
[00:23:16.410] – Robert Newman
He doesn’t spend very much time, just like I don’t spend very much time making that wasted effort of, I’m going to call you back. Call me in August. It’s such a blow-off. It’s like, Okay, well, Sure. But why? Call me back if you’re interested, right?
[00:23:36.750] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah. I think it’s time for a break, Rob.
[00:23:40.080] – Robert Newman
You got it. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to be right back. Wherever you’re listening to us or wherever you can hear the sound of my voice, do me a favor, look at that platform, give us a thumbs up, like or share our content with other real estate agents that you think might need a perspective on schedule. We would really appreciate it, number one, and number two, if you’re our fan, if you’re our audience member, reach out to John, reach out to me, leave us a comment somewhere, anything to let us know, raise your hand and say, Hey, we listen to you guys. We’d really appreciate it. It warrants the work that we put into the show. John does a lot of heavy lifting. It would make him feel good, and I’d appreciate that. All right, thank you. We’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It’s episode number 440 of The Mailright Show. We’re talking about the What is the perfect real estate schedule for 2024? In other words, what is the perfect schedule for you? All right, so we’ve talked about a lot. I really spend a lot of time talking at the end of lead generation.
[00:24:43.480] – Robert Newman
We’re going to talk about administrative tasks, which, generally speaking, is another separate section inside your schedule. John has used a combination of looking at these schedule recommendations from professional trainers and professional to come up with three-hour block, three-hour block. Whether you agree with that or not, I don’t know that I do, but administrative tasks he’s got here on the calendar. Why don’t you talk about that for a second?
[00:25:12.590] – Jonathan Denwood
I thought three hours was a bit crazy because I love to get some feedback from our listeners. I think if you’re spending three hours on administration, I think per day, I think you should be looking at outsourcing that. And I think most brokerage, if you’re working with a brokerage, if it’s a more traditional model, they provide administrative services. I don’t know what you think, Rob. If I was spending three hours per day in an administration, I would hope to be able to cut that down by utilizing digital processes, a assistant or the brokerage resources. What do you reckon?
[00:26:03.530] – Robert Newman
Administrative task, three hours. If any of you are looking at this and going, I really spend three hours doing this, then I’m going to definitely recommend you. I’m working on two different types of videos right now, which is where you… One video where you understand the value of your digital tools that you’re currently using and just use a logic formula in order to decide whether you keep them on or off or you move marketing, whatever. You just do have a mathematical formula that helps you do that. I learned it from Zig Zigler. Then another one to break down, which you should always have the answer to this question, how much do you make per hour? A lot of you are professional salespeople that are effectively commission only. That still doesn’t mean you shouldn’t. If you don’t know the answer of how many hours I worked last year and I made $80,000, gross or net, whatever the number is, you need to be able to take what you estimate your hours are and then break that into an hourly. Most professional real estate agents make well over $150 an hour. You just don’t. Some work less than others.
[00:27:08.250] – Robert Newman
But for the effort that you put in, most of you make over $150 an hour. That would mean that you’re spending $450 of your time in a three-hour period doing administrative tasks. Guess what, guys? For about $15, I can hire… That is, for those of you who are not following with the math, that’s 10% of the value of I can hire and do, I do this for me all the time, I can hire somebody to do all this admin stuff. I’ve got way more people than most other people do, but I also spend most of my time doing whatever the hell I want. I value that so much. Don’t let anybody tell you in this crazy commercial country that we live in what you should be doing with your time. You want to meditate, you want to play some games, you You want to see a movie, you want to spend some time with your kids, you want to go to church, whatever it is, you should be able to do that. Right now, I’m helping a person that’s newly trying to get sober, and I’m spending a ton of time with them every single day.
[00:28:14.100] – Robert Newman
And you know what? There’s nothing I’d rather be doing with my time. I’m not getting paid for it, but it’s more gratifying to my soul than just about any other activity that I take on. So how do I do that, though? I hire administrative assistance. Anything that can be done by me that is bookkeeping, that is social media posting, that is barring showing up physically for this show, everybody can do everything else. So administrative tasks, hire somebody, please don’t have three hours for this. If you do have three hours for it, look at it closely.
[00:28:52.710] – Jonathan Denwood
I would mix that up with the stuff in the morning where you’re doing outreach to existing Some clients you’ve worked with to keep that relationship going and see if they can refer some people to you, using Bombom to the people that have outreach to you through the website, blah, blah. There’s loads of stuff we’ve covered. The next one. I wouldn’t spend three hours listening to what Rob said. And then in the afternoon, you got appointments and networking Well, networking, I think you should be going, depending on where you are in your career, if you’re in the more build your book of business stage, You should be going to everything in your community that you can go to. And I mean is don’t stick your card in front of people. And if you got anybody, it needs It has to be a bit more sophisticated, but it’s really important to go to everything, build a calendar. Obviously, you could be doing… If you’re not doing presentations or you’re not showing people around properties, you should be going to stuff in your community to get yourself out there. You can’t be the invisible real estate agent in 2024.
[00:30:30.940] – Jonathan Denwood
That ain’t going to get you anywhere. What do you reckon, Rob?
[00:30:35.570] – Robert Newman
I reckon that I agree with this a thousand %. Let’s just say that many of you, if not most of you, either are not digital marketers don’t want to be digital marketers or only could see applying a little bit of your time to digital marketing. That’s a lot of real estate agents I talk to, John, maybe the vast majority. All right, so how do you generate your business? Networking is probably still one of the best possible ways to do it. Door knocking is not as effective as it used to be. It’s harder to catch people at home. I’m not saying it’s not effective. There’s a lot of people out there listening to this show that still do door knocking with a great deal of success. I would personally do circle prospecting. Just go out and see Ricky Karruth, just see what that is. If you don’t know, he’s got good programs. We can see people doing circle prospecting. But honestly, if I was a brand new real estate agent, here’s what I would do for sure. I would find every building, every master plan community in my area, and I would create a calendar where all the homeowners association meetings that were open to the public, which is most of them, happened.
[00:31:42.320] – Robert Newman
I created a calendar. My calendar would look like I’m going to go to five or six homeowners association events each and every single week because I would be meeting either people that are thinking of buying in that community, people that own in that community, all at those meetings. You You know and you glad-hand or you contribute to conversations that are happening about the community. You see what the tone of the conversations is, and you figure out if there’s something you can contribute, because if you can draw attention to yourself without a neon sign saying, I’m a realtor, give me your business. If you just go there and get to know people and be happy about that, you’re going to generate a lot of business. Sales is always about one thing, building relationships. That’s it. It’s about building relationships. To go to the place where the relationships are going to benefit you the best. That’s where people own the homes or want to buy the homes in places that you can service. Homeowners association meetings are very solid ways for you to get a business up and off the ground. Then there’s all sorts of other ways to do it, but that’s a rock solid one that will work throughout most of the US.
[00:32:51.970] – Robert Newman
All right. Number 5, review a day ahead, one hour. Go ahead, John.
[00:33:00.260] – Jonathan Denwood
One hour. I don’t think… But I do think there is a need of a period, probably not an hour, though, but there is a period to reflect on what’s happened. Because like I say, the days can merge into a week, a week merge into the next week, and then it’s next month. It You can all start to merge into a blur, as I say. And you can start to drift. You can start to lose focus in the merge, as I say. So it’s a good time to spend 20… What happened during the day? What could I’ve done better? What can I do better than tomorrow? Am I moving forward gradually? I don’t mean spectacularly. Am I keeping my costs under control? Have I got enough? Because I’m doing that, that gives me the opportunity to keep at it. And am I moving gradually forward. Is that making sense, Rob?
[00:34:20.370] – Robert Newman
Yeah. Reviewing your schedule one day ahead is always a good idea, especially if you’re a professional commission-only salesperson. Some of the schedule stuff I’m sharing with you is now my current role as a founder, which I moved into, have already paid the brutal price of working seven days a week and hundreds and hundreds of extra hours over and above and beyond working for other people. And now I’ve moved into a different part of my schedule in my life. You as a professional salesperson should always review the day ahead, always be mentally prepared and focused. Zig Ziglar and every single other person I’ve ever met, when they talk about schedule, they suggest that you review the schedule 10 minutes, 15 minutes in advance. I agree with this. It helps. It helps focus you. It helps if it’s the last thing that you think about before you go to sleep. It helps in the 10 minutes. Anthony Robin says the same thing. Pretty much every professional sales trainer will tell you, review your schedule for 10 minutes before you go to sleep because it prepares the subconscious mind for the events of the next day. That’s it.
[00:35:25.620] – Jonathan Denwood
I got to tell people, Rob, I do work seven days a week, but I don’t work seven days a week. And what I mean by that is I have a schedule and it has periods mapped out. But some afternoon I take a break, I take a couple of hours off. I’ve got it set up that I’ve got other people in my team that can take sales calls and I can clear off, and I do. But then I might be working all I might take all Sunday off. So when somebody says, I can say to them, I do work seven days a week, but in some ways, I don’t work seven days a week because if I want to take some time off, and Unless there’s a sales call or there’s a meeting, I’ve definitely got to be there. I’ve got everything a bit like you. I’ve got everything covered, if necessary. I do still do a lot of it because I think it’s important. So I have to keep a feel of things. It’s a very different knife style to somebody that’s employed 9:00 to 5:00, really, isn’t it?
[00:36:42.870] – Robert Newman
Yeah. Then, of course, if you are going to create a schedule, which for many, if not most of you, is a good idea. This is a very good idea. Oftentimes, the number one problem commission salespeople have is discipline. Discipline, structure, schedules. If you create something that you automatically do, whether it’s the most effective thing or not, then that’s the best schedule. If you can roll out the door and knock on some doors, even If your contact rate is low, but you can do the activity, then that’s what you need to do. You schedule the door knocking. The place of least resistance for what your skills and experience are is that you are a professional writer. Then, write emails in your lead generation door-knocking networking time. Stay within the activity when you’re creating a schedule. Please don’t go, Oh, I need to learn this, so I can’t make a schedule yet. No, don’t do that. Whoever you are, whatever you’ve got, you’ve got some experience. If all of us were in grade school and many of us sold chocolate to raise money, you know how to get out there in front of people and say, Hey, I’ve got something that I’d like to talk to you about.
[00:37:56.650] – Robert Newman
So go to parking lots, wherever the people are And that’s what every professional salesperson will ever do. All the nos and the resistance that you get when you go to a super duper high volume like I’m not interested in what you’ve got to talk about, the people that take the most rejection are the people that are trying to get valid signed inside parking lots. And how do I know that? I used to sell perfume in parking lots. So I know for sure what that experience is like. And it has mostly stayed the same over 20 or 30 years. You’ll get one yes for every 100 nos, and you’ll take those nos in person. But it’ll build your resistance so that when somebody says you have something you should talk to people about, you’re never going to be like, you’re not going to care all that much. You’re going to be able to do it. And that work leads you into quickly being able to do video, easily sitting down and doing podcasts, and quickly being on film. Because what are people going to do? Reject you, taking thousands upon thousands of rejections. It stops mattering as much.
[00:38:57.820] – Robert Newman
Tom Hopkins used to say, Go out, collect your nose. I love that about him. Collect those noses. Could you go out and get them right now? Get excited. Go out and collect your nose. I’ve trained hundreds of sales forces.
[00:39:11.270] – Jonathan Denwood
My rejection with my face has been a bit different. It’s just been a date rejection, so I’m used to it. I got the face for rejection, but I, Rob.
[00:39:23.310] – Robert Newman
Oh, my God, John. All right. English humor is coming to the floor again. All right, personal time. Whatever you do or don’t do with your schedule, ensure you have personal time. Personal time is family; it’s dinner, engaging in a favorite pastime. I think that we, as a country and people, get this all wrong. Personal time should also be expansive. Things that expand your mind, things that expand your soul, things that, really, really move the needle, such as time with family, actual play time with your kids, reading them a bedtime story, playing games with the family, playing games by yourself. That’s my opinion. Years and years of buying sincerely into the commercial garbage that we oftentimes are… I know professional real estate agents that make $50 million a year. There are not many of them.
[00:40:19.990] – Jonathan Denwood
It’s also linked to the networking side, to finish off is to help people. I think the two things, if you’re starting, really get a mentor, work for an experienced agent, be their buyer agent, do the open houses, and do everything you can for that experienced agent. And it’s the networking side and helping people and being as helpful as you can. And if people like you and they think you’ve helped them out, I think apart from the sociopaths out there, I think most people will try and help. How can we put you out with supplying some leads.
[00:41:05.680] – Robert Newman
Fair enough. Anyway, I say expansive time as part of your time. I think we’ve done a pretty good job of talking about the schedule. We certainly filled up the time. We’ve done 40 minutes on the subject. I hope all of you listening to the show will do us a favor and leave us some comments. I try to tackle this subject with integrity, and I know I no longer work a professional salesperson schedule. That was my hesitation, but I’ve certainly done plenty of it, so I can speak with a great deal of authority on the subject. Anyway, John, thanks for putting this together. I appreciate it. It was an exciting subject. It’s a departure from anything that we’ve done. I love it when you look around and say, We’ve never done this before. Let’s do it. It’s so cool. If people wanted to contact you, how would you have them do it?
[00:41:56.550] – Jonathan Denwood
I’ll go to the mail-right. Com website, look at what we offer, and then book a chat with me. It’s always informal. It’s not high-pressured in any way. I would love to speak to you and see if we’re a good fit, and see if Millright could help you out. Back over to you, Rob.
[00:42:17.500] – Robert Newman
A particular interest to all of you is if you have questions about building or leveraging WordPress. John is probably one of the country’s best about the general subject and what could or could not What have you done? So on and so forth. Those questions. I’m SEO. If you have something related to SEO, I’m probably the guy. We would be a good place to start if you want to talk to somebody about search engine optimization in any of its various forms. Go to inboundrem. Com, look up under my name or services, look at our case studies, get an example of our pricing, and then if you’re still interested, you can book an appointment with me, and we’ll talk about it. That’s it. Take us offline, John—43 minutes on the nose.
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Uncover the best real estate apps of 2024! Streamline your house-hunting process with these must-have mobile applications. Get started today.
Get ready to elevate your real estate experience with the hottest apps of 2024. Whether you’re a first-time buyer or a seasoned investor, these innovative tools will streamline your search and boost your success. Join us as we explore each app’s must-have features and benefits, helping you make informed decisions in today’s competitive market.
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It’s episode number 439. Me and my English bloke and I do the show together. We are- I’m in Molding.
We lost the European Cup.
No wonder you seem so grumpy.
All right, well- I’m not grumpy. I’m in Molding.
You’re in the morning, but that’s not grumpy. In English, saying that you’re sad is not the same as saying that you’re grumpy.
No, it isn’t. I’ve accepted it with the English team, but you always live in hope, don’t you?
Not as much as the people that follow the Red Sox, but okay. All right, here we go. Listen, it’s episode number 439. John and I are going to talk about real estate apps today and what we’re talking about, precisely because I was confused on this as I read the show notes, is we’re talking about apps that you’d put on your cell phone that make your life easier. That’s and some other apps, too, but that’s part of what we’re discussing is what can you install on your phone that will help you out a little bit in your day-to-day activities. All right, so without any further ado, we will introduce ourselves. John’s going to go first as he generally does. I’m going to give you guys a little bit of background. He is the founder of WP-Tonic, one of the country’s largest podcasts on WordPress. He’s the founder of Mailright, which is a company that builds a CRM and a real estate website for agents and does a lot of different things. I’ll let him explain that to you. He’s also just basically a serial entrepreneur. He’s been doing that for a long time, a former boxer.
I do believe you even have a military record, don’t you? No, I don’t. Okay, the one thing I got wrong.
Anyway, so- My father won the military cross.
There we go. I knew we talked about it at some point. So, John, take it away from there.
Oh, thanks. Like Rob said, I’m the founder of Melright, where we build fantastic-looking websites on WordPress, provide a CRM, and provide a way of getting leads using the power of Facebook. Back over to you, Rob.
Beautiful. My name is Robert Newman. I have really a sales and marketing geek since I was 17. I’m 54. And I’ve worked for a lot of big call centers. For 16 years now, I’ve worked in the real estate marketing industry, helping real estate agents get leads and make better websites and build content, stuff like that. But now I have a company that does that. We do inbound marketing, where you use attraction methods to get people to come to you, and you don’t chase them around, you own your marketing efforts. So without any further ado, we will jump into this real estate app subject. John will carry the load because I am always on a mission to delete apps from my phone. So I’m not the best guy to talk to, but whatever. Actually, there is… Now that I think about it, I might have one thing to add here. So, John carried away. You’ve got, I think, eight apps on here. Is that correct? That’s correct. Okay. So why don’t you jump into number one and tell us about it?
It’s Open Home Pro. Basically, they got a free version and also a paid version, which is 20 a month. It just helps you organize open viewings. You can put it on your iPhone, your Android, but you’ll probably use this on an iPad. And as they enter, instead of just a bit of paper and that, it asks their name, and you customize it, so it asks a few questions. And then you can download the list into your CRM, and you can keep in contact with those people, and you can add to your newsletter list It’s well worth it. I don’t want to point out at Mailright, we got a similar add-on to our CRM that does a similar thing, but we don’t provide an app at Melright. But our system will also work on an iPad and so all this. But if you’re just looking for this type of functionality to make your open houses more organized, I think it’s well worth having a look at, Rob.
The idea behind using a database management tool to do open houses, John and I have talked about this in other shows. So as the market gets harder and everything gets tougher, luxury, not luxury, whatever it is. You know what? Open house apps that collect information from people who are coming to see your open house, especially for those of you who put a lot of effort into an open house, just put out some food, and really prepare a house, like your game is top-notch and you spend a little money, that’s when you can say you need to sign in to see the house. Absolutely. Then you’re collecting leads and information from each and every single person that crosses the threshold. When they do, that information can be automatically downloaded into your database, which can then be worked by other systems that you have. I love the idea of it. This particular app locks you out at 25 leads and costs about $20 a month to do the paid version. The ratings are about four stars. It seems to be solid. It’s only for Apple. All right, so moving on. Number two, Reach. Reachtheapp. Com. I don’t even know what this one does, It’s a cool name though.
It’s a niche. Basically, if you want to do group texting and you want to utilize your phone number, the problem using CRMs, desktop CRMs, and it’s the same thing at Melright, I’m going to be totally upfront about this, is that if you use our CRM to send out text message campaigns, you can’t use your mobile number. You’re going to have to utilize a number that we provide. And it’s the same with, I would say, the majority. Follow Up Boss is the same. The only difference is with Follow Up Boss, they provide an app. And if you’re sending text messages through the app, you can then send group text messages through the Follow Up Boss app utilizing your own number. But it won’t be the large numbers because it’s got to be on your contact list on your phone. But if you’re just doing text messaging for 20, 30 people, this works. I couldn’t find the price on the website, actually. It might be free or they offer a free plan, but you will be able to, from your iPhone and your Android, I think, you will be able to send group text messaging with… When the person receives the message, it will be your phone number.
Beautiful. A couple of other things to mention to you guys. This particular app only works with the Apple email app. It does have about a 4.7 rating out of 4,000 people who’ve used it. That’s very high. I would be cautious in the way that you use such an app. I personally I’m not a fan of group text messages, and most people I know are not either. However, if you have a group of people that have signed up for something and you’re a real estate agent and you need to be efficient about your time, reach theapp. Com sounds like a great option to look at in order to communicate with groups, if you’re a team lead, if you’re a broker, then this is sounding better and better because now you can reach out to all the people. You can also get a free subscription to Slack, which does have a mobile app, and it will do much the same thing for you in terms of reaching your people, specifically where you’re a broker. I think targeted use and understanding what you’re going to use it for is very, very important with this app, but I think it’s super cool.
Great find, John. Let’s move on to the next one on the list, which is RoboKiller. Now, this one, John, I did know. I know it well. I’ve tried it. I actually do have some stuff to say about RoboKiller, but you start off first.
Yeah, Basically, what it does, I use a different service. I use a service called U-Mail. I’ve been using it for quite a while, but this thing looks like it does a similar job. Basically, we’re inundated with inbound calls, basically. I’m pretty open with my mobile number. To be truthful, I don’t answer the phone if it’s not on my contact list. If the person can’t be bothered to leave a voice message and it’s not on my contact list, I’m probably not going to respond to it because I must get about 10 to 15 calls a day. But that’s with you, But U-Mail, and I think Robot killer does the same. If they’re on a real spam list, it will block it completely, or if it hasn’t made its mind up, it will highlight it for me. And there’s all sorts of other things that these type of apps can do for you? It just helps you manage because most real estate agents, because they got to be pretty open with their details. So They’re all out there. They get in the date with calls as well.
Copy you. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, I did find RoboKiller when I did use it to be sufficient. But unfortunately for everybody that’s out there, I was already using a service called TruCaller. What I did when I downloaded RoboKiller is I was just trying to compare RoboKiller versus TruCaller. In the end, I decided that TruCaller was much more efficient and much less expensive. Now, that doesn’t mean that it’s going to service your needs. Robocaller was sufficient. It did do the job. I found it to provide value for the money that they charged. I just didn’t find it to be the best type of these apps, in my opinion. Truecaller is more of a community of people, about a million users that seem to be pretty proactive in taking numbers. Whoever answers a call, you leave a note, and then from that point forward, all other people taking calls from that number see the documentation on the number. I get off on details like that, like mass culture, user-based monitoring and many people. Robocaller is not that. So TruCaller won the fight for me, but they do much the same thing, block spam numbers, blah, blah, blah.
And John, I get about, on average, 20 to 30 calls a day. So I get a lot.
Yeah, I get about 15 to 20. It’s terrible, isn’t it? But it is what it is, isn’t it?
Yeah. And you know what the funny thing is, John? I doubt that we compare to aI’m a real estate agent, you and I.
I would imagine I get a lot more.
Yeah, me too. All right, so actually, we’re going to go to a break here, I imagine. No, we’re going to go to a break a little bit early before we do our next review. When we come back, we’re going to jump into the remaining four on our list, which is CapCut Grammarly, Epo, CAM, and repurpose. Io. Some of these I know what they do, some of them I don’t. John will help us all out as we explore some really great real estate apps for you to use in 2024. We’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 439 of The MailRight Show. Today, we are discussing what we feel or actually what John feels, and I’m adding some thoughts to what the best real estate apps are of 2024 that you might consider using as a real estate agent. So far, we’ve covered some apps that will help you screen scam calls. We’ve covered apps that help you do group text messaging. What was the first one, John?
It was Open Home Pro.
Then one that will do an open house list for you, which I thought was super cool, which is funny that I forgot it and already blanked it out of my mind, but I did really like it. All right, so Capcut, we’re on the number 4 on our list, which you can see in the notes. You can go to mail- Cappcut. Com, or you can go to Facebook and do mail-write as a search. If for some reason you just love the sound of my voice, you can also do Facebook Inbound R-E-M. I usually do post the shows on a video format. All right, Capcut. Com. Tell us a little bit about… This looks really interesting. All right, John, have you used this?
I had a little play with it. It’s pretty cool. There’s a number of these. Basically, it helps you edit videos on your mobile phone, iPhone, Android. But they also got a desktop. The free version is pretty feature-rich, and it’s got a really nice modern interface. I looked at the reviews and I downloaded the free version. I had a quick play with it. I was quite impressed with it, actually. And the pro version, it’s I think it’s about $10 a month, so it’s about $120 a year. But you can do a hell of a lot with just the free version. I think having it on the phone, it just helped agents knock out more video out on social media and get them doing what we’ve been preaching for the last 2-3 years, isn’t it?
Yeah. Very briefly, everybody who’s listening to the show, this would be the tool that I would look at to help create interesting reels. Most of the examples that I’m looking at on the pages for video are all under a minute and length. They’re all using probably the free features, and they’re doing overlays, changing your hair, wear, slow-mo, face alterations. That’s what I’m seeing. And all of these things can be useful if you have some time to kill. For those of you to play into the app that we had above the list, here’s what my idea would be for that handful of you who are still in the real estate office waiting for customers to walk through. I’ve been discovering, John, on some of my calls that even veteran real estate agents are going back to stuff they haven’t done in years because a lot of lead generation right now is not working the same way it was. People have canceled budgets. So my more determined clients, the people that are calling me, they’re going straight back on the office and being on the floor and seeing if walk-ins come in. While you’re there and if you’re doing open houses, if you’ve got anything that you’re supposed to be doing for your real estate career, you’re out the door, you’re doing the gig, you might think about taking this app with you and just creating a little video where you’re sitting on the porch somewhere and then playing around with it.
Why not? Getting used to something like this can make you money in the long run, certainly can help you build an audience. Why not kill two birds with one stone? That’s my advice for this particular app. This is an app that we’ve talked about before. Number 5 that John and I both use incessantly, which is probably why it keeps making it onto his lists. Grammarly. Tell us about your perspective on this.
Grammarly and Canva are the two that I’d always recommend to any agent. I just use it all the time. I’ve been quite frank, I’ve got a bit of dyslexia. So it just really helps with my grammar and keeping my spelling reasonably good. And when I pay annually, when it comes up, I just pay it. And it’s in those half a dozen subscriptions. I’m a big WordPress person, so I don’t have too many SaaS-based subscription products that I’m using, about half a dozen at most, and this is one of them, and I just pay it.
I use it as well. Pay for the team feature from my team. Cost me $150 a month. Probably saved me more money, more trouble, more hassle than any other app. The very few times that I have team members write stuff that clients kick back, we almost always end up discovering that they didn’t run their content through the Grammarly app. It’s almost always what the problem in the process. As a company that does this work in Mastron, and I know you know this, which is why you’re laughing, but the audience might not. We have a process. We have a really refined process. Somebody writes it, you usually have a human being that is not that person to look at it. Then the writer, before they even give it to the person to look at it, they’re supposed to have submitted it through Grammarly, our editor, effectively. And the only time that we get content complaints is when people really massively dropped the ball because not only did the person that read it, the second person, they didn’t catch it, but usually the writer didn’t put it through Grammarly. And then somehow it makes it to a human being who is our customer.
And then, of course, you can imagine the frustration from the leadership level. It’s like, well, but anyway, Grammarly is an amazing tool.
I can imagine what your side of, yeah, I can. Shall we go on to the next one before we thought in it?
Yeah, absolutely. Number six, ladies and gentlemen, and this is a relevant thing to name an app, EpoCam. Epocam.
Okay? That’s right. Basically, this works on a PC. I think on the Mac side of it, with the latest versions of the iPhone, it does this. You can do this anyway. Basically, it turns your Android device or your iPhone on a… Well, I think it’s probably only the iPhone. You’re on a PC, you can turn your iPhone into a webcam.
It is only the iPhone.
You can turn it into a webcam and If you’ve got one of the latest iPhone, they got amazing video camera technology, and using this product, you can turn it into a webcam.
Yeah. Number one, it’s very clever. Number Number two, it’s an easy way for many of you who have already jumped and made the investment on it. It’s basically saving you about $180 for a high-quality video cam. Number two, not only is it saving you that money, my guess, I may not be correct because I’m not an expert on cameras. My guess that for the most part, for 80-90% of you, the Apple phone that you have is already going to be a better video cam than anything that you either have or would buy. And so better, cheaper, and probably all you need is a mount on your computer screen. And of course, because 80% of not only phone installs are Apple, but about 98% of realtors carry apples. It’s an Apple product. All right, we’re done with EpoCam. We’re going to go on to If I can get the next one. John, what’s the next one on the list? I’m having a hard time. Repurpose. Repurpose. Okay.
Tell us about that one. Well, basically, it helps you edit photos, but one of the things it helps with, especially the app version, I think they got a desktop as well. But if you import photos in a number of these social media platforms, one that comes to mind is Instagram, and then you try and export the photo, it will have a bloody watermark on it. That really can drive you bonkers. But if you utilize this response, one of the things it does, it will remove the watermark so you can use it on other social media platforms.
Well, that’s super cool. It’s an interesting app. I don’t really have much to add. That’s a very unique, unusual application.
It’s a small thing, but if you’re doing a lot of social media, and you should be, in my opinion, if you’re a real estate agent, it can just drive you bonkers, basically.
Okay. I’m going to throw in a spur of the moment.
I thought you would.
Post. And I’m not sure that they have a phone app or not, so it may or may not fit directly inside of the thing that we’re talking about. But I have been testing on and off again, various versions of something called Hero Post. It’s just a single developer, and it’s slowly building into a team of what is basically a social media posting tool. The difference between it and other tools is they’re making a much bigger stab at a tool that works with a much larger base of social media companies. They’ve also seemed to be slowly but surely creating a very solid platform. Now, there’s problems with it. Their original model was a one-price-fits-all. They deleted my membership at some point when they upgraded the service, so I might have to look at buying it again. And now they’ve changed the price to $98 a month and 696 a year. Obviously, the one price fits all on Hero Post wasn’t really working, which I don’t think that they realized because I’m not sure they intended to continuously develop the tool. But my team, the people that I know that are using it, I’ve tried countless tools.
They seem to be on to something. They seem to have a better understanding of what you’re trying to do with social media. There’s been so many guys out there that have created this one-size-fits-all social media posting tool, and nobody’s licked it, which is why people keep developing it. It’s Hootsuite, and then there’s others. What we want and what we need is a simple tool to post to all social sites. That’s a big ask, actually, from the development side.
Yeah, and also the social media platforms, that’s the last thing that they want you do. So they’re always changing things to make it difficult for these type of platforms.
True. But anyway, that’s something I have my eye on. I’m not really at a place where I’m necessarily making it a recommendation, but for those of you who are curious, that’s something I’ve got my eyes on. One last thing just in terms of bonus content, as far as I’m concerned, I’m not an early adopter for threads or mastodon. I’m not I’m sure that those people listening to the show would be big Twitter users or X users or things like that. But I do have 30 years of experience as a business owner, and here’s my thoughts. I would be cautious to be an early adapter unless you’ve got a massive audience and you’ve got serious problems with the founder, the person who now owns Twitter, which is perfectly reasonable if you do, then definitely look at early adopting. But if that doesn’t fit your profile, and it won’t, most real estate agents are not too active on Twitter. I’m just going to say I caution slowness in the adoption of new platforms. I am already overwhelmed myself as a business I don’t know with how many places I can or should place content. I do not recommend anybody complicate their lives.
I just wanted to throw that in as a piece of bonus content.
I agree with it. I’m not a great fan of Elon, but unless I guess, obviously, things can change, I’m not going to stop using Twitter. If I canceled every service or any business service, linked because I didn’t like the person, I wouldn’t be able to use anything. So this canceled culture, obviously, if they’re a neo-Nazi, Mr. Musk I’m not a fan of, but there we go. Shall we go on to the last one, which is-Is there another one?
I thought we were done. I’m sorry.
Number eight.
I’m sorry, John. What’s number eight?
It’s Mall IQ.
Take us away, man. I’m sorry. I thought we were done. That was my bad.
Basically, this is the most used. Probably it’s going to save you a ton of agro. Obviously, you’re a real estate agent and you’re going to different Homes, you can claim the gas for that as a business expense, but you’re not allowed to claim on your taxes non-business journeys. Now, end of year, if you’re doing your books yourself or you’ve got a bookkeeper, if you can’t provide records, they’re just going to do a rough calculation. And then If the internal revenue does audit, they will make your life a misery. That’s the first thing they aim at. If you’re a real estate agent, they will query your gas expenses, and they will drive you potty. With this, every journey, it works with the same technology as these insurance companies when they give you a lesser quote, if you have the app, it tracks. And at the end of each journey, ask you, Is this a business or a personal journey? You just say yes. And then at the end of the year, you can print all the business journeys out. It’s all out there. When the internal revenue trying to spoil your birthday, your bookkeeper can just show them and they’re going to back off, basically.
That is in the case of being To be honest, I can see many, many uses such as a proactive accounting edge of miles. There’s Sharing Miles as reimbursement from work, which is a big one that I see the people doing here, in terms of looking at the app website. I love all that. It’s got 80,000 five-star reviews. It’s probably a pretty simple app. But at the same time, for those of you, we are in a profession of driving around. This seems like it might take a very complicated, frustrating, and perhaps thing you don’t deal with, and then make it, lock it away.
I’m not trying to be… Have you ever been audited by the internal revenue?
Not technically.
No, I haven’t. But in the UK, I was because I was in a couple of cash businesses and the UK version. I didn’t get in any trouble because I was a straight person. But it was still a freaking nightmare. They ask the questions of endless, endless, infinite, endless questions, and this will save you a ton of that growth.
Right, which is understandable because if you do get audited, the idea is that you do have to account for every single detail, every single penny. If you get audited, their job is to catch you with things. In the absence of not knowing, they charge you the maximum. That I know not because I’ve technically been audited but because I’ve dealt with the IRS in the sense of having to ask questions. I have also gone through company audits, where I’ve been an officer of a company, and we have been audited by either an internal company that we hired to audit us or, worse, the state or federal organizations. And those guys are never fun. They’re never organized. You think they would be. They never are. They just make your life as hard as they possibly can, and they can’t.
Everything is on you. Yeah, and they can’t. And their answer is, It’s up to you, or we can find you.
Exactly.
That’s their answer for everything.
For every single damn thing. Correct. That’s what I experienced as a company officer. It’s like your people have to account for this. And it’s like, Okay, what if they don’t have it? Well, that’s exactly what you said. Well, we’ll find you the maximum. For me, that was always the, Oh, okay. Great. No, there is no room for debate. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we have officially come to the end of the show. John, I want to thank you, as always, for coming up with these lists and figuring out what is helpful for our clients. This MyliQ thing is incredible. I hope some people get some use from this or one of the other apps on our list.
I don’t think it was a bad list. I think some of this stuff is quite useful.
I do. I do. I hope that you all agree. But you know what, John and I, aren’t the people in the car driving all day long. We’re stinky little digital entrepreneurs who get to stay in our house most of the time. So leave us some thoughts, man. Go to his Facebook page, go to my Facebook page.
Could you leave us some thoughts, folks? I’ve been trying to encourage you. People are listening to this, but we hardly get any feedback. Don’t you like us? Especially give Rob some input. Hit his Facebook group, and give him feedback and questions you want us to answer. Why don’t you join this live? You can go to the Mailright YouTube channel or the Mailright Facebook page, and you can ask any questions and ask them live. Yeah. There we go.
You really can. John pays attention to that stuff. I’ve played around with life, but not for Mailright. It isn’t very easy. But, ladies and gentlemen, we would love to hear from you. We’d love to get to a point where we have a collaborative show. We want you to be our guest star, rock star. And so, if any of you are looking to promote your real estate businesses, we do, believe it or not, have an audience of somewhere between 2,000 and 4,000 people every single month for this podcast. It’s a great way to get in front of other real estate agents. John and I would like to hear from you. So that’s it. Thanks. Until next time. Oh, wait. I’m so sorry. John, if somebody wanted to learn more about you, call you, set an appointment with you, and so on, how would you like them to do that?
I’ll just go to the Mail-right.com website and have a look. Then, you can book a chat with either Adam or me. It doesn’t have to be about Mel Wright. If you have any questions, you want some quick advice, we’re more than happy. I think Rob’s the same. Go over to Rob’s website as well and have a look around.
That would be inboundrem. Com. John is exactly right about everything you said. With that, I think you can sign us off. Thank you so much, John. I appreciate it.
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We discuss with our special guest Greg McDaniels the importance of quality photography connected to being a successful real estate Read more
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Maximize your real estate experience with Zillow Premier & Flex—everything you need to know – right at your fingertips.
In this informative show, we delve into the essential details of Zillow Premier and Flex services, exploring how they can elevate your real estate experience. Discover key features, benefits, and tips on leveraging these tools effectively to achieve your property goals. Stay ahead in the competitive market with this insightful guide.
#1 – The Basic outline of Zillow Premier Agent
#2 – Zillow Premier Agent vs. Zillow Flex
#3 – Zillow Premier Agent and Zillow Flex key strengths and weaknesses?
#4 – Zillow Flex Payment Structure Explained
Okay, welcome back to the Mail-Right Show, ladies and gentlemen.
Do you count down and go into it, can you?
Okay. I got to reset. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mailright Show. It’s episode number 438. Today, we will discuss Everybody’s favorite lead generation providers, Zillow Premier and Flex. We will do our best to tell you what you need. We’re going to get into this. I want to do a preamble to the show, but before I do, I have my co-host who chose the subject today. Indeed, something that we should talk about, something I usually loathe talking about. But before I get into my end of that, John, why don’t you go ahead and… You know what? I’d like you to do two things. I would like you to introduce yourself, and I have yet to ask him this question offline. Two, I would like you to explain to me and everybody else why you chose this as the subject for today’s show.
Well, to start with your question, my feelings are very similar to yours, but we haven’t discussed it for a long time. Because we’ve got certain reservations about Zillow and these two offerings, they are still producing tons of leads. I am curious to know if this is still accurate. Last year, 90 million people went to the Zillow website, and I don’t know how many actual leads they generated through these two particular offerings. I don’t know if that data is publicly available. I would imagine not. But they are a reality, and they’re a big reality in the real estate space, even though I’ve got stronger problems with them. So that’s it. And I am the founder of Melright. We’re a platform. We build great-looking websites on WordPress at affordable prices. Plus, we have a CRM and many other fantastic digital tools in one affordable platform. Back over to you, Rob.
All right. My name is Robert Newman. For those who do not know, I’m the founder of a real estate marketing company called InboundREM. We focus on inbound marketing methods like SEO, things like that story lead attraction conversion methodologies. We’re the only people in the US who are currently focused on inbound and real estate, specifically. You can check out more at inboundrem. Com, if you so choose. I have a lot of reservations about Zillow, mainly because of Richard Barton, who is the founder of not only Zillow but also Expedia and Nextdoor, and quite a few more internet companies than most people realize. Even I only realized some of what he had his hands in. Artie, for those who are into art, is also the founder and creator of that. He tends to take really broad, antiquated industries and bring them all online. In the process, he makes it extremely difficult for smaller companies to compete. In a way, you have to admire his vision. But if you’re in the real estate industry and you are buying Zillow leads, you are funding your competition at this point. Undoubtedly, he intended to consolidate as he has already done for Expedia.
I don’t care what you hear anybody say; look at the past logic. This is just my opinion. I don’t have any insider knowledge. I have yet to talk to Richard Barton. Look at what he did at Xpedia, and then look at what he’s doing with Zillow. They follow identical business growth timelines at Expedia. They cried all the way up to the heavens that they would never become a travel agency. Of course, they actually did. And he’s been saying the same thing with Zillow, and of course, they are actually a real estate company. They’re competing against all of you. This is not your friend. And when they really consolidate their operations, my opinion, Union is, is that they are going to have their Zillow teams get the vast majority of the best leads, sell all of you the less qualified leads, or certainly prioritize their salespeople in some way, shape or form, take a healthy percentage for doing this and call it a day. When you buy from them, and everybody always says, Oh, I know this, I know this, I know this, but it’s been getting worse and worse. We’re going to highlight the programs.
They do sell a good lead. I won’t misrepresent, but that’s my qualifier to even get into this subject with John and talk about it. I firmly believe that every person who buys a lead, a single lead from Zillow, is funding one of their own strongest, best-backed competitors and that this is going to become a bigger and bigger problem for you over time, and everybody is just ignoring it, thinking that, well, it’s not today’s problem. That’s what I have to say about that. John, do you have anything you’d like to add?
No, I basically agree with everything you outlined. It’s quite a bizarre situation that many agents decide to do business with an organization that has made it clear that its final destination is to get rid of agents to some extent.
Yeah. I think that it’s going to be… The more money that we give Zillow, the better of a platform they create, but the harder it is for the individual agent to do business without them. Zillow is training these new agents, and now they’re effectively becoming agents who only know how to work with Zillow leads.
I think their main problem is Google, because they have quite a bit of power in the real estate industry. But compared to Google, their memo they’re nothing. They’re a flee on the back of Google, aren’t they?
Yeah, you know I can’t agree more with that. That is why we keep talking about HyperLocal. Hyperlocal is the solution to this. Google is a friendlier company and they’re not trying to put real estate agents out of business. Whereas Zillow, you cannot say the same. Without any further ado, we’re going to get into what we are going to discuss today is the Zillow, the basic outline. Here’s the four quadrants that we have ready to queue up and talk to everybody about. The basic outline of Zillow Premier Agent, Zillow Premier Agent versus Zillow Flex, Zillow Premier Agent and Zillow Flex: Key strengths and weaknesses, and the Zillow Flex Payment Structure Explained. John has done a very good job at adding some links in the show notes. For those of you who are interested in finding out where the source or some of our information is, please go to the MailRight website or the MailRight Facebook page and take a look at it. I will probably be posting forwarding this show into a private Facebook group and maybe my public Facebook page. I am not as proactive as John, so if you really want to get into the details of the show, definitely look on the MailRight site First.
Without further ado, John, why don’t you go ahead and jump into this? Because I didn’t do all the research that you did.
Well, Premier Agent is their main platform. It’s what they built the business on. Basically, they’re selling leads, folks. People go to the Zillow website to do searches, pop-ups, sidebar advertising. There’s advertising all over the website, and they want to get your name, an email, and phone number. And they… Certain properties, one of the things that really annoys a lot of agencies, they show a property, they have an agent underneath. That agent isn’t representing the seller or buyer. It can be somebody that has no real connection to the property, and they influence people to presume differently. Then that lead is sold to a group of agents, and basically, it’s computerized. They look at different metrics. How quickly does the agent respond to the initial lead? They look at a multiple of inputs in deciding on a rotation basis, who’s going to get the lead in a Pacific area. The more competitive the territory, i. E. Urbanize city, not only will the cost per lead go up considerably, but the rotation, the quality of lead you obtain and the rotation basis will increase. And the cost, who knows? Because that really depends on where you are based.
Are you based in Los Angeles? Are you based in Las Vegas? Are you based in Florida? Or you’re based in some small town in Kansas? It really depends on where you are. So that is the basic outline. Would you agree with that, Robert?
Yeah. Well, yes. And you know what? Just in the brief time you’ve been talking, I managed to read and update my knowledge on the Zillowlex versus Zillowpremier. I’ve realized that they renamed one of these plans, or at least since the last time I looked at it, Zillowlex. Zillowlex is competing with a division of realtor. Com, which we used to be called Opsity, and for all I know, they’ve changed it, but it’s basically performance pay and plan. Anyway, and Premier is their standard advertising plan, which While I didn’t know the brand names, John, I can certainly talk about the hundreds, if not thousands of agents that I’ve talked to that have been using that plan or have used it in the past or will use it in the future. Premier Agent It usually comes down to what I’ve found in terms of pricing. It is a price on demand program. In other words, pricing is not flat. If they have open zip codes and available leads, they will charge you maybe as little as $600 a But if they have a lot of agents in line for a single zip code, I’ve heard of that price going up to upwards of $3,000 per zip code or per area, and no guarantee that you’re not going to get competition.
The thing about Premier that I’ve understood is that over the years, they’ve been trying to ramp up the quality of the leads in terms of having a person call and verify that it is really a lead because needless to say, agents were… It used to be incredibly irate when somebody would call to, let’s say, ask them to rent a home, and you just spent $600 to get that person to call you in the first place. There’s been a lot of changes with Zillow Premier. Like any other lead generation program, a lot of what is going to be your results, the people listening to the show, is going to be based on how many people are using them in your area. Zillow is one of the least friendly companies when it comes to revealing any information about If you’re trying to research and say, All right, I, as a broker or an agent, would like to make an educated decision about whether or not I use these guys as a lead source, and let’s say they quote you $3,000 a month for your zip code that you’re interested in, that’s a lot of money. I don’t care who you are, what agent you are.
That’s a lot of money. So now you got to… Then you ask the question, Well, how many other people are using it? They will never tell you.
No, never.
You absolutely do Now, you just have to take the plunge. Some people will be successful and some people won’t. My advice for Zillow with higher priced zip codes, and you’re an agent with no sales experience, is probably going to be to avoid them. Not because they couldn’t be successful, but because you will get limited times at bat, you need to bleed in practice as opposed to die in war with these guys. You can’t spend that much money on any lead program unless it’s going to be like a WALOPO or somebody who’s going to give you a 100 leads. So you get 100 at bats, and you get to get the marbles out of your mouth and basically get better at lead response with small leads that are not… You have more at Bats. Some of them won’t be any good, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t get to try your scripts and your practices on people who are really contacting you through a lead generation source. Zillow, you might get eight at Bats.
I think you’ve touched. You really You really got to be on top of your game on your response. When that comes through the app, you got to respond and win up the prospect. You got to be on the top of your game, and you got to have your scripts practiced, and you got to be on your top game, because otherwise… And to be fair to them, if you don’t respond and you haven’t polished your scripts, they’re going to probably reduce the amount of leads they’re sending your way as well. So you got to really- You’ll get kicked out of the flex program, but we’re going to talk about that in a second when we come back from break.
Ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to go to break really quick. Once we do, when we come back, we’re going to quickly compare Zillowlex versus Zillow Premiere, and then we’re going to cover the last remaining topics, and we’ll be much faster about it. Super sorry to both John and the audience for the preamble. I believe very strongly in this. I can’t do a show without saying it. That’s all I got. We’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, Ladies and gentlemen to episode number 438 of the MailRight Show. Today, we’re discussing Zillow Premier and Flex. These are two paid lead advertising programs that you can find through Zillow. We’ve We’ve covered the basics and maybe even not the basics of the Zillow Premier program. Coming back from break, we’re going to start off by comparing Premier Agent with Zillow Flex, and I’m going to leverage my amazing co-host and say, John, why don’t you start us off with what you think the… Give us a versus in your head about these two programs.
Yeah, the Flex program is invite only. There is no upfront fees. The bad news is if If you sell a property or there’s a commission, they want 35% of it. There’s two methodologies. They monitor you, they will ring you up. There’s a app, a specific app that you got to fill in all the details of the conversations you’ve had, how are things progressing. Periodically, one of Their team will look over it, contact you, confirm. I think you get a couple of options about how you pay. It can either go through the title company or you can do it by sending them a check. If you try and get out of it, they will pursue you to hell. They will not mess around. So don’t think you can mess them around because that ain’t going to work. And like I would say it’s invite only. You got to be a top-tier performer in their eyes to be the invite. You got to have some credibility with them. You really got to make your decision because they want 35%. It is going to be the lead. Quality, in my opinion, is going to be of a different level to Zillow Premier.
But I say, you pay for that. I don’t think it’s worthwhile. I think if you’re that experienced type agent with a power team or your small brokerage with a power team, I think you should be looking at other methodologies. I would look at Google Local Service Ads, or I’ll look at Facebook, or I look at anything. It’s not yourself, but you’re an adult. You got to make your choice, haven’t you, Robert?
Yeah. Here’s my overall thoughts, like vast. John was kind enough, and I really strongly, I’m going to tell you all this. After looking at the material that John provided, John found a really excellent Reddit thread on the subject of flex. Blissfully, I’m a very fast reader, so I’ve read most of that thread, John, I can tell you that it was a really great find because it talks in very… It’s a realtor, number one on the thread. It’s a new realtor, a husband and wife team, and we’re comparing Premier through flex. Well, I’m a lifetime marketer, and generally speaking, as a lifetime marketer, and most of you will intuit this, you always want to own your lead source. To the best of your ability, you want to own your lead source. Now, there is no such thing for realtors, but Google is a better option because they don’t take a flat percentage of your business. As a matter of fact, they don’t even come close. The cost of a Google lead currently hovers at about 3% of the cost of a Zillow lead. Or for those of you who are not great at math, that’s 97% better on the price.
You’re talking about, and that’s a paid lead, that’s through their LSAs, that’s through hyper local that you pay an ad for. They’re charging $45 to $100 not charging you any closing percentage. Zillowlex changed their rules, and they will charge you upwards of 40%, is what the number is, according to the Reddit thread. They increased it to 40, have they? That’s what the Reddit thread said. I don’t know this to be true, ladies and gentlemen. I have only read it on this thread, but it’s a realtor saying that they raised the price with a comment on homes above $300,000, which was a big price for their market at that time. So the bigger the deal, the bigger the percentage, plus that particular realtor had a 50/50 split with their broker, meaning that they had to go… They were basically losing 60 to 80% of their income and keep them 20 to have their lead source. Now, I just want to say between Premier and Flex, the sad news is that for brand new realtors, the only advantage My advantage for using Flex is if you’re young, your expenses are low, maybe you’re directly out of college, and you’re trying to learn real estate, and you’re driven, determined, and anxious to learn a career, then I think actually Flex is an amazing opportunity for you.
You are effectively, yes, you’ll give up your income in a very big margin. But guess what, ladies and gentlemen, it doesn’t freaking matter if you don’t have the skills. You’ll learn the skills. The program through Zillow will help you teach you the skills. Hopefully, your broker, if they’re taking a 50% cut, I hope they’re teaching is something. If they’re not, you need to change the broker’s stat because you should be giving them that income to learn their processes, their operations, how their transaction coordinator handles the deal, what you say at open houses, and what you say when you’re on the phone with the lead. All those things are institutional knowledge that somebody paid a dear price to learn. If they’re going to teach it to you, they have every right to charge you a percentage, in my opinion, and a significant one. However, if you know all those things, guess what, guys? If you’re listening to this show, there are a lot of veteran agents who are laughing because you know you’d never, ever use flex in this or any other universe. You might use Premiere because you’re willing to pay if the is good enough and your conversion rate is high enough.
For you, that person listening to the show Zillow Premier might be good. Now, I will end this by saying the comparison is usually super simple. The problem for all of you is that Zillow still needs to lower its prices, and the market has become significantly more challenging than it was two years ago. If you weren’t making a big profit in buying leads, you’d lose your hat right now. You are just going to get crushed. Many of you are getting crushed. I know because I’m getting the calls. That is also the difference between owning a thing and leasing a thing. When you own a thing, which is what John and I both counsel to you, when the industry gets hard like this, even if you fired us, I want to be really clear: even if you stopped paying us, you still own the platform, the platform might generate you a minimal amount of leads, but that’s whatever. If it was one that is a million times better than Zillow, who would give it? But I’ll give you none while you’re waiting for the market to change. That’s my comparison against the two. Would you happen to have anything else that you want to add now that I’ve said my bit, or should we go on to…
Or did we? How do you cover the strengths and weaknesses?
I think we have, don’t we? I think we can wrap it up. I totally agree with what you just said, basically. I think there are specific scenarios, certain situations, and agents. With the flex, it’s really just a rename or premiere. It’s another layer of premier aimed at brokers. They choose a broker; the broker gets his cut. If you’re that agent, you can stomach it, and you’re only going to make 20%, probably. If you’re not that young, inexperienced, or just an inexperienced agent with that particular brokerage, I don’t think it’s worth getting involved in that in any shape or form. But that’s just my personal opinion, Rob.
Yeah, if you’re an agent bouncing around, flex is… I’m going to guess. This is just a guess, but I only get a few super veteran agents even talking about the opposite of your flex. I get it’s like the red agents you love discussing. People in their first year, like one through year five, all of these discount systems like Zillowlex and Opcity, blah, blah, blah, blah, they’re all worth considering. Anything where anybody’s teaching you with more significant support, giving you customers to get in front of. All of that is an excellent way to get your experience in. I might do that if I were getting into real estate, do a year working these paid leads because, effectively, I’m being told what to do and where to go, and the vast majority of the work is done for me because I hate to break it to everybody. But getting your customers is about 50% of your real estate business or more. After that, it comes down to selling the home and getting the transaction. Those are very big. This is part of the pie, too. But one of the hardest things is finding a new supply of fresh clients month in and month out so that you can make a very good living.
The lower your marketplace’s price point, the more customers you have to find. Louisiana, West Virginia, you guys need 30, 40, 50 deals a year to make significant income. The rest of the country is more dramatic than that, but those places certainly are. Listen, everybody, we’ll end the show a few minutes early today because the subject was pretty cut and dry. I’m just going to say that for those of you who heeded my preamble at the beginning, Premier will give you a good lead. It’ll give you a good buyer’s lead, and it’ll give you a so-so seller’s lead. If you have a budget and you’re looking to spend it someplace, I suppose you could spend it here. I don’t really recommend it unless you just absolutely have to have leads for a team or something like that. There’s a very limited number of case studies in which I would say you’d be better served to use local service ads and Google advertising and drive it into your own website. Your conversion rates will be better, but for those of you who are determined, you could build in internal systems similar to Zillow’s and own the whole process from start to finish. Any determined agent or broker would be better served doing that.
That’s what I’ve got to say.
That sounds great to me. Can I wrap it up now, Rob?
Okay. Thank you so much for tuning into the show, Jon; if you would like to have people reach out to you or find you somewhere, ask you some questions, or compare the MailRight system versus Zillow, Premiere, or Flex, how would you like them to reach out to you?
Thanks for that, Rob. It’s basically really simple. Just go over to the mail-right. com and have a look around the website. You’ll be able to book a free chat with me. If you have any questions or need any quick advice, I’ll be more than happy to have a chat with you. Back over to you, Rob.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to contact me or find out how InboundREM compares against Zillow or Flex, you can go to inboundREM. Com, look at my services or About pages. There are contact forms on both. You can get into my calendar directly, or you can talk to one of my team members. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we so much appreciate you tuning into the show. Like us, wherever you find us, share with us with other people who you think are new agents in the industry. It is essential that you all understand that new agents fuel many veteran agents’ worst problems in the real estate industry. Please share this show with those that you think might get some value from it. It will impact you well over time. And with that, sir, take us offline.
We discuss with our special guest Greg McDaniels the importance of quality photography connected to being a successful real estate Read more
Agents need to do more than blogging to get results in 2016. We discuss this during this show with our two Read more
Greg McDaniel literally began his career at his father’s knee. It would not be an exaggeration to say he has Read more
Personal agent photography is really important but usually semi-forgotten. We have a great guest "Preston Zeller" on the show who recently Read more
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Looking for better real estate leads in 2024? Video is the answer! Unleash the power of video marketing to capture high-quality prospects and drive growth.
Unlock the secrets to generating high-quality real estate leads in 2024 by leveraging the power of video marketing. Discover how incorporating video into your strategy can revolutionize your lead generation efforts and drive unparalleled growth for your business. Take advantage of this game-changing opportunity! Watch our show now to learn why video is essential for success in the real estate industry.
#1—What are some of the key things that agents need to know about using video effectively to get quality leads in 2024?
#2—What are some of the best video production tools that agents should look at in 2024
– a – Canva
– b – Runway
– c – Descript
– d – DaVinci Resolve or iMovie
#3— What are 2 to 3 types of videos work well in generating quality leads?
#4 – How will AI change video in the next 18 months?
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mail-Right Show podcast. Today, minus my technical difficulties, of which there have been many, we are going to talk about video, which is funny because I couldn’t get my video working correctly today. So I’m finding it very ironic. But today’s specific focus is whether you want more quality leads than you need to use video. Something that John and I just keep banging the drum away on because, honestly, it is if there is a secret sauce It’s lead generation; I think that we’re both in the same camp where we believe that you have to use video. Now, John, having said all that, before we go any further, I’m sure people are wondering why an English bloke and an American dude why are we going to listen to these guys? Why don’t you go ahead and introduce everybody to who you are?
Yeah, you got a bit green, haven’t you, on me, Robin? He’s got a bit upset. He was on vacation in Hawaii last week yesterday. I was visiting Kansas City. There’s a slight difference between Hawaii and Kansas City, isn’t there, Robert?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m the co-founder of Mel-In the event. Yes, yes. I’m the co-founder of mel-right. Com. We build beautiful websites on WordPress, plus we provide a CRM, a lead generation LinkedIn platform. We primarily work with Facebook. It’s a great platform at a great price. Go and have a look at it. Back over to you, Rob. Are you going to say something, Robert?
Okay. My name is… Hold on. Let me stop moving around. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I’m sorry. My name is Robert Newman. I’m the founder of Inbound R-E-M. We are an inbound marketing company that focuses on real estate lead generation SEO, and search engine optimization to get the inbound marketing element started. So we use video a lot with our customers. Almost all of my high-performing customers, with the single exception of two out of 170 accounts, leverage video heavily. So anxious to get into this subject today and try to share some of my experiences and hear some of yours, John. Before we go further, though, I want to ask you a quick question because you opened up the text, and everybody that is new to the show, John, does all the production, and I show up as the on-radio personality. John has another incredibly successful podcast that he’s already doing all the heavy lifting for, so he lets me do just a fraction of the heavy lifting for this show. But you opened up the dialog, the text for this, and you said, Looking for better real estate leads in 2024.
So before we get into all the things we’re going to talk about with video, I want to start the dialog by asking you the question, why or perhaps proposing, why do we think that leads generated through video are actually better?
Yeah, it’s a great question. I think there are two factors here, and it’ll be really interesting to get your response and insights. I think number one, and I think you’ve commented on this, and I found it myself, it’s almost like leads have already re-qualified themselves before they even spoke, speak to you on Zoom or whatever platform, or on a phone call. It’s almost like they normally if they find your message and they find you a good resource. They tend to binge on the other videos that you have produced. And then if they like the other videos, it’s almost like they think they really know you. And I’ve never met you in person. I hope to do that one day. It’d be great to see you live, actually. I don’t know if you agree with that, but I sense that you’re not much different in person than you are on this show. Most people say, and I know it’s a horrendous idea, Rob, but I’m not much different online than in real life. That’s a dreadful thought, isn’t it, Rob? So it does work out sometimes. I also know a few people who are totally false on video.
They’re totally different in person. So it doesn’t always apply. It’s a bit like acting in general. Some people, when you meet them, are notorious for being totally different in private than their public persona. But people do tend to think they know you. The second thing is that I believe it has great benefits when you combine it with posting, blog posting, and written content. I think Google, if you’re blogging about the subject that you’re also making the videos on, I think increasingly, Google gives that a lot more credibility in SEO terms than if you’re just blogging in word content. That’s a very generalistic statement. I’m sure you have more insights, but they’re the two key things that I think our agent would benefit enormously from, and also maybe the social media element as well, Rob.
Sure. So my experience with video is, well, one, I built my own company, my own brand, using video heavily. There’s no doubt that the leads who come in and have watched some of my videos are a million times better. They can pick up my inflections, my tonality, what I’m saying, and how I look, and they either respond to that or don’t. But the fantastic thing is that when they don’t respond to it, they simply don’t call you, which in the marketing world, probably sounds bad. But in the digital world, the net that you’re casting is so I can get 500 views on a video that it took me about an hour or two to produce. And if I got one call off that video, I’d be pretty happy. But I’m really talking to 500 people, and maybe one resonated with me. And when you fall in, there’s a psychological factor, John, that goes along with kinesthetic learning. That’s just visual and auditory and engaging all five of the senses. And when you do that, there’s It’s a sense of familiarity. It’s psychological. It’s like talking to somebody at your door.
You establish a relationship, and once the relationship is established to your point. I think that about 50% of the sale is made because they feel like they know you, they’re comfortable, and at a minimum, when they call you, they’re willing to engage in an open, honest dialog. Depending on whether or not they really need your service, whether they can really be helped by you, then obviously, you’re a tremendous way down the path of creating a client relationship.
I think you’re totally right about it because I’ve noticed if somebody has just read a blog post and they haven’t watched any videos and they book a Zoom with me, the way the conversation goes is very different to if they’ve watched a few of my videos.
Absolutely. So that input, ladies and gentlemen, is what we’re trying to educate you on today. That’s the heart of it. This is a way to establish a better relationship, which will in turn lead to a better lead. Which leads us to number one, once again, John is the one creating the outline for the show. What are some of the key things that agents need to know about using video effectively to get quality leads in 2024? By the way, you can find all this information on the mail, hyphen-right on my Facebook page. Some of the time I post it to my own site, but absolutely positively, you can get it on the MailRight site. If you want to go through the questions yourself and then see our responses or the conversation, you can follow along there. I’m going to say that in terms of getting quality leads, the quality of the lead is going to be dependent upon the service that you provided. The quality of your answer is my opinion on, especially as an inbound marketer. When I do really compelling content, John, like reviews, which we’ve talked about ad nauseam, but I drop insider info.
I know some of the founders. I’ve had relationships with some of the people that we’re reviewing, and I’ll mention that throughout the course of the review, which in turn adds a little bit of extra insight, a little bit of extra weight to the review. If I did a good job, let’s say, talking about all 50 technical on Ciaro Interactive and tried to summarize it, made it more easily digestible for somebody, well, that’s a high level of service because we went through a complicated software, and then tried to simplify it. If we succeeded, that person walked away going, My God, if I tried to use this thing, I’d just spend years getting to know it. Robert just helped me, at least at a very high level, understand it in 30 or 40 minutes. Wow, Wow, thank you. That’s the credibility. What advice would you give? You wrote this question. When you wrote the question, what were you thinking that agents really needed to know about in order to leverage video effectively?
Well, I think you got to really do some basic SEO research when it comes to videos. That’s That’s the one problem when it comes to using video for blogs is to get enough… Youtube is obviously owned by Google, But there is a divide. If you’re going to do research on a title that’s getting reasonable traffic numbers, so YouTube picks up, you’re going to have to use a specialized tool. There’s a couple of them. You use one, and I use the different one, and my mind’s just gone blank about which one I use. They’re both not that expensive, and they can give you some guidance about, are there any search volumes around the search term? Because otherwise, it won’t probably get any views. So I would utilize one… I think it’s Tubuddy that I use, and you use another one, don’t you? So they’re both not that expensive. So I would definitely do some title research in utilizing one of these tools, because otherwise, probably your videos aren’t going to be viewed. And then I would go with that title and build a blog post on it, rather than worrying. I would just worry that it can be searched on YouTube, basically.
So that’s one of the key things. I think another area that we’ve talked about is that this doesn’t happen straight away, is that if you’re one year, two year into your career, the quicker that you can find a niche area and really and really aim your videos around that niche, the better this is going to go for you. But that isn’t easy to start off with because you tend, for understanding reasonable reasons, have to take whatever comes your way. But I think the quicker you can find a niche, the better it’s going to go also. What do you reckon, Rob?
So I’ve always been a big fan of… One of the reasons I love Google and inbound marketing is that it takes a lot of the guesswork away. That’s what you’re talking about right now. You’re talking about doing keyword research, which is, God, the amount of times I’ve said the word keyword research, it makes me want to turn green as I already am. Anybody watching the video can see I am actually turning green. But here’s what… Lately, I’ve been really enjoying using Google without any special technical tools, software tools. And the way that I’ve been using it is people also ask is the question. So you do a broad topic such as real estate in Daytona Beach, right? And then you do that search, and then Google will throw in under that people also ask. And it’s actually the most popular questions that they semantically connect into that keyword. In other words, they think it’s the most relevant questions that people are asking when they’re researching the topic that you just entered in. It makes for a very good, very quick, very down and dirty, I can create a video answering some of these questions when you look through them.
The way that I’ve always done marketing, the way that I tell my clients to do marketing, is stop trying to define the market. The market is already there. The easiest, cheapest way to market is actually to go to what people are already searching and get in front of them. The easiest way to do that is the way I just described. No special tools, no additional subscriptions. John and I are not for Too Buddy or VidIQ, by the way. We are just saying these are cheap tools that you could use, but you can also do it without tools. No $10, just you and your Google search bar. I think that it’s important that real estate agents know that. How you use video effectively to get quality leads in 2024 is about answering the questions that your clients actually have, which Google is already telling you what those are. You just type in the broad search that you know is relevant to your market. Waterfront, a neighborhood name, a home type that you like to represent, new homes, Spanish revivals, whatever it is. Then you answer the questions that are coming up and you do a video on them.
Now, the optimization of video is not simple. That’s what I do for a living, and it requires many hours to properly optimize a video. One thing that me and my team cannot do, though, is answer the questions because that should be the expertise of the real estate agent, not the marketing company. That’s a common misconception. We can give you advice, can point you in the right direction like I just did, but the answer, the actual answer, needs to come from you. That’s one of the ways to leverage video effectively and get high quality leads is to make sure that you’re committed to being of service. Now, we’re going to go to break, and when we come back, we’re going to address three additional questions. What are some of the best video production tools? John is going to do all the heavy lifting on that you should look at in 2024. What are 2-3 types of videos that really work well in generating quality leads? I will probably do more of the heavy lifting on that, though. I’m sure John will want to contribute. How will AI change video in the next 18 months, which as usual is going to be just a debate between me and John.
So stay tuned. We’re looking forward to coming back to you at the break and hopefully giving you some insight and some ideas about how you’re going to use video effectively in 2024 to generate some leads. We’ll be right back. Three Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the MailRight podcast. You’ve got Jonathan Dinwood and Robert Newman guiding you through the subject of getting more quality leads using video in 2024. Before we went to break, we were talking about… I did a rundown of some of the subjects. We’re going to let John take it away. John, I am curious to know what you have to say about the best video production tools that people should look at or agents, real estate agents, to look at in 2024.
Yeah, thanks, Rob. I’m going to start with a very generalistic tool, and it’s Canva. I think if you’re looking for the best value for buck tool in 2024, I think paying for the premium version of Canva, you’re going to get the biggest return on the investment. It really helps with thumbnails, and it’s got a basic video video editor as part of the platform. It’s limited, but for basic video editing on your smartphone, on your tablet, or on your desktop, it does a pretty good job And they’ve got some green screen tools that are quite sophisticated as part of the pro version of Canva, and it’s about $100, $10, $120 a year. So for what it provides with all the other functionality as well, I think it’s a real value for money tool. The next one is the AI tool, the next couple of tools, and it’s Runway. I think for what Runway can do in helping you edit video, and especially these two, the other one I’m going to talk is Descript. And there are differences, but they also both can help you edit video really quick and produce video for different social media platforms.
So you got one video and you can quickly adapt it in different ratios, so it fits other platforms like TikTok, like Facebook, whatever, and it can save an enormous amount of time because producing a video and then manually trying to get the different image ratios for these different platforms can be a real time sucker. And the last one, last bit of advice is that I would suggest that you try and keep away from Adobe. Now, Adobe do have a couple of free products, but they will suck you in to their paid subscriptions, and it can rapidly become very expensive. And it’s not a company. I do utilize still one or two of their products. I’ve tried successfully to use special offers from them to keep the subscription amount that I give them to the minimum possible. But I think in general, a lot of people get sucked into Adobe. So there is a really good free tool that works on PC and Mac. That’s a very advanced video editing tool. It’s Da Vinci Resolve. It is a beast. It’s not something that if you just want to do quick edits, but I do use it occasionally myself, and I only use about 10 to 20% of its functionality, but it’s rock solid and it’s fully free.
They do have a paid version But unless you’re into video production as a profession, I don’t really think you need to use it. If you’re on the Mac, I have a phone, tablet, you could look at using iMovie, which works really well. I’m not a fantastic impressed with its interface. I find it a bit clunky, always have done. But there are some of the main tools that I would suggest that somebody should look at in 2024. What do you reckon, Rob?
My team uses some of those tools. I I do not declare myself to be anything of an expert. The last time I was using… I use Screencastomatic, and before that, I used a really complicated tool that you had to buy for a small fortune. I was never very good at using them. It’s the greatest happiness in my life to be able to hire better video editing people, no matter what tools they use, John. I don’t know if they’re using simple tools. I’ve got two people on staff, and they both went to school for video editing production in other countries, but nonetheless, they did take university for these skills. And there’s no doubt that whether they’re using AI or they’re using a combination, they’re doing a great job. That’s just a very fancy way of saying, I think that video editing is really important. It’s going to be very important. All these tools are important to talk about. Your level of usage on a video editing tool needs to reflect your budget because one way or the other, you need to do video. That’s probably the one salient piece of advice I’ve got about these tools in general, which is if you can only afford a $10 tool, listen, use it.
Use the tool until you can do something better. Use Fiverr. Use a $20 guy until you can get something better. Because I just talked to a client of mine today who, two years into using us, he hasn’t done video. He’s probably heard it from me 10 times, and he’s heard it from my team I don’t know how many times. Every time I talk to him, he keeps telling me it’s video production, it’s this, it’s that. I’ve told him forever, get on, use your phone, just go off and shoot. Something is better than nothing. So two years, you’re into this deep investment with me as a marketing partner, and we don’t have the results that we need to have because we have no personal representation of this person on their website. Please just use something. That’s my only comment. And in terms of what you said, John, you absolutely know better than me. So whatever you suggest, I think, is what people should go for. What are 2-3 types of videos that work really well in generating quality leads? This I’ve got some input on. Do you want me to kick this off or do you want to go?
You go into it, well.
Okay. Actually, the lead generation versus traffic generation videos is one of my favorite things to talk about because I see all these like… I’ll see a realtor online, and John, they’ll have 500,000 views on videos. Then I have somebody check the MLS and they’ve got zero sales. Five hundred thousand views, no sales. I’ve got clients that have a couple of thousand views on videos and have generated sales. Maybe not tens of hundreds, but a few for sure. And so what’s the difference? I have discovered that it very much relates to what you decide to talk about. If you’re going to do the 10 best reasons to live in Reno, Nevada, it’s really not going to generate you elite. If you’re going to discuss the HOA fees for a particular building, let’s say, owned by some casino management company in Reno, and you happen to know for sure that there’s property maintenance issues with the building and they’re charging $500 a person per month, I’m using very extreme examples, John, but let’s just pretend that that’s what’s going on. You happen to do a video, that video might get you 40 views, like that very deeply specific video on a building and all the problems.
But it’s also really likely to get you a call and somebody asking you questions because you’ve now painted yourself as an expert in both property maintenance and price for the HOA. When somebody can’t find a good answer online, which oftentimes they can’t because The only people that are worse than real estate people are property management companies and construction companies. If you can’t get an answer, you call the realtor because you assume they know, and maybe you can convert the call into something viable for your business, an income opportunity. So specific questions and answers about properties, real estate types, or neighborhoods. And then here’s the thing that shocked me the most. It’s always shocked me the most. It’s so crazy. But one of the videos that I know generates a lot of leads across the board in almost any neighborhood, any place in US, is actually neighborhood driving tours. That is so simple. You get in a car, you’ve got your phone on the dashboard, aimed at you, you make sure the road’s not too bouncy, you make sure your sound is okay. And then other than that, you just drive and you take somebody in on a tour of that neighborhood as if they were in your car, as if they were a real estate client.
You give whatever the spiel is that you give when you’re doing that naturally on the buyer’s agent side, you do a neighborhood driving tour. Then on the seller side, because that’s It’s a hot topic. Today, John, there’s two additional video types. New construction, just like the guy that was on the podcast two episodes ago, he couldn’t have been more right about that. It’s a hot, hot category. If you just take a to a place that a developer staked and said, We’re going to build 10 homes here. They’re going to be beautiful five years from now. But you do a video and he puts a billboard up, very likely you’ll get a lot of leads off that from people because just new development is so hot. Then on the seller side, it’s home improvement tips. People go through a series of, What should I repair before I saw my home in? Is the Google search you would do. What should I repair when When I sell my home in Vanhies, it would be for me, and John, for you, it would be Reno, Nevada. That list of things that you get asked is what you do videos on.
It can’t be more simple for you guys. You just go, you see what the things are. If you know a little bit about plumbing, if you have a contractor that you work with for kitchens, you would do a YouTube video with them, and the two of you would answer a lot of questions about renovating your kitchen before you sold the home, and you’d make some estimates about how much that’s going to improve the value of the home, and guess what that does? Well, number one, it gets a contractor some leads maybe for the work, so that’s all you need to do to incentivize them to do the video. And then number two, maybe it gets you some leads to list a home. Those are the easy ones. Oliver, on you, John.
No, I think they’re all great ideas, Robin. They’re just down to earth ideas. And it’s just amazing when you get people say, Well, what should I talk about? ‘ And if you just spend a bit of time thinking about it, it’s obvious. I wouldn’t say obvious because obviously it’s based on you and your team’s experience. But I’ve utilized video to build up my business. One of my channels, it hasn’t got a load of subscriptions. It’s got some of the videos, it’s got a fair few views, but I’ve made over a thousand videos. But like I say, where it does help is what we were saying in the first half, when these people, they tend to binge, and then when they’re talking to me, and long as they’ve got the budget, they normally sign up. So it’s so important, isn’t it? I really think so many agents, they just need to just do that first video And like we’ve said in other videos, you’ve got a fantastic camera normally in your pocket. The main thing you got to sort out, folks, is the sound quality, because it’s not intuitive. But people, when they’re watching video, the one thing that they will not tolerate is bad audio.
That’s the one thing they won’t tolerate. So you got to get that sorted out. And as long as you get that, as long as it’s not bouncing up and down like a yo-yo, you make somebody motion sick. If they’re finding the content useful, they will torate poor video quality, but they won’t torate poor audio, but you really, really got to get on with it in 2024, haven’t you, Rob?
You really do. You really do. And I got to say that just a quick thing for everybody. When you really get some wind in your sales, there’s places in a strategy for videos that are going to gain you a large audience, and then there’s places in your strategy for videos that are going to get you conversion. When I just start working with people, John, I always focus on the lower traffic conversion videos. They also happen to be a lot easier to rank for whatever that’s worth. You may not get 10,000 views. They may not be super sexy, but you’ll definitely we get some response, which is much more important to me as a marketing company that has to earn its supper. Let’s move on to this last and maybe either very short or very long subject, which is, how do we think AI is going to impact video in the next 18 months? Do you want me to start? I can.
Well, I like to start quick because I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit. I think we’ve already seen it’s major things in some ways. I think being able to edit small clips and help you get it all sorted for different platforms and different resolution requirements is really useful. I think there’s quite a few people saying that you’ll be able to have a virtual version of you that will be… And you’ll be able to make videos without having to go in front of the camera. And that sounds really attractive, doesn’t it? I’ve changed my thought about that. I think if you’re going to go down, I think you’re kidding yourself. I think you’re just going to have to grasp the nettle and get yourself in front of the camera, or you’re going to have to get a young person to work with you and be the front person of your broken your micro, your boutique brokerage, or be the front person and be your video assistant. I think this idea that our Not official AR person can be your personality, can be you. I might be totally wrong, and it’ll be interesting to see what your thoughts are.
I really think that’s going to be a red herring, really, Rob. What do you reckon?
Well, as usual, I’m going to do an analogy. Ladies and gentlemen, for a brief amount of time, there was a guy by the name of Tyler Zay, who was fronting doing video for a service called Easy Agent Pro. He was a floutist, and he put himself online, and he was super earnest, and I followed him. He didn’t actually know more than me, but he was really, really earnest. I liked that a lot about the guy. I connected with him. I didn’t connect with his knowledge. As a matter of fact, I hammered a little bit at his knowledge. But I did not connect. I did not hammer away at his earnest and his seeming desire to help agents. He really seemed to have his in the right place. He got 9,000 followers, a significant amount more than InboundR EM has, a significant amount more than Real Geeks has, a significant amount more than almost everybody has. He did that four years ago. Then he switched everything over to a brand ambassador. And honestly, as far as I can tell, their channel growth pretty much stopped. The brand ambassador is fine, but he’s cookie cutter. He doesn’t have passion.
He’s the I’ll put it. I don’t know the guy. If he watches this, I don’t want him to be upset at me because he seems to be doing the best he possibly can. But I’m just going to say I don’t follow them anymore, and I don’t watch their videos I don’t care anymore. I agree with what you said. It’s going to have to be either somebody who’s a great brand ambassador, but I am going to differ from you in one section. I watched this Sora video that just was launched for Toys R Us. It was extraordinarily good. If you just look at it from a creative standpoint only. They did a fairly good job, not perfect, but a fairly good job at representing the founder’s child inside the video, the founder of Toys R Us. His child was done with an AI representation based upon some photos and some things that you can feed into Sora, who then created an animated image that it’s obvious that it’s not a real-life human being, but it’s still pretty compelling. Here’s what I have to say for agents, and this is what I’m excited about as a marketer.
I think the day is not that far away, John, where we’re going to We’re going to be able to take an agent, upload a whole bunch of images and maybe a sample video, and then AI is going to be able to create a fairly seamless avatar, and they’re going to be able to tell the avatar what to say. I I still agree with you. Me and my team are never going to know an area as good as that agent, so an avatar is only going to go so far. However, if we did an avatar with a really compelling written bio that we then turned into a person talking, I see some viable applications for certain parts of the marketing process that’s going to take the load and make it much lighter for agents. Not saying it’s relieving it because it’s not. But I am going to say, are there some things you can do really well and all within probably the next year, which is what the premise of this comment is? Absolutely, 100% yes. I am not excited about the written word for AI. I am not excited about the stuff I’ve seen so far, but I am very excited for generative video.
I think it’s going to be a game changer inside the real estate space. I also think we’re going to be able to tell compelling visual stories, and what the agents are going to be able to do is either get creative themselves or hire a creative agency like ours or yours and get them to do an excellent AI video in conjunction with SEO, which is what I’m known for, it could be a real game changer. Not like you proliferate a site with all AI, John, but you do a couple of exciting intro videos using AI, so they’re connective marketing pieces that would normally have cost you 50, 60 grand.
I totally agree. I totally understand where you’re coming from, and I think, yeah, I totally agree with what you said there. I was making a broad subject, but I think in the right usage, and For people that just cannot, just cannot motivate themselves, and it’s just something they just cannot do, having a tool, having some tools that can help out is great. I’m also more upbeat with the other aspects of AI than you are, Rob, because it’s helped me personally to be much more productive. But on the other hand, I do see why you sometimes can be a bit more negative than me, because I think in some ways, AI has been totally blown out of all proportion. And I’m excluding general AI, which, if it does become a fact in the next couple of years or five years, will change society completely. I’m talking about these large language models, but there is substance even in that. But it’s very similar to the early days of the Internet. The internet has totally changed all our lives. But in those early days, in the early 2000s, it was blown all out of proportion.
It became a massive bubble, and there was a significant correction. And that’s what I foresee in the AI bubble. Because it’s an economic bubble in the amount of mind space that it’s taking up. To me, it’s got many echoes, which I lived through, and you did, of the bubble of the Internet. Would you agree with that, Rob?
I do agree with you. I do agree with it. I agree with every single thing that you said, bubble and all. This is one point at which I think that sometimes you get a little pessimistic. Sometimes I think you and I are optimists and pessimists in different areas, which I find interesting. In this case, I agree with the letter and everything you just closed out saying. I agree with you; 100% of the bubble is being blown out of proportion. However, large language models is a bloody game changer in the information age. We haven’t seen it applied even to a fraction of how it could be used. I think it’s a significant part of the next wave of information technology in general. But guys who are agents and gals that are out there listening to the show, if you think the AI is going to change your business overnight, no. It might change some of your processes or improve it. And those things, sure, if you even have processes, which 80% of you don’t.
Most don’t do they? They don’t process it at all, so do right.
So in a very, very rare use case, it’s going to matter. The place it’s going to matter is clever entrepreneurs. Just to end up, in some ways, this fixation the real estate industry has with CRMs, the amount of time agents spend researching what CRM they should…
I understand it in some ways, but it’s a fixation because most, as you say, most, I 80% plus, have no processes anyway, do they, Rob?
True. I’ll tell you something I saw in the Ylopo Facebook group the other day. It was so clever. It was so near to my experience. There was an agent that He realized, Okay, I’m 13 years into my career. Here’s the six things I would do differently if I had to do it all over again. And he mentioned CRMs. He said I’d start with a single CRM. I’d learn how to use it well, and I’d never change. And I agree with that. I agree with that. Whatever the tool is that you’re using, it’s only as good as your ability to use it. If you got used to using Goldmine, which is this ancient CRM from a million years ago, then use that. Why would you switch? You know how to use it. The learning curve for these new tools is what stops 99% of all agents from using them. That’s a pretty good place to stop unless you have anything else you’d like to add, John. No. Okay. I’ve been Robert Newman. If you’d like to learn more about me, go to inboundrem. Com, look at my About or Services pages, or just go to my blog and see all the incredible things that we’re offering as free information to try to help all of you create more value through SEO, create more value through leads, and create more value through local.
I appreciate you listening today. John, how would you like people to reach out or research you?
I’ll just go to the mail-right. Com website, have a look at what we have to offer. I think you’re going to be impressed, and maybe book a quick chat with me or Adam. It’s mostly me who takes the initial call, and we love to chat with you.
Beautiful. All right, sign us off.
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With Special Guest Brandon Leibowitz of Seooptimizers.com.
Mastering SEO in 2024: Essential Tips & Tricks Real Estate Agents Need to Know to be Successful in an Ever-Changing Online Environment!
Ready to take your real estate business to new heights? Dive into our must-watch video on Mastering SEO in 2024 for real estate agents! Explore crucial tips and tricks to keep you competitive in an ever-changing digital world. From optimizing local listings to building backlinks, this show covers it all. You can elevate your online visibility and drive more traffic toward success.
#1 – Brandon, can you give the audience some info on your background and how you got involved in the semi-crazy SEO world?
#2 – What are some of the leading things you think real estate agents and brokers need to understand connected to SEO in 2024?
#3 – Can you give us a couple of mistakes people make regularly connected to SEO?
#4 – Can you provide one or two case studies of how you have recently helped individuals or companies?
#5 – How will AI change real estate SEO in the next 18 months?
#6 – If you had your time machine (H. G. Wells) and could travel back to the beginning of your career and business journey, what essential piece of advice would you give yourself?
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mail-Right podcast. Today’s episode is number. Today, John lobed me a softball and decided to make the subject of the show, The Changing World of SEO in 2024. And we have this stellar Brandon Leibowitz of Seooptimizers.com. Did I say that right?
Yeah.
Perfect. With us to help us discuss what you need to know in 2024 about SEO. So before we go into it, Brandon, our audience, or at least maybe 80% of them, are going to know who we are. They are not going to know who you are. Why don’t you jump in and give us a little bit of background in detail on who you are what you do, and why you feel comfortable talking about SEO with us?
Definitely, thanks for having me on. My name is Brandon Lebowitz, and I have been involved with digital marketing since 2007. I graduated from college and got my degree in business marketing. After I graduated, the first job I got out of school was helping a company out with digital marketing, which I didn’t really know much about back then. They said, Don’t worry, we don’t know much either, which I thought was interesting. And they said, We’re going to learn with you, take you to classes and workshops and seminars. And did that for a few months and just realized everyone’s probably going to have a website in the future. And there’s lots of different ways to get traffic, such as social media, email marketing, paid ads, and SEO. And I just focused more on SEO because I thought, Who doesn’t want free traffic? And over the years, I worked at different advertising agencies as a director of SEO. Before work and after work on my lunch breaks, I worked on my own company and eventually built that up to where I was able to quit my job and focus solely on this, helping people just tap into that traffic from Google.
Beautiful. All right. I’ve got many questions stemming even from your introduction. But before we do that, I want to make sure that we credit the guy who runs the MailRight show. And I’m going to do a little bit of a drum roll. Brandon, I don’t know that you know what the background is, but John is a WordPress legend. He has another show called WP-Tonic. It’s literally one of the biggest shows on the subject of WordPress. He’s had a massive list of luminaries come on his show, Matt Molenwig, Rand Fishkin, the list goes on and on. It makes me jealous that we can’t get all those people. We’ve had our fair share, but we have yet to have all those people on this show. So he knows all the stuff about WordPress. He also happens to be a founder in the real estate space. He is building out using his extensive knowledge, turning WordPress into a tool for all real estate agents and brokers, and doing a hell of a job at doing it. That’s my introduction. John, how would you describe yourself?
I’ll send you the check. Thanks so much, Rob. Yes, I’m the joint founder of Mel-right. Com. We build great-looking websites, but we give you a lot more than that. We give you a CRM landing page functionality, social media Canada, and a lot more all in one package. And it’s just a fantastic platform. And I just want to say, if you’ve got any questions, why don’t you join us? This show, we do it around 2:00 PM I’m every Thursday, Pacific Standard Time. You can join us through YouTube or the Mel Wright Facebook page. And if you’ve got any questions, you can ask them during the show, and we will attempt to answer them. That’s it. Back over to you, Robert.
Okay, I’d like you to copy me. With that, I’m going to ask the two… You know what? I’m the founder of Inbound REN. We are an SEO company and an inbound marketing company. I’ve been focused on residential real estate agents for longer than most people have had careers. I’m excited to get into today’s topic. If you want to learn anything about me, just go to inboundrem. Com because a good SEO guy always has a lot more information published than they do when you’re going to talk to them. I have hundreds and hundreds of articles and all sorts of stuff on my website. So go check it out. Now, diving into it, if you could do me a favor, John, because I want to share the show on my channel. So just if you could go ahead and dive into question number two, while I share, sure.
So, Brendan, what are there a couple of things you think real estate agents and brokers really need to understand connected to SEO, especially in 2024, because of various factors? It’s changing, it always is. But I think, I don’t know if you would agree with this, over the last year or 18 months, I think that pace of change is acerated in some ways. So what are some of the key things you feel that this particular audience really needs to understand?
There is a lot that can be done. I would say, well, one aspect is Google business profile. So if you’re local, you want to try to have a presence on Google Maps, which is Google business profile. And having that is great because I do see a lot of real estate agents that unfortunately don’t have their own website, and they think they have a website, but it’s hosted on one of these big corporate websites, and it’s not really theirs. They just have a page. So I always tell them, you need to have your own website. I like that. You’re hopefully telling them to build their websites and claim their own website, build it on WordPress, own it, take ownership. Don’t be on some other third party platform because you don’t have full control because that limits what you can do with that CEO. So if you don’t have full control, Google business profile is a way that you can have full control and try to get that presence on the maps and just try to capture more real estate on that first page of Google so you could just get more traffic.
Yeah. Anything else? What’s the second thing that you think is really important?
Content. So content is always very, very important, meaning text. Google feeds off text. They struggle with images and videos. I mean, they’re getting much, much better at it, but they really want text on every single page on your website. So just adding more content. And a lot of people are looking at AI to help with that, which Google said a few months or last year that we don’t care who writes the content. If AI writes it, it’s fine, as long as it’s accurate and helpful and beneficial. So if you want to have AI help write like outlines, I’m going to just have it write your content because it’s not perfect yet, but it is getting there. And that could just be something that assists people because a lot of people don’t have time to write content for their website or to keep their blogs updated. And that is really important for Google.
Great. Over to you. Over to you, Robert.
Thanks, John. All right, well, we still You accidentally stumbled into a hot topic with me because I actually usually recommend the exact opposite of what you just said. But I don’t really want to get into a debate about the benefits or judgment call on AI on this particular show because we’ve spoken about it in vast quantities in other shows that we’ve done. I just want to make a footnote that I don’t necessarily agree, but I understand your point of view. I respect your point of view. Just so that we can get an understanding of… I’m going to skip. I’m going to mix up one of the questions, John. I’m going to shuffle number three to number four, which is, can you give us an example of a couple of companies that you’re working with or a couple of maybe case studies that would illustrate your point, like customers that you’ve worked with, changes that you’ve made, results that you saw, what you did and what happened?
Yeah, definitely. And I would not recommend just using AI to write your content just as an outline, if you get stuck on stuff. But yeah, AI, definitely don’t use it. Don’t rely on it. It’s just a tool to help you out. And it’s good for coming up with blog post topics or writing outlines, but writing content, I would still much rather use humans because it’s much more accurate. But in terms of case studies, and clients I’ve worked with in general, I have a whole gauntlet. One that I’m We’ve been working with for the past couple of years was they have exotic cars that they lease out, and they’ve been around for 25 years, and they’ve had a lot of authority built up to their website. But the way the website was built It was just Google was not able to read it, wasn’t able to crawl it, and that caused them not to get ranked for a lot of the keywords that they wanted to rank for. And by going in, cleaning up all the coding, actually having to rebuild the site, unfortunately, this one was just built in a way that was not crawlable for Google.
Building in a new way that let Google find the pages, read the pages, look at the coding, seeing a title tag, descriptions, header tags, all these technical things that Google wants to see, pretty much shot them up to that first page of Google within two months. Usually it takes a lot longer, but this site is a really old website that has a lot of domain authority and a lot of backlinks built up to it. So Google trusted it, they just couldn’t read it. And by going in and making those changes, they moved up really fast, where usually most clients I work with, it’s the other way around, where they have a website built and it’s been only built for a year or a couple of years old, and they don’t really have many backlinks. And that’s where we got to go in and start building more backlinks to get Google to trust them and see that they’re relevant and authoritative. And that takes a lot more time. Building backlinks, getting Google to trust you is not something that you do overnight. It takes months, if not much longer, depending on how competitive those keywords are.
But by building the right backlinks and sending the right signals of relevant and authoritative backlinks to those websites, slowly they start moving up, gaining that traction and getting to that level of placement that they want to be at.
Copy you. I John, I’m going to throw a doosy in here. I’m curious to know if you want to go before me, though. I’m going to go off script. I’m curious to know, Brandon. So recently there’s been Ran Fishkin leaked. He was hit up by somebody who had gotten a hold of 2000 documents that were API coding references that were believed to be from Google directly, a mistake, uploaded to GitLab. It’s been setting the SEO world on fire because for the first time ever, we think that we may have some very specific actionable ways of what Google is looking at. And in those documents, it’s not necessarily the things that they’ve been telling us all these years. So I’m curious to know, have you seen anything about that? And if you have, do you have an opinion about any of it?
Yeah, that leak is pretty big right now and will probably stay very important for a long time. And a lot of stuff that Google tells us not to do actually is ranking factor. And I can’t really trust Google or any of the faces they put out there, like Matt cuts back in the day and all these people that were telling you what they, what Google wants, which is not really in Google’s best interest. They’re not going to tell you how to rank websites. I mean, they might tell you some things, like in the past, they were saying, We’re having this mobile update. If your website is not mobile friendly, we’re not going to show you on mobile devices because that helps their bottom line out. They want a good user experience. They want someone searching on mobile to click on a Google list result, go to a website, be able to read it, scroll through it. And if it looks bad, eventually people are going to be like, Google, what’s going on? Why are you showing me results that I can’t read these websites? And they’re going to go to Bing or Yahoo or DuckDuckGo or some other search engine.
So when it’s in their best interest, they’re going to let you know. But in reality, they’re not going to tell you really what goes on in the rankings. And a lot of stuff that they talk about, like clicks, like how many people search on Google and click on your result. That had a big impact. When I first started doing SEO back in 2007, I built my website and would test that out where I would go to different… If I was working at a Starbucks, it’s a different IP address, and I would search my company name or keywords related to my company and click on it and see what happened. And I would start moving up those rankings And Google says that’s not part of the ranking with them, which now we could see it is or Chrome, the data from there. They never looked at that. But I always try to bookmark all my websites and my clients’ websites in Chrome, just so Google sees that they’re bookmarked and hopefully reads that and just trying to think outside the box in any way possible just to appease Google because the links, they’re cryptic the way they name things.
But there were some words that stuck out and we were able to decipher, but a lot of it was cryptic and wasn’t the easiest, like domain authority or page rank, still part of their algorithm and things like that. So whatever you hear Google say, just take it with a grain of salt. They’re not really telling you what’s in your best interest. They’re telling you what’s in Google’s best interest.
So I’m going to close out the segment of the show, and I’m going to give you a chance to chew on this. We’re going to go to break at the 15 minute mark, which is in about 30 seconds, maybe a minute. So So I, long before the leak, long before the leak, was propositioning that Google must be using Chromium as a major tracking and ranking factor across their algorithms. There was no proof to that. As a matter of fact, they oftentimes alluded to or denied the idea that they were using Chrome as this major… Because they were worried about violating privacy laws. It’s my guess. This is all just an opinion. It was all an opinion. But it didn’t seem logical to me that they’d be running a company this big when they took all the time to build Chromium, how much they pump Chromium, how many deals they’ve made around Chromium, how many people use Chromium. It would be absolute insanity not to use it as the backbone of your algorithm since about 80% of the world uses it as a browser. It turns out that with a hack, that if indeed it is really a hack from Google, that there is indeed tracking metrics inside Chromium, lightweight APIs, in this case called Navboost.
Navboost tracks exactly as I had been guessing that it was user behavior tracking That’s probably by clicks and length of visit because those would be the things would be easiest to track using an API. Indeed, that seems to be the case with some other added elements into it. There’s some factors that just rocked me to the core, the fact that they absolutely positively have a negative factor now built into exact match domain names. They’ve said it, by the way, for everybody listening to the show, for Brandon, in case you didn’t… They’ve said they were not being as gentle with them, but they didn’t come up directly and say, We’re going to penalize you. We’re going to mess you up if you have a direct match domain name, which is just It’s heart-wrenching for all the people that have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on direct match domain names. Anyway, here’s the question. How big of a result have you seen when you focused on things like user behavior? Because something you said earlier goes directly against what John and I say, which is, and I just want to be honest with you about it, John and I have been screaming video as long as there’s been a male It’s a podcast.
Well, actually, I’m so sorry. Since the moment I joined the podcast, which was like three and a half years ago or three years ago, something like that. We’ve been saying video, video, video. All the updates Google is making are saying video, video, video. All the results that I’m getting, say, video, video, video. All the things that I see are time on page in terms of ranking factors, video being 80% of the world consuming it, adding it to a page as long as it’s engaging, easiest way to add that page, hang time, as long as you’ve sent a mechanical URL signal to Google that says, Hey, this is the home of where the video lies. For me, for John and I, like shortcut hack to real estate agents, it’s like, number one thing we’re talking about is video. And earlier on, you were like, not so much. I want to let you chew on that and then come back to us with a response after After the break, we can draw it out if you need a time, like a beat to think about it. So without any further ado, ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to go to break.
And when we come back, Brandon is going to share his thoughts with us about the relevance of video for SEO. Perhaps we need to distinguish what customers you’re working with because for us, real estate agents, video is definitely a shortcut of hack. The average real estate agent can do that. Whereas if you said, Let’s spend $10,000 on a really nice piece of content, yeah, the average agent isn’t going to be able to do that. We’ll be right back, ladies and gentlemen, with the amazing Brandon Leberowitz and my amazing co-host, Jonathan Dinwood. We’re going to see what Brandon has to say about video SEO for… Or video as it relates to SEO in 2024. We’ll be right back. You’re going to cut this out and edit it, though, John. Brandon, do you need a beat or are ready to…
No, we can go. We can keep going.
Okay, so I’m going to do a countdown, then we’re going to cue the show back up, okay?
Yeah.
Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the MailRight podcast. Today’s episode number is 436, I think. I got it right.
You get a stall.
That was Hale, Mary. We’re here with Brandon Leewoodson. Before we went to break, we were talking about… Brandon made comment about maybe that he didn’t feel strongly about SEO that made me think that maybe he didn’t think strongly about SEO as Jonathan and I do. I have tried to serve up a question that properly frames that topic, and I’m curious to know what your response is.
Video is definitely very beneficial and helpful. I was just saying at the beginning that content to Google, content Google loves text, and they struggle with images and videos, but they still So you can read potentially them, and they can transcribe them, especially now, like you’re on YouTube, and there’s tools that will transcribe the whole video, or Google will do that for you. Youtube will do that for you. So if you upload a video to YouTube, they’ll try to transcribe it for you or subtitle it. It doesn’t always get it right. That’s why I’m saying it’s not perfect yet. But it is helpful because people don’t want to read content. Nobody wants to read a 500-word article when they can watch a video about it. That’s why if you look at social media, everything is shifted to a video. Instagram is primarily video. There are still images, but it’s primarily video because people just want that visual content. They want that instant gratification, that instant content versus reading it. But in terms of website, I would recommend if you have a video, throw that video up there. And if it’s just a video on that page, I would say transcribe it.
If it’s a really long video, maybe you could timestamp it and break it up in the chapters. But having some text supporting the content around that video just to help with that CEO. So not just having a video as a standalone on your own page, but having a video along with some content there. And definitely the longer people stay on your website, the better off it’s going to be, because if someone just searches, goes to your website, or searches on Google, clicks and goes to your website and then hits that back button, Google sees that and sees how long they were on your website. And if you’re only on it for five seconds, that tells them that your website probably isn’t relevant. And you might be ranked number one, but if enough people hit that back button quickly, then Google is going to say, maybe you should… Let’s try dropping it to number two, and Let’s move number two to number one. And let’s see, do people stay on number one now longer? And if so, then they might keep dropping you down saying your website isn’t really what people are looking for. It ranks for the keyword, but maybe it’s because we’re looking at the wrong signals.
And we also have to look at user experience and how long do they stay on that page. And a video is a great way to keep people engaged versus just throwing them a big block of text where they might say, all right, especially on mobile, this is too much. I don’t want to read all this text. So for SEO, I always say, optimize it for people at the top of your page, above the fold, make it really easy for people to skim through, see your value proposition, your call to action, put a video there or some bullet points so they could quickly skim it. And then, lower down, you could have more text just to help support that for SEO purposes.
Copy you. So I’m going to share something with you, Brandon, the spirit of comrade in arms stuff. Oftentimes, I have found myself out in in the middle of at the very bleeding edge of SEO because I’ve been on the phone with real estate agents for 16 straight years. I’ve had thousands of conversations with them.
You still seem very calm, Robert. I’m surprised.
And there’s this… So oftentimes, real estate agents force you, they ask you such undereducated questions that oftentimes you have to go out there and show them something, prove something. And in the course of doing that, I’ve managed to figure out a few things that are working really well for my clients, for sure, like scoring big, big, big marks. And one of those things is You said transcribing a video, and the way that I understood that, and let me make sure that I did understand that correctly, is I felt like you meant transcribe it to a physical page. Is that right?
Yeah, take it and take that content and put it on the page. Or if it’s on YouTube, you If you put in the description, just put some content around it supporting what that video is about.
Got you. I’m pretty sure, because Google, once again, won’t tell you for certain, but I’ve learned this particular hack from some of the biggest video game influencers that exist, and they use it, and I stole it and use it in real estate. There’s these two options, and NAVboost does point to this. It’s closed-captioned. There’s two options when you do a video. One is you can use Rev or something like that, like automated text. Everybody does that. Google, I think, ignores it when you do that. But I’ve always said, and the recent leak seems to show, that there’s a difference in the way that Google handles the video when you manually closed-caption it, when supposedly the purported owner of the video goes through and says, This is what I was saying, and then closed Closed Captions, their video, it is always, for me at least, ranked as if they could understand every word of the video. My thought has been, and still is, is that as long as you do the closed captioning inside the video, you’re actually adding massive pages of text. It’s just pages of text that your end user can’t see, certainly helps Google understand what’s on the video exactly and certainly has done…
I’ve done studies with and without this one thing because everything else, VidIQ and all these other services, they’ll point to, and you can do easily. This is the one hard thing. The one hard thing is what has really gotten me massive results. Like, over other people, probably using VidIQ or Tubuddy. Jonathan is a big fan of Tubuddy. But anyway, all right, let’s move on. John, you’ve got number 4 on this.
I’m I got lost, but I think we just go to number five. But first of all, Brandon, I just wanted to ask you this because I think Robert’s alluded to it. Do you think all three of us, especially, are we in a bit of a bubble? Because we run businesses about online marketing. But I’m still amazed in the amount of people that don’t even understand the fundamentals of SEO and digital marketing on the people I meet regularly on a day-to-day basis that are reasonably successful. Do you think it’s all a bit of a bubble, or do you think it just depends on what area you’re doing business in or physical area you live in, or do you think we are in a bubble? What’s your views about this, Brenda?
Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, most business owners aren’t too well-informed about SEO. They might know about keywords, try and put keywords on their website, but most of them don’t know about backlinks, or they do know about backlinks They’re building the wrong type of backlinks by going on like, Fiverr and buying a gig and trying to get a thousand backlinks and then realizing they’re all from foreign language sites or blog comments or like, directories that are low quality and PBN type of site. Those people, we unfortunately have to educate them and break it down and let them know what SEO is, the benefits of it, how long it takes. A lot of people aren’t aware of that either. They think that they could just throw some keywords on there and start ranking, and they don’t realize that it takes a lot of time for Google to trust a website, and it’s not as quick and easy as people think. But unfortunately, most business owners aren’t too aware of that or even the fundamentals, SEO might work for them, but it might not also work. I’ve had a lot of people come to me with brand new products, new inventions that don’t really have search volume.
I’m like, it’s going to be a little tricky unless we start ranking for keywords that are related to your product, but it’s not exactly what you’re offering. So sometimes SEO doesn’t always work or you’re just selling T-shirts and you’re dominated by big corporate websites and trying to compete with them is going to… It’s not really feasible. I mean, if you have a big budget, you can. But in reality, it’s probably not that you’re going to be able to break into. Just trying to set expectations is one thing that I try to do ahead of time with clients and just letting them know maybe this isn’t the best option, but social media or doing some other Google ads or trying to give them alternatives. So they’re not just left saying, All right, this wasn’t helpful, but giving them alternatives because everyone really is online nowadays. If you’re not online, you’re missing out on potential a lot of people. Just trying to figure out where are your clients? How do I get in front of people when they’re looking for my product or service. And sometimes it might be different areas that you might not have thought of, and you have to get creative with that.
Fantastic. Back over to you, Rob.
So we’re going to do a thought experiment and use you as our foil. Once again, John and I have talked about this. We’re excited to have an SEO guy on the show to give us a third outside opinion on this subject. And this is obviously, if you don’t have a lot of real estate clients, this is just going to be guesswork. We are asking you to guess, not know. So our number five question was, how do you believe the AI might change SEO in the next 18 months or so? If you just had to guess.
I mean, that part, it just depends. So for content creation, things like that, I feel like everyone’s going to start using that more and more. And it comes down to making sure the content is accurate and helpful and beneficial, not just going to ChatGPT and say, write me a blog post about 10 neighborhoods to live, to check out in Los Angeles. It’s not going to give you the best results, but if you use it as more of a starting point and say, maybe help me write an outline, that’s going to be much better. But I see a lot of people just copy and pasting it and throwing it up there because they see other people that are doing it and say they get results.
Can I intervene, Brandon? Because I think you’re so right. But Because there are people on the internet that have promoted AI content, especially building niche websites. They say, Use this tool or the other tool, and write 600 articles about a niche subject that you know nothing about for affiliate marketing purposes. And they’ve been hammered by Google, but it’s obvious they’re going to be hammered by to Google because the actual worth of that content, they don’t even edit it. They don’t even know anything about the subject, do they, Brenda? So what do they think was going to happen? Do you think I’m on the right track?
Yeah. I saw people that were throwing up hundreds of pages a day. I’m just like, all right, this is probably a red flag to Google. A typical website would have fewer pages being created, just like backlinks. You can only build a few backlinks at a time. That looks really weird. How did all of a sudden get all these backlinks? Same with pages. How can you write hundreds of pages every single day? And it’s all just that AI content that looks good and is readable, but is it really accurate? Is it really beneficial? Is it helping with the user experience? And in the long run, it’s not. And I see a lot of them now that are talking about saying they got penalized, and they’re going in and cleaning it up, removing low-quality content. So you have to test everything. You can’t trust others, And people say until you try it out and test it. But even then, you have to think, is this really the best strategy in the long run? Or is Google eventually going to try to figure this out to stop it from happening? Because that’s what Google does is people find ways to game the system, and Google stops that exploitation.
People are just throwing it out, saying, Look at AI, it’s so easy. It ranks. And, of course, Google will say, We don’t want that to happen. We don’t want you to throw up AI because now how do we know what’s good, and what’s terrible content without looking at all these other variables like authorship and EEAT, things like that?
Beautiful. John, if you don’t mind, we’re going to ask for your patience for maybe another 30 to 90 seconds because we’re going to close the show out. Our bonus content is going to be a question that we included in the form that we sent you, which is if you had a time machine, like an HDR Wells-type time machine, and could travel back to the beginning of your career or business journey, whichever you prefer to talk about, what essential piece of advice would you give yourself?
You are getting a mentor sooner rather than later. So mentorship and getting mentors is something that just really helps out in general for business or SEO, or you get multiple mentors, but people that you could talk to bounce ideas off, and they are maybe one or two steps ahead of you in your business career. So you could learn from them, learn from their mistakes. That way, you could try to avoid them and get insights. They’ve really helped my career out a lot. And I waited a long time or didn’t really know about them at the beginning of my career, and then I did know about them, but I just never really jumped on them. And I teach classes at lots of different places. And one place is called score. Org. And if you don’t know of a mentor or can’t find a mentor, you could go to score. Org. And it’s a free resource. And they’ll match you up with mentors. And nowadays, with everything being virtual, it doesn’t matter if you’re in that same city and you can find a mentor that would really help you, guide you along your business journey and your career, and help, hopefully, get you to that next level that you’re trying to move up.
Isn’t SCOR related to retired COs and things like that who volunteer their time and help people out? I feel like I’ve run across it a few different times. Okay. All right. I’m just making sure that I was thinking of that. I looked it up, but I still need to read it. I feel like I actually know the answer to that question.
It’s part of the SBA, the Small Business Association. So the government funds it, and then SCOR has a bunch of retired CEOs that are like, I want to give out my time and give back to the community. Here, I’m willing to mentor people, give them advice, and guide them.
Very cool. I love that. Mentors have made a big difference in my life, so I totally give a thumbs up on that one. Jon, is there anything you’d like to add before we close the show-up?
No, I want to thank Brandon for coming on. Obviously, you know your stuff, Brandon, I could tell. And thanks for coming on the show. And spiry with my beloved Robert. But he’s pretty nice to you, actually, Robert. Robert could get even much more spicy than this, Brandon. But he’s in a good I need to die.
Well, listen, thank you so much for coming on board. If somebody was going to reach out to you, how would you like people to look you up if they have questions or something that might serve you and them?
The best way to do this is to go to my website at seooptimizers. Com. That’s S-E-O-O-P-T-I-M-I-Z-E-R-S. Com, and they can find my contact information there and many classes I’ve done over the years. I’ve thrown up a free so I could see step by step how to do a lot of stuff that we talked about today.
Beautiful. I love it. All right. If you’d like to learn anything about me, it’s inboundrem. Com. My name is Robert Newman. I’ve been the fearless captain of the show, but the guy who makes the show work and run is John, If, Then, Then, Would. John, if you’d like anybody to find you, talk to you about Mailright, talk to you about marketing, talk to you about anything, how would you want them to do that?
I think there are two ways. Go to the Mailright YouTube channel and subscribe. We’re always making new content for that. Or go to the Mailright website and have a look around. We’ve got a fantastic blog. We write a load of stuff and video, and you can book a demo, and I can show you the power of Mel Wright. Back over to you, Rob.
Cool. All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for tuning in. We deeply appreciate your earballs today and look forward to getting them the next time you want to learn more about real estate marketing. We’re going to sign off now. Like us where you found us, comment where you found us, and join us next Thursday at 2:00 PM, just like John has been asking repeatedly.
The Hosts of The Mail-Right Show
Jonathan Denwood
https://www.facebook.com/mailrightusa
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Robert Newman
InboundREM
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