#468 – The Mail-Right: Rocket Mortgage Buys Redfin: What Does this Mean?

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Rocket Mortgage Buys Redfin: What Does This Mean?

Redfin bought by Rocket Mortgage: Uncover the implications of this major acquisition and how it could revolutionize the home-buying process.

In this show, we delve into the significant acquisition of Redfin by Rocket Mortgage and explore its implications for the real estate market. What does this merger mean for homebuyers, real estate agents, and the broader industry? We break down the key details of the deal and analyze how it could reshape how we buy and sell homes. Don’t miss out—watch the video to stay informed.

Episode Full Show Notes

[00:00:22.440] – Robert Newman

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Today’s episode is number 468. As you can tell, by my somber tone, we will talk about serious stuff today. We’re going to discuss Red Fin being bought by Rocket Mortgage. We will discuss some of Open Door’s growing problems if we have time. We’re excited to get into this conversation. Before we start, though, we’ll be sure to introduce you if you happen to be a listener who hasn’t met me or Jonathan Denwood. My partner in this podcast, Jonathan, is a long-time entrepreneur. He’s an import from the UK, and I talked decades ago about him. It’s not like this has been recent.

[00:01:09.480] – Jonathan Denwood

I’m going to be tarred pretty soon.

[00:01:13.300] – Robert Newman

They’ve got a lot of rules there that aren’t the same as ours. He’s always had a bit of a feather related to Redfin in his cap. I have some things to say about yet another large portal acquired by another conglomerate. Before we go any further, John, why don’t you give people a little bit of your summary about who you are? Let’s continue to wind up towards the main event. Thanks.

[00:01:45.810] – Jonathan Denwood

Thanks, Robert. I’m the joint founder of Mail-Right.com, Mel-right. We’re CRM, a lead generative platform with a website and load functionality, and we start month to month at $49. We’re affordable, and it’s just a great platform with a load of functionality. Go over to the website, read what we offer, be blown away, and book a chat with me. Back over to you, Robert.

[00:02:21.460] – Robert Newman

All right. My name is Robert Newman. I’m a lifetime sales guy, lifetime storyteller, and multiple founder, and I have started several companies. InboundREM, which I started nine years ago, is a nod to some things I saw in the real estate industry that needed to be addressed. A company that was SEO-first, inbound, Trading First, affordable in comparison to other SEO companies, and a few different things. But if you want to learn about real estate, part of inbound marketing is giving away as much of your knowledge as possible for free. And I’ve done that. Thirty-five years of experience, 16 of them in the real estate world, go to my website. I guarantee you will learn something you need to know about digital marketing. All right, without any further ado, we can walk into our main topic today: the acquisition of Open Door by Rocket Mortgage. My guy, John, has always done an incredible job on show notes. If any of you are listening to the show and thinking that there’s no value to going to somewhere where you’re writing, you’re wrong. You should see what John has written and where he got his research.

[00:03:43.660] – Robert Newman

We will start with the history of Redfern and its founders, David O’Reacher, Michael Dauery, and David Saling. If you can do me a favor, John, I didn’t do the research. I have some knowledge, but I didn’t read up on this if you could start us off and give us your thoughts on these three founders in this company, in a summary way.

[00:04:06.060] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, a lot of them come from Stanford University. They were into tech. They built some functionality when they started Redfin. You could pass and comment about some of that tech, some like the Mac feature, and some other semi-revolutionary, I think, or semi-better than what was offered. Then they brought on a good old Glenn into the mix, who has been the President and CEO of Red Fin and the public face for quite a long time. I call him the laughing Harina myself. He’s always got a grin. And that’s it—Techie people who provided some great tech and a very flawed business model.

[00:05:18.190] – Robert Newman

Yeah. So I agree with most of that. So Redfin has always been… A group of tech guys started it. Here’s my hot take. Started by a group of tech guys. They correctly said there was a huge hole in the real estate market for services. And the guy you mentioned said, ” Oh, hey, you can add more. He was a data mining guy. And so he probably thought correctly that data could be used so much better. He also thought that because he had come from Amazon, data could most likely be collected and used for the betterment of the brand much better, and that he saw very few people doing that correctly with real estate. Unfortunately for him, a couple of other guys have these really big ideas that have been tried inside real estate countless times and have never really worked. That is the idea that real estate agents can be very salary compensated salespeople with a single standard of service across every marketplace for people who are buying and selling homes. And that might have worked if the idea of buying and selling homes hadn’t been established so well inside the market as an open field of opportunity for top sales reps.

[00:06:39.640] – Robert Newman

And why does that matter? Anytime you give many markets, are actually dominated by small businesses. We just don’t think of it that way, John. We don’t look at it that way, but I’ll give you an example. There are a couple of fields of sales here in LA, in Beverly Hills, specifically, that have been dominated by some incredibly aggressive, talented, organized small business owners. We know them by their name. We think of them as agents like Joyce Ray. Joyce Ray has a staff of 13 people that support her. She is a small business owner. When one of her clients calls her, her team of 13 goes into action. You’re not going to take away her business based on a 1% model. There’s nobody that can match the speed, style, privacy that her team offers the right client. And therein we run into the challenges with these one % models. Everybody’s seeing… There are tons of agents out there that say, I can do the same service for one % of your commission instead of three, and the client will save that 2%, and since they’re getting the same service, they’ll love me. It’s just not true.

[00:07:57.300] – Robert Newman

It’s just not true, unfortunately, for those one % You need profit to add value to your business mechanism, or at least great salespeople, great business owners do that. They take the money that they make and reinvest it into the business. Sound familiar, John?

[00:08:13.120] – Jonathan Denwood

Yes.

[00:08:14.150] – Robert Newman

Okay. And so for some reason, everybody, the second you start treating a service like a commodity, flat rate it, you’re going to get a service that is a commodity. And Redfin, nobody figured out that model yet. And so there’s a lot of brokenness inside the model. Doesn’t surprise me that Redfin has been acquired for 1. 75 billion? It’s basically, which is a pittance in today’s world. It’s a pittance. Red Fin has been raising money, doing, flipping, doing all this different stuff for years. So 1. 57 billion, it would be the baby of all the deals that we’re going to see as the real estate industry continues to consolidate. I don’t have much to comment on, except that I use Rocket for my finances. Rocket is a very smart tech-driven company. I think this deal is great for Rocket and completely terrible for anybody and everybody that’s ever been involved with Redfin.

[00:09:23.840] – Jonathan Denwood

That’s my- Well, they haven’t done too bad in the sales. The major stockholders, and I’m sure Glenn’s done, and some of the founders have done okay. I just think that they were having problems with their business model from day one. The website, you’d probably be better off. I think there’s the figure of 50 million uniques to the website, but their business model, it was failing. So then they got into wholesaling, didn’t they? They got into the same craze as we’re going to be talking about, Open Door and Zillow got in iBuyer. They all pulled in on the COVID years into wholesaling, and They were doing really great because everybody that palled into wholesaling were doing nice. But when the damn broke, they’d been slaughter, basically, because it’s back again to a broken business model, as you so clearly outlined. They had nowhere to go, really. Their hope was that interest rate were going to be slashed, and it was back to a boomy market that would… And they could go back to their old wholesaling days. It looked like it’s not happening. And Glenn, Mr. Smiley, as I call him, always got a grin on his face as he’s cutting your throat.

[00:11:17.460] – Jonathan Denwood

It’s just a really broken business model. But maybe we can discuss in the second half Really a totally different company. Both Red Fin had a broken business model. Rocket has had its ups and downs with the regulators. But obviously, Glenn wasn’t a founder, but they couldn’t, in my mind, be two different individuals than Glenn and Dan Gilbert. But whatever you think of Dan, and I have different thoughts about Dan Gilbert, he didn’t start with nothing, but my God, he didn’t start with much. To say that he achieved a lot in his lifetime, he’s still alive. I still think he’s reasonably active in the business to some extent. It’s a story that could only happen in America, really. But he’s a very controversial businessman, isn’t he?

[00:12:41.020] – Robert Newman

Yeah.

[00:12:42.770] – Jonathan Denwood

But you got to respect him in some ways, don’t you?

[00:12:48.160] – Robert Newman

You do indeed. We’re going to open up the subject. We’re going to stop a few minutes into it, but we’re going to talk a little bit about what went wrong with Redfin’s business model, which is a The topic that John has included as part of the show notes, but guys, I got to tell you, everybody that’s listening in the show, this is a controversial opinion. The reason that I have this opinion, you can summarize everything that I thought was wrong with Redfin by the last and closing sentence on Glenn Kalman’s LinkedIn profile, which is basically, I’ve done everything there is to do at startups except for be in sales. That is on his It’s his own LinkedIn profile. And it shows people that hate salespeople are the people that create models that are one percenters. And the reason that they always do it is because they don’t understand sales. It’s very similar between democracy and commercialism and communism. And unfortunately, it doesn’t work. That’s the problem because great salespeople want to be compensated in great ways. The minute you figure out that you’re great or that you’re working five times as hard as the other sales guys on the same lot, you’re going to leave.

[00:14:13.590] – Robert Newman

That is the problem. You can’t keep great salespeople in flat business models, and you want the great salespeople servicing your customers. Let’s talk a little bit about your hot take You linked an article that was what went wrong with Redfin Rocket Mortgage Acquisition. It was an article on HousingWire, which can occasionally be behind a paywall.

[00:14:40.390] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I’m sorry about that. Sometimes it’s under the firewall, and sometimes it isn’t, is it?

[00:14:45.980] – Robert Newman

Yeah, but why don’t you share your thoughts on this?

[00:14:52.000] – Jonathan Denwood

Start us off, please. Well, I can understand. What I would like to get your input from is that you I can understand why Rocket has bought it because of the traffic they’re getting. I’m surprised, even though Rocket is the second largest mortgage company in the US, I’m ongoing by my research and my memory, it’s still only got 4% of the market. It’s still a very diverse market. I’m going to say something, I’m not totally sure I’m correct, but normally them buying something like Redfin, and they’re going to get into the government is going to get heavy quick with them. But in the present political environment, I don’t think that’s going to happen for the foreseeable future. I don’t see the heat coming on Rocket that hard. So I can see the logic for Rocket doing this, because whatever you think of Dan Gilbert and his team, they’re not idiots. They’re far from it. I don’t think… I think what you’ve just said about Redfin and the attitude, the President and the CEO is correct, but they’re not They’re not idiots, but I think they fed on their own dog food, as I would put it.

[00:16:42.140] – Jonathan Denwood

The thing with Rocket, Rocket has had its problems, hasn’t it? It’s had its brush in. A lot of mortgage companies have had their brush with the government and the organizations of government. They look at the numbers that hit the website, and they think they can do something with Redfin, and Redfin’s agents will recommend Rocket as their mortgage company. I think Red Finns’ business model is so awful I’m not too sure about that. I’ll just be interested in your thoughts about that.

[00:17:36.590] – Robert Newman

I’m going to share them when we come back from break. So ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to take a short break here. And when we come back, I’m going to go through some of the statistics and some of the things that this HousingWire article, which I just sped read as we were on the show. But full transparency, the article said what I basically said just in more detail and gave more numbers, more stats. Some of the stats I found to be really revelatory I didn’t know them. I didn’t know the stats. I knew the business model brokenness, but it led to some really interesting numbers. So stay tuned and we’re going to walk through those. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 486. Is that right?

[00:18:22.540] – Jonathan Denwood

Something. It’s 468.

[00:18:24.350] – Robert Newman

468, sorry. Mental dyslexia. 468. And we’re talking This was about this acquisition of Redfin by Rocket Mortgage. Before we went to break, I was saying that I would cover some numbers. The article in HousingWire basically agreed with me. They said that effectively that this model was broken. Now, that model being broken led to some very interesting numbers. In 2021, Red Finns’ age and count fell by 22. 5% In the same year, the real brokerage went up by 11, 173%, Fathom Realty by 136%, Compass by 78%, eXp by 64%. All of these are newer companies in growth in the middle of their growth phase. But honestly, the number one reason that was listed by top performers at Red Fin for leaving was they felt like their income was capped. Exactly what I just said. And so they lost not just agents, they lost their best agents. That’s a problem for any sales organization. When you’re doing large scale sales, if you can’t keep your best people, that’s an antithesis for a mediocre company at best, if not just a downright massive failure. Another thing about their model was since everybody was on W2s, they created a much higher cost that had nothing to do with production.

[00:20:01.110] – Robert Newman

The header for the way that this article says that there was no room for error, financially speaking. But honestly, compensation based on performance business models mean that all of your salespeople take the hit when the economy is slow. Generally, John, because I’ve done nothing but sales my entire life, you lose your top, your lower 80% sales agents. You keep your top 20%. So then you think about that because The top 20% figure out a way to produce. They take a hit in their income, but they do figure out a way to produce, which means both the business and the agents succeed. And you’re not pressuring the agents to stay. They are looking at the career that they built for themselves and saying, I can still make some money. And so they go out and they do it. The lower 80% can’t make money because they were never great salespeople and weren’t hustling to start with. So they leave and they really impact the business very little. So the thing that the business does by itself with these compensation models is it stays in operation, it loses its money, but its top salespeople stay. Does that make sense?

[00:21:12.440] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, totally.

[00:21:13.450] – Robert Newman

W2 models Don’t do that. And they’ve got to support the cost of lower performing salespeople in bad marketplaces. And that’s what happened with Redfin. According to this article, and I agree, that’s what it basically said. Last Last but not least, and this is probably the most important part that the HousingWire article covers, lower commissions meant little to clients. I’m going to say that again. I know you know this, John, so it’s really for the people in the back seats of this podcast. Lower commission made very little difference to clients. That means at the end of the day, the 1-2% that clients saved did not mean very much to them, especially when it started to come into elements of service. But why? For that 1-2 % you’re paying a top salesperson, your experience could be as much as 80 % better. John and people like us break our fucking asses for your five-star review. We do, and it bothers us. It intellectually grabs us because we care. Whereas poor salespeople or even average for people either don’t pay attention, that I’m being kind, or they don’t care, and now I’m not being kind. And it doesn’t matter because somebody who’s vested in their business cares a lot.

[00:22:44.080] – Robert Newman

John, Do you care? You’ve done crazy things for five-star reviews, right? I have. Have you?

[00:22:52.060] – Jonathan Denwood

I’ve written a pony for a five-star.

[00:22:56.250] – Robert Newman

I’ve eaten thousands of dollars worth of business operating expenses to either get, keep, or maintain a good review profile. There’s no level, which means that the client who was legitimately unhappy or thought that they deserve something, they never would have gotten it from me if I hadn’t been paying attention to my online reputation. And this is the difference between maybe an average company or a low-performing company and a high-performing company. And it does make a difference to the customer.

[00:23:32.910] – Jonathan Denwood

So can we get on? Why do you think… It’s obvious. Why do you think Rocket bolts it? Because they’re not idiots, Dan and his crew. Obviously, they’re synergy, but also, I might be totally wrong. They think that in the articles I’ve read, they think they can cut the cost base down enormously as well.

[00:24:04.300] – Robert Newman

Oh, they will.

[00:24:05.850] – Jonathan Denwood

But do you think they also feel, because they’ve done it in the mortgage, so they’ve managed to get people to buy mortgages online. I think they might also think that they can do something with the fundamental model. And then you can’t discount them, because if they didn’t got away from the particular restraints of the particular business model with Redfin, they do have the experience and ability, I would have thought, to do something.

[00:24:44.900] – Robert Newman

Now, what I’m saying about Redfin, which is basically, listen, you’ve talked about it a lot. I’m going to give these guys the error of margin, just a margin of error. These entrepreneurs just started that were just inexperienced, didn’t know what the hell they were doing. I’m just going to say that they were woefully underskilled for the thing that they did. They still, they brought it to life and they did something, and that’s more than most people do. So I say that with a grain of salt. But the guy that runs Rocket is a beast of a different color. He knows exactly what he’s doing. I have a lot to say about Rocket that is all good.

[00:25:23.730] – Jonathan Denwood

Can I just interrupt? There’s a term in North London for people like Dan Gilbert. We Monster Mashes. He’s a Monster Mash. That’s a North London. It’s the endearment. It means that he’s a monster. He’s somebody that if you go up against him, you don’t really want to do you do it? You got to really think serious before you go up against Dan Gilbert.

[00:25:53.540] – Robert Newman

There’s a few different things. Number Rocketbot in a perfectly-timed market acquisition. Let’s not ignore that fact. Redfin was in the middle of absorbing losses due to yet another massive shift in the real estate market, eating it, taking it on the chin. They had made some changes in the business that are likely we’re going to continue to see benefit from, such as Redfinnext, which is them going back to a traditional compensation model. The problem is you’ve got 12 years of history however long it’s been where they built a company up under a different model. And once you’ve got that pace, the only way to really shake things up is to start another brand or let somebody acquire you. That’s exactly what happened here. Rocket acquired the company is going to rebrand and probably drop everything into a regular compensation model. But on top of all of that, they got the company to steal, John. 1. 75 billion, are you joking me? Compass raised seven billion out of the gate. This is ridiculous. It’s a pittance. They bought the company with that pittance, and they now have a search portal. They now have a Salesforce. They now have market synergies with their mortgage company.

[00:27:16.740] – Robert Newman

It was a brilliant move by Rocket. Brilliant. It’s going to add so much value, not to mention, I don’t know that anybody else has noticed this, but the logo and branding between Rocket and Redfin is already similar. It was just a genius move on Rocket’s part. Then gives these guys like Glenn and other people like him, they can gracefully sunset out and become like all the other second-tier players in the tech space. I have half a billion dollars. Let me throw it into other things and maybe they’ll get lucky because they’re not, which is what happened to the guys, the PayPal Mafia. There’s a lot of second-tier entrepreneurs, and then there’s Elon Musk, who is truly driving innovation, no matter what you say about him, driving innovation, things like that. Glenn Kalman needs to be retired because he swings and misses a lot. So let the guy retire. Veroon needs some room to run, and he’s going to get it. That’s my overall opinion. He’s really going to get his room to run.

[00:28:29.480] – Jonathan Denwood

I think the other That’s great. I think the only important thing is regulation because I think Rocket with lending the two businesses, but it’s still a very fragmented business. So their market share But I think they would have some normally. But I think in the present climate, they’re not going to get it. Shall we finish off with Open Door? Another great success story.

[00:28:57.430] – Robert Newman

This has been our primary podcast. We’re going to give you some bonus content today. John did. We had a lot to say about Redfin. For those of you who are watching this on YouTube, do us a favor, take a moment, take a beat, take a breath, and give us a thumbs up on if you liked what we’ve done, if you like John’s content, if you like the research, the show notes, all the things that we did, trying to just give you a little bit of information to apply here. Now, we’re going to talk about OpenDore. I actually know a lot more about OpenDore because I’m a member of the Motley Fool, and Motley Fool talks about OpenDore all the time. I’m much more familiar with what’s going on with OpenDore than I was with Redfin. If you’d like to reach out to you, though, John, how would you like people to do that?

[00:29:45.850] – Jonathan Denwood

I’ll just go to the mail-right. Com website, have a look what we got, you’d be blown away, and just book a chat with me, and I’d love to show you what MailRight offers.

[00:29:57.940] – Robert Newman

Back over to you, Rob. If you’d like to know more about SEO long-form, like inbound strategies where people passively come to you, if you’re interested in to see how I think marketing is being shifted in the information age, Go to inboundrem. Com. Read any of our articles, or if you really have liked what you heard on the show today, if you want to just gab about these real estate portals, go ahead and schedule a call with me. I’d be happy to share my thoughts in more detail. We’re going to move on to OpenDore, which if for those of you that don’t know, is a company that simply acquisition homes and then sold them on a platform. That’s the really basic part of Opendoor. Everybody loved the business model so much, they jumped in on it, including Redfin, including Zillow, and then everybody, for the most part, has retreated out of that industry except for OpenDore, which is the biggest one. There’s still a couple of other players, but OpenDore is the biggest player. So with that opening, let’s get into, John, why did you even include them at the end of the podcast?

[00:31:02.640] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I just thought it was just insightful. Over the last couple of years, I’ve had little comments about Redfin, haven’t I? I’ve been diligent in my kicking of them, haven’t I? But open door, every mother, I was going to swear there, has got into this model, wholesaling, where you got the convenience, but people, their biggest purchase, most people’s biggest purchase, do they really want to give you 30 plus of their equity in one of their biggest assets of their life. Unless they’re forced to, or it’s a secondary asset, they’re probably not, are they? But if the market’s going up every month by 2, 3%, you don’t need so much margin, do you? Unless something fundamental changes in the economy, which you can’t In the interesting times that we live in, you can have a discount. I really don’t see things fundamentally getting better for opened door. What do you think?

[00:32:31.910] – Robert Newman

All right, transparently, everybody I own is some shares of OpenDore. All right, this is not investment advice. I think it was a disruptive business model. I think that there’s space for it. I think this is just a horrible time for OpenDore to be around. It higher interest rates, an uncertain market, inventory problems. If you’re looking for the highest priced car on the lot, John, of course, you don’t buy it off a website. Or if you do, you want to walk into it and look at it. When interest rates are this high, real estate is not commoditized, wow, do you ever… Even a crappy home in my neighborhood costs so much money. I can’t buy it off a website. There’s certain markets where you could maybe still, not many, though, Virginia, West Virginia, we could still buy something for $150,000. Sure, maybe OpenDore would there, but where most markets are so incredibly overpriced. However, having said all that, what do I think? I think there’s room, space, and I think just like everything else, I think that homes will be bought off a website as technology catches up. I think that virtual tours with headsets and things like that, I think we’re walking into an age where a lot of people want to buy sight-unseen or at least use, and if OpenDore really had Some forward-thinking members there.

[00:34:03.870] – Robert Newman

They would do open-door showrooms where you could walk in and use these headsets and basically create a mechanism in which you could buy a lot of inventory online. I do think that And I think the model is there, and I think open-door is the leader. I don’t know that they’re going to survive. The reason I bought them is they’re dirt cheap and they have some momentum. I’m not even saying that it’s an endorsement. It’s probably one of the riskiest proposals for the I have vested like that, that I have in my entire portfolio because they also could announce it going out of business tomorrow. And I wouldn’t be surprised.

[00:34:41.560] – Jonathan Denwood

You’re a good salesperson because you always sold it to me. I follow the logic and admire your sales ability because I want to kick it in. I think it’s a race as we would say in London. It’s a rabid dog. It needs to be put it down.

[00:35:04.280] – Robert Newman

I understand. I understand the thoughts. I know where it’s at, but I disagree with the… If it’s not them, it will be someone else. I believe that with all of my heart, John, or I wouldn’t say it on the podcast.

[00:35:22.680] – Jonathan Denwood

I would never buy a house unless I saw it. I would even consider it. But a lot of people, you’re right. You’re right. I wouldn’t do it, but I’m just an old geezer, so what do I know?

[00:35:46.120] – Robert Newman

Well, age and wisdom tend to say that one of the most critical decisions you’ll make, you’ve got to do it. But you know what? Great salespeople always overcome those objections, such as a sometimes rock-solid guarantee, and if you don’t like it, you can give it back to us. We offer you $5,000 for the inconvenience. I can go on and on. There’s always a way to overcome somebody’s reluctance if you have deep enough pockets and are sure about your investment. I’m certain that the people running Open Door have some of that going on. But ultimately speaking, Open Door is probably something that most people, except for those of you who are most, whether it’s on the investment side or whether it’s on the I need to buy a house side. If you are a bleeding edge person with plenty of room for risk inside your home purchase or investment life, then this, I don’t know, maybe you do, look at it. I have plenty of room for risk, John, on both sides of my life. I don’t have a deep…

[00:36:52.880] – Robert Newman

Depending on how low the thing is trading, there’s a 30 or 40 % chance that this is a 100 times investment. Regarding the real estate market, we only need one big upset, and the open door will be back. Like all we need. We need mortgage rates to come down. We need a little bit of it. We need the inventory to continue to spike up. And all of a sudden, anything that pressures people to buy homes, which we haven’t had since the pandemic, we’re seeing the natural deflation of need based upon an overinflation of need a few years ago. And so we’ll see, and we have a wild card running policy in the US.

[00:37:37.010] – Jonathan Denwood

That’s a very diplomatic way of putting it, Rob.

[00:37:43.870] – Robert Newman

Are you looking to go into politics, Rob?

[00:37:49.190] – Jonathan Denwood

No.

[00:37:51.390] – Robert Newman

Oh, no.

[00:37:52.380] – Jonathan Denwood

That was very much.

[00:37:53.130] – Robert Newman

I love the fact that you put it here. For those of you listening and watching this show, listen, come on, man, everybody, engage with John and me. Could you call us up? I’d love to hear what you think about Open Door. For those of you who are listening to this show, you can’t go wrong with John’s offer. Call John if you’re looking to move inside your marketing and your budget has reduced, but you still want a competent provider on the other end of the equation. Call him, please, because you can’t go wrong with the offer he’s built for you. He’s built an offer and changed his offer for the market at large. For those of you who are more veterans and looking to shift your budget from things that are no longer working, such as direct marketing and advertising, InboundREM is a good place to look. And you can go to inboundrem.com and schedule a call with me. Having said all that, John, this is a good place to wrap it up for me. Was there anything else you wanted to add?

[00:38:51.190] – Jonathan Denwood

I’d come out with a good one-line as Monster Mash, Raby Dog. I thought it was exciting to Tatey.

[00:39:00.650] – Robert Newman

Hey, you did it at the perfect time. I introduced you as English in this show.

[00:39:06.380] – Jonathan Denwood

We’ll see you later, folks. Bye.

[00:39:09.000] – Robert Newman

Bye.