#463 – The Mail-Right – Best Real Estate Agent CRM Software in 2025

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Best Real Estate Agent CRM Software in 2025

Looking for the top real estate agent CRM in 2025? Discover the ultimate tool to manage clients, automate marketing, and grow your success.

In this video, we explore the top real estate agent CRM software options for 2025. Discover the features that set these platforms apart, including automation, lead management, and integration capabilities. Whether you’re a seasoned agent or just starting out, finding the right CRM can transform your business. Tune in to learn about the best tools available and how they can enhance your productivity and client relationships. Don’t miss it.

Best Real Estate Agent CRM Software in 2025

#1 – LionDesk Bought by Lone Wolf

https://www.liondesk.com/

New Price of $39 per month

#2 – Wise Agent

Prices $49 + per month

https://wiseagent.com

#3 – Realvolve

Prices $94 per month

https://www.realvolve.com

#4 – Follow Up Boss

Prices $69 + per month

https://www.followupboss.com/

#5 – Top Producer

Prices $179 + per month

https://www.topproducer.com

#6 – Brian Buffini

Prices $49 +

https://win.buffini.com/company/pricing/

#7 – ClickUp

https://clickup.com/

https://clickup.com/templates/real-estate-agent-t-4392666

Episode Full Show Notes

[00:00:06.270] – Robert Newman

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mail-Right podcast. We talk about real estate marketing and will talk precisely about that again today. We will talk about real estate CRMs, and John has created a fantastic list for all of you. And before I go off on one, for those of you who follow along, believe it or not, today’s episode number is 463 times. John has done this 463 times. I’ve done this about 200 times now, and some odd times. John, who are you? Who is the man who would do 463 podcasts, for crying out loud?

[00:00:48.200] -Jonathan Denwood

I’ve got another podcast I did this morning, and we were on 950.

[00:00:53.830] – Robert Newman

Oh, my goodness gracious. Well, come on, man. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

[00:00:59.230] -Jonathan Denwood

I don’t know. I’ve lost the plot. I don’t know. Do you know if I exist? No. I’m the joint founder of Mel-right. Com. We’re CRM. We also use Facebook and Instagram, providing a great digital platform for real estate agents. Back over to you, Rob.

[00:01:20.190] – Robert Newman

I will help you out a little bit, John. As you can probably tell, John is a transplant from England, but he’s been here a long time. He’s He’s an entrepreneur. He started more than one company. He owns more than one SAAS, Software as a Service Company. He’s an experienced WordPress developer, so much so that his other podcast, briefly mentioned, is one of WordPress’s most popular listen-to podcasts.

[00:01:47.970] -Jonathan Denwood

It’s one of the most notorious.

[00:01:51.640] – Robert Newman

Well, I’ll say it my way, you say it your way. So he knows a lot about WordPress, and that’s what he built the platform for real estate agents on, is WordPress, and he’s got a good all-in-one system that is less expensive and still managed directly by a founder. And so obviously, when we do these podcasts, we’re hoping-That’s a sad statement.

[00:02:14.360] -Jonathan Denwood

I’m just waiting for Loan Wolf to buy me out, Robert.

[00:02:18.030] – Robert Newman

Oh, my goodness. All right. Well, as I was going to say, we do this podcast, we are our own sponsors. Obviously, it’s to introduce ourselves. We’re going to be talking about a lot of products that are going to fit very well into John’s universe today. People that are looking for good deals on tools that do a lot should look at Mailright along with this list because he does have a CRM in it. But having said that, we’re going to dive into a list of real estate CRMs, most of which are fairly affordable, that you could theoretically use to power the contact part of your business. Do you agree with everything I just said there, John?

[00:02:58.410] -Jonathan Denwood

As always, it’s It’s only occasionally that I disagree, isn’t it?

[00:03:02.920] – Robert Newman

All right. Well, number one on our list, because we were joking about it before we turned the camera on, is Loan Wolf. I remembered Loan Wolf being a website producer, and he’s like, Do you know Loan Wolf? I’m like, I don’t know that I know a Loan Wolf that’s going to be out there buying up CRM companies. But boy, was I wrong? The Loan Wolf that I remember building websites is indeed the Loan Wolf that’s out there buying up CRM. I guess they just didn’t like what they had or are going to roll this tool into one.

[00:03:29.050] -Jonathan Denwood

But anyway, I’m the people that bought Serentractive.

[00:03:34.310] – Robert Newman

It might be. And what a shame for Serentractive. I just dropped a review, literally, from one of their best accounts that has said, ever since they sold it, services dropped through the floor. And I’m getting ready to drop that review, John. He actually was so dissatisfied. He actually got on camera while still a customer of theirs and did a review with me. All right, before we go off on yet another tangent, because there’s only been four for those who are trying to count along with us, we are going to talk about this Lion Desk and acquisition by Lone Wolf and what we generally think of Lion Desk. I’m going to go. I’m going to keep it short and simple. I always thought it was too complicated. I was never the biggest fan of Lion Desk. It’s extremely reasonably priced. With being acquisitioned by a company that has a history of acquisitioning companies without being able to properly integrate them into a workflow or support system would not be something I would look at unless you’re desperate. That’s my opinion. Jon, go.

[00:04:48.170] -Jonathan Denwood

Yeah. Well, they did have a two-price structure, a 25 and 83, until recently, which the 83 really didn’t make much sense to me. Well, since they got bought out by Loan Whorff, they seem to only have one price now, $39, which is in some ways makes more sense to me, right? Because definitely the ’83 didn’t make much sense to me for what you were getting compared to the competition. It’s got a reasonably okay interface. It’s pretty… It’s to my taste. The main thing they seem to plug is they have a video, mess messaging platform, which is a direct competitor to Bombom. And Bombom, if you’re into that marketing, folks, where in your database, you send individual to potential clients or keeping contact or re-energise a relationship. Bonbon is a great platform, but it’s I wouldn’t say expensive, but it’s not cheap, depending on what is your budget, your marketing budget. Well, Linedesk built a similar product. It’s not as featured rich as Bonbon, and it’s one of the main cause, and also in relation with robo-calling. I discussed that to some degree because I think the days are ringing for leads, in my opinion, because of smartphones like the iPhone is dying.

[00:06:58.310] -Jonathan Denwood

But other Other experts, other agents would highly disagree with me. It’s okay at $39, it’s probably okay, isn’t it, for what you get, for what you can do with And it’s one of the better ones compared to some of the other ones we’re going to be talking about.

[00:07:21.080] – Robert Newman

I don’t disagree with that. Forgive my frustration, everyone. This features and functionality. You take a website that’s extremely basic, like most of the ones that KVCORE sell. Chime has a nicer-looking website, but still it’s a template and it’s basic. And guess what? They quote you monthlies of $500, $1,000 a month. Kvcore and Chime are both $500 a month. Now, when compared against that, John, this is a windfall because, my God, $470 a month difference for functionality Does Lion Desk deliver on that margin? Hell, yeah. Hell, yes, it does. Is it a great tool? No, you get $39 worth of a tool, in my opinion. It’s overly complicated. I’ve taken five seconds to refresh myself, and I’m already lost with this guy who’s showing all the pages. There’s a list of things on the left that’s nice and seamless, like contacts, communication tasks, campaigns. Then you You start getting to each task and there’s a hundred fields to fill out every time. Like my office, branch office, agent. There’s literally 20 drop-downs just to identify lead source. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s good. You might need that. But like I said from the gate, they built a one-size-fits-all tool.

[00:08:48.800] – Robert Newman

It’s not like if you’re an agent or a broker, you get a different tool, you get this tool. Some people, it’s going to be overkill, and other people, it’s not. It’s like the three… It’s Goldilocks and the three bears. One, two, cold, one too hot, and somebody right in between. And if you are the right in between for $39 a month, is that a serviceable CRM? Hell, yes, for that one in between person. All right, let’s move on to the next on the list. I am maybe feeling a little punchy like you were last week. Number two is wise agent, certainly a popular one for sure. Why don’t you lead us off?

[00:09:27.200] -Jonathan Denwood

Do I have to?

[00:09:30.190] – Robert Newman

Well, now for sure.

[00:09:35.640] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, it’s $49. That’s not good, ladies and gentlemen, when you open with, Well, It’s $49.

[00:09:46.340] – Robert Newman

That’s terrible. Okay, go ahead, John.

[00:09:51.380] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, they do have a mobile app. I think it It does a lot of what Line Desk does without the video. I don’t think they got a video tool that directly competes. I notice when you go to features, their lead generation, their plugin, which is an extra. I really wouldn’t buy into their lead generation system. What I heard, it doesn’t… These are my opinions. No, they’re just my opinions, folks. Take them as what they are. They do real estate content. That’s on the top of their feature list. I would strongly advise you to not take either those. I think on the basic offering, which I said, is $49. I wouldn’t But if you’re just going to use their platform for the actual contact information, follow through, as a traditional CRM should be used. As long as you like the interface, I think you’re going to be okay. It’s just… And what we discussed last week with some of the three offerings out there, when I had my little rant, when I say it’s this confusion between lead generative platforms and traditional CRMs and the total confusion of mixing all this up and dealing with expectations and what you’re really going to get from the system and And long as you really understand what you’re going to get from Wise Agent, I think we’re going to be happy.

[00:12:11.360] -Jonathan Denwood

But if you’ve got certain expectations which I think the Wise Agent website, in my opinion, fosters, I think you could be very disappointed.

[00:12:32.480] – Robert Newman

Okay. My opinion about most of these platforms, ladies and gentlemen, is pretty simple. And I hate to say this because most of our audience, 2,000 or 3,000 of you that listen to our podcast, listen, real estate agents are not technical people. And unfortunately, I’ve never seen a profession that gets paid on more, except maybe auto shop owners than agents do. You are sold something from every human being under the sun, always promised that it’s going to be the best thing that you’ve ever purchased. Almost invariably what people are doing, like Wise Agent and every other CRM, for the most part, they’re not building anything that is unique or new. What they’re trying to do is build something that’s competent that you will not know whether it’s bleeding edge or not. And then you will simply decide for yourself by using it, in all these tools are a golden handcuffs situation. Why is agent… Once you’re in it, you’ve taken 20 of your hours to learn how to use it, and you’ve got all your data imported into it, how easy is it for you to switch? Because the answer is not, which is why best real estate CRM and best real estate CRM software are two of the most expensive searches in all of real estate marketing, $10.

[00:14:00.270] – Robert Newman

52 and $8. 26 for those searches. And why is that? Because real estate agents who are looking to change want to change once. Nobody is a fool. For those of you who are listening to this show, unless you’re going to find a good partner. This is the one thing I’ll say about MailRight or any other system. And I’ve said this before, I’m going to say it again. I don’t know the system nearly well enough to actually show for John, and he gets very frustrated with me at times. But I will tell you something I’m extremely I’m extremely confident in. Having a partner who is still willing to talk to you as a customer, a partner that will address you personally, is worth all the bells and whistles that every system out there has in my opinion, 100 %. The fact that I still can interact with my clients, not as much anymore, but I still do it. John does it. You can get him on the phone, you can talk to him. The answering of these questions adds massively to the perceived value of a technical tool. Having somebody there, you agree with this?

[00:15:05.260] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, I think the support element and the training element is an important factor. I don’t think, to be fair to wise agent, they’ve never sold themselves as a direct competitor to real geek, or Sarah Interactive, or somebody of the other more lead generative platforms. I just pointed out, if you go to their feature page, they are pushing the lead generated elements of wise agent, which I haven’t reviewed it for over a year. When I last reviewed it, and I’m only going by my memory, they did have those elements, but they were pitching themselves as a more modern version of top producer. And I had no problem with that. And I still don’t have any problems with it, really, because it’s $49, right?

[00:16:14.190] – Robert Newman

Right. And you can build a website out of it, too. It’s basically a Wix for 49 instead of eight, and you can build on top of Wise Agent. And if all of you were like the people listening to the show, if you’re a brand new agent, God, good Lord, yes, look at Wise Agent. Don’t Maybe you don’t even look at me or John. We’re probably too expensive for somebody who’s trying to, let’s say, start a business with the change in their pocket, which both of you and I have done, by the way.

[00:16:39.030] -Jonathan Denwood

I’m going to be truthful. I’m looking at doing a product. We have the IDX product, and we have the paid Facebook, and I’m going to keep those two options, but I’m looking at offering a solution at this price level. We have the other two, but the main one is this. Because you got to play in the reality of where you’re playing. Shall we go on to the next one?

[00:17:14.490] – Robert Newman

Now, before we go to break. Ladies and gentlemen, John and I are going to take a break, share a smoke, talk about all the strippers that we hired this weekend, and come back to you. We’ll be right back. All right, ladies Ladies and gentlemen, we’re coming back to you after our long break discussing so many things, religion, all the meaning of life, whether or not we have a towel. And here we go. We’re going to talk more about CRMs because we know that ultimately that’s why you’re tuning into the show. It’s episode number 463, for those of you who are keeping track. For those of you who’ve been with us since the beginning of this particular episode, you’ll know that John has another show he’s done 900 episodes on. This is my only podcast. I’m not going to say that’s going to be true forever, but it’s currently my only podcast. We’ve managed to make it two down our list of six because John and I love to hear ourselves talk. We’re going to talk about reEvolve. Once again, my friend, I’m going to let you take this $94 a month monster and talk to people about it.

[00:18:22.210] – Robert Newman

Go for it.

[00:18:24.360] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, in my opinion, I have no idea why somebody would use this for $94 on this.

[00:18:33.500] – Robert Newman

There you go. All right, that’s it from John. Don’t use them. That’s it from me. All right, follow-up, boss, number four on the list. So now this is a beast, and I’m going to take up the torch here because I have a 45 minute long review with these guys. I could not be a stronger fan of the tool. And I used to be an unabashed fanboy of Followed Boss until they sold themselves to Zillow, which they did for half a billion dollars. So all the owners really came out of this massive winners.

[00:19:11.630] -Jonathan Denwood

But-lovely, gravy, gravy.

[00:19:14.590] – Robert Newman

Right. So do I love this tool the same way? Straight up from just the ownership perspective, because it would require zero for these guys. To, forgive me, I was about ready to curse everybody. These guys to change the Julia and you won’t notice. They may have already done it. I haven’t read through their terms. Here’s the slight change that can happen. The data is secure, but we technically own the rights. That’s what the language will say in legalese. That means that effectively, Trulia and Zillow just went for a play for all of your data. No doubt about it, there’s no other reason for them to make the purchase. They said all All this glorious language about fucking making a better CRM for their agent.

[00:20:04.420] -Jonathan Denwood

He started to swear, folks.

[00:20:05.670] – Robert Newman

It’s just baloney. It’s a smokescreen. Mark my words. They’re making a play for the data. And so does that make me a fan of follow-up it anymore, not to the same degree. So it’s still the best tool, in my opinion. Best real estate specific tool, not the best tool in general, but absolutely 100 %. And when you compare that you can get a better tool for than you can for 500 or a thousand. It’s better than Real Geeks. It’s better than Sierra Interactive. It’s better than Chime. It’s better-I would disagree with you there a little bit, in that your follow-up boss is a bit of a…

[00:20:48.950] -Jonathan Denwood

The bits that follow-up boss does is obviously you are correct. It’s just that the other three products that you’ve just mentioned, as based on our last week’s discussion, they are pitching themselves as a website CRM lead generative system. I around IDX website presence where follow-up doesn’t offer that. It is lead generative in how you use a CRM.

[00:21:27.760] – Robert Newman

All right. Then I’ll change my comment, and I’ll say this, the differentiation about whether or not you collect a lead with an IDX tool on a subpar website, and all the websites at this point, including Sierra Interactive, are subpar for the day and time in which they’re launching their sites. I got that from a top account. I didn’t realize how far they’d fallen off, and they’ve fallen off. I’ve been a fanboy of Sierra Interactive also for a super long time, John. So it’s unlike me to say anything negative about one of the leading real estate website developers that’s out there. But they have not kept up with the times. He says his website does not work well on mobile at all, and that’s 69 % of his traffic. That’s not my friend.

[00:22:09.570] -Jonathan Denwood

That’s indefensible, really. But get back to follow up, boss. For $69, you are right. So do frame that. Rob’s right. Of everything we’re going to talk about, it is head above all the other products we have talked about or going to talk about in this episode is the clear leader. Would I suggest that you use it or recommend it to you? No. Because it’s owned by Zillow, end of story. In my opinion, there’s a lot of my opinions in this episode, isn’t it? Rumpa, it’s my opinion. I would not want to share my database, my hard-earned contacts, my blood and sweat and just give it to Zillow. No, thank you. It’s just sad. I don’t blame the founders of Follow Up Boss because it’s a fantastic I’ve come for them. I’ve got no criticism of them. We all live in the real world. We all want to do well. There’s nothing wrong with that. You’re not a jerk and a con artist. But It’s now owned by Zillow, and I wouldn’t use it.

[00:23:34.770] – Robert Newman

Yeah. Moving on. Next on our list is Top Producer, and I’m going to start us off because, John, there’s literally nothing you could say that’s going to be worse than what I say.

[00:23:48.500] -Jonathan Denwood

Okay? Sure, because I’ve got some right comments.

[00:23:52.460] – Robert Newman

So Top Producer is one of the oldest CRMs on our list. They literally have been around for so long at the time that they launched, they were one of three top products. There’s 300 real estate CRMs now, to give everybody an understanding. Topreducer has not, really… They have done a few overhauls of their UI and their UX. But here’s one of the things they never did overhaul. Their prices are redonkulous. They have a dated tool and they charge you five times more for it than anybody else will. The level of insanity is- It’s focused off in it. Is beyond comprehension. The only reason that top producer is a business is because some agents are so loathe to learn new tools. They are literally limping along with this dinosaur paying whatever top producer does. Why? Because 20 years ago, top producer was the leading real estate CRM, or one of them, one of the top three for sure. And now they’re still around. Thankfully to all of you real estate professionals out there who would rather go to the dentist and learn a new CRM. John?

[00:25:13.200] -Jonathan Denwood

When I was checking it and I was reading posts and doing my research. There you go, Robert, research. It was coming up $120 start, and then I go to their website and their price starts at $179, Rob. Plus other packages. And it’s just unbelievable, isn’t it?

[00:25:44.760] – Robert Newman

Their I have not kept up with the times. There’s so much competition coming up from the bottom up. John included, by the way, everybody. John included so much competition because more can be done with technology for less, from the development side, from everything. It doesn’t make it easier for John to spend 100 grand building out a tool. It’s not fun, it’s not pleasant, and it takes a lot of time. But at the same time, once the tool is done, technology is advanced in such a way as like, I don’t need as many servers. I don’t need as much as anything in terms of technical infrastructure to run an SAS as I did, let’s say, even 10 years ago. And now, but top producer doesn’t pay any attention to that. Why? They can’t lower the prices to their existing account base. You are taking on a pricing metric that made sense 20 years ago, it no longer does in any way, shape, or form. God, don’t do it. That’s it. Told you it wouldn’t be worse than me. Now, this next one is completely different from me. I am going to keep talking because I do want to say something.

[00:26:57.140] – Robert Newman

I think that the Bafini method and their training program is one of the best things happening in real estate, in my opinion. I have met so many agents on the telephone that have gone through their coaching system and it has made a vast difference in their career. I have lost count. They might very well be the only real estate marketing and coaching company where I can say that definitively without question. They have a tool that goes along with their training, very similar to what Ricky Caruth has. My opinion about it is, heck, it may not be the best or the worst CRM, who the hell knows? I haven’t looked at it, but I will tell you this, if they’re going to train you on a tool, buy their tool. Buy their tool because you’ll be in a class. You’ll have many other people learning the tool. The learning through osmosis is a powerful thing when you’re using coaching systems. Go ahead, John. That’s my thing.

[00:27:48.470] -Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, the actual tool is not bad. If you’re just going to use it for a traditional sales-orientated CRM CRM that has terminology and flows that are Pacific for your industry, it’s certainly a damn lot better than Topproducer. And you can just use the tool. I’m going by their website for $49. The only thing, I don’t know if this is correct, I’m surmising this. The only problem is if you just try and buy the tool and start using it, they’re going to bombard you with sales calls, I would imagine. I would imagine they’re going to be over you like a load of flies on a dead bit of meat. But But also the other side of it is that I actually… My old co-host before you, he was a Bafini trained agent, and we interviewed the fact that Bafini himself and his brother. I know about their training methodologies, and I think they’re definitely more of the more respectable side of real estate agent training coaching companies. So that’s what I got What are you saying about it. So as long as you know, if you buy the tool, they’re going to send a lot of email, and they’re going to ring you up a few times and that.

[00:29:40.180] -Jonathan Denwood

And I’m not saying that. It’s totally bad to take some of their training But if you’re more experienced and you don’t feel you need their training, I actually think they’re tall. But it’s just about relationship-based and sales-based with a nice interface, and it’s not too It’s a bit complicated, and it’s actually compared to some of these others, I don’t actually… It’s a bit of a gem, really. A little bit of a gem, really. As long as you know what you’re buying. It’s not a website. It’s not an IDX website. It doesn’t provide canned campaigns for Facebook, and trying to manage a Facebook advertising account with no experience and blah, blah, blah. It doesn’t try and be those. In some ways, I think it’s a more honest platform. Does this making in any sense, Rob?

[00:30:46.430] – Robert Newman

Yeah, it does. I love everything you have to say about it. I knew walking into this that you added them there because you and I have had a lot of positive experiences. People have been trained by them. The idea that they build their business off of is a solid sales mechanic. They oftentimes are very focused, don’t seem to pretend to be something that they’re not. As a result, they’ve got more positive outcomes of any coaching training company that I know of that I’ve dealt with, including Tom Ferry. Mike Ferry actually does have a very good track record, but only for a certain type of salesperson. Having said all that, we’re going to move on to the last on the list. John is going to take this up as well because he’s a user and he added them twice. So he really wants to talk about this company.

[00:31:37.050] -Jonathan Denwood

Clickup. Well, linked to our last show, I think if you follow up, boss, is a superb product. Well, it’s not perfect, but compared… And it’s just a shame, but I could never recommend it anymore. But if you’re not bothered that you’re, in my opinion, even though they would deny this, As long as you’re not worried that your data is going to be shared with Zillow, go ahead. It’s a great platform. But the others, apart from Brian Perfini’s platform. I think a lot of the others have the problem is that you could just use ClickUp and just use their free template, Design for Re-Estate Agents. You’re probably going to be quite happy. That’s why I’ve added it to the last thing, because they got a free product ClickUp. It integrates a lot better into a WordPress website and anything else you want. I see that as a problem for these other platforms.

[00:32:53.060] – Robert Newman

Copy you. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to do a little bit of bonus content, and I’m going to catch John off guard because I’m going to give a little bit of a history lesson here, which is relevant to the conversations we’re having, our RE, follow up, it’s ownership, and Zillow. Here’s the history lesson, because most of us have a memory that is minutes old. I’m not even sure that John was around and focused on the Zillow. Big companies have a tendency to do stuff like Zillow just did. They just their CEO. The previous CEO was notorious for shifting his view so much. By the way, let me give everybody an example. Zillow and all the companies before them got their momentum an idea behind a service called Listing Syndication. And every person that was asking for MLS Listings was telling those MLS companies that they were not going to compete against the MLS, that all they were going to do was promote the agent’s listing for free. And indeed, they did that for 10 years. Zillow and Trulia and all those others, they came along and said the same thing, We will promote your listing for free.

[00:34:08.690] – Robert Newman

That’s how they all got started. How else do you think they got these guys to send them their listings? Just out of goodness of their heart. Of course not. They said, Hey, we’re going to promote, we’re going to invest a billion dollars into a website, get the traffic that you can’t, and promote the listing for you for free. What fool would say no to that, right? But you can all see the punchline overwhelming. Then they started to advertise against those listings. Then what did they say? Because obviously, agents were outraged. They go, Hey, we don’t like you doing that. We don’t want to give you our listings anymore. They said, Oh, no, no, no, no. We’re We’re going to compete against you. This is for a different buyer, different person than what you’re trying to serve. These buyers just want to look online, and you’re still going to get all the appointments with boots on the ground. We’re not trying to compete against you. We’re just doing a little advertising thing over here and a couple of people They won the lawsuits because they were already a very big company, and we didn’t hear any more about it.

[00:35:05.720] – Robert Newman

But then, Zillow said, because some people started to say, Wow, you’ve got 40 or 50% of all traffic related to home searches. What a bitch it would be if you decided to be a real estate company against us, the realtors, to which Zillow said, We will never compete against realtors directly. They fucking lied. They absolutely had that plan on the books. I know some people that worked over there, and they just said what they needed to say to calm everybody’s anger. And then, of course, they opened up another division owned by the same company, but it directly competed against agents. And then on top of all that, what loophole did they find next? They then looked around and said, hey, You know what? For all of those of you who are upset about us competing with you directly, we’re going to come out with a new plan. You’re going to love it. It’s going to be great. I’m channeling Trump here. It’s the best plan that’s ever been made. Here’s what it’s called, Zillowlex. You know what Zillowlex does? They still qualify the leads mostly the same way. But what they do with Zillowlex is when they send you the lead, they say, Hey, $100 a month, signs you up for Zillowlex.

[00:36:27.450] – Robert Newman

Awesome, right? You don’t have to pay us $1,000 a month for advertising. But you do have to give us 30% of the deal when you close it. And that’s low. They’ve moved that deal, that percentage, up to 30 to 45% of the deal, and they’re aiming at a 50/50 split. That means effectively, ladies and gentlemen, 10% of the realtors in the US already work for Zillow right now. They are effectively competing. And what’s more, they make more money than your broker does. They make more money than everybody does. They’ve just done it better because whoever controls the lead flow controls the real estate business. Now, you would think, with all that I’ve just told you, that that would be enough, that over that 10 or 15 year history, that you would be, Okay, Robert, we get your point. But they did four other things, too, that were just insanely outside the margins of what they said they would do. Number one, they hired real estate agents. They hired top agents and brokers from all of the company and absolutely bribed them. They made them a Zillow board of trustees. They took influencers, people directly out of the industry, hired them on board their company, and then got people that were adamantly opposed to Zillow to come out and say, We’re no longer opposed.

[00:37:49.730] – Robert Newman

I do not know what these people are getting paid, but it’s an extraordinary amount of money. I know that from hearing rumors about it, and now these voices for the real estate profession get up there and chill like lobbyists for Zillow. I’m not going to go into the other things. Ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you something that I hope you really hear because you heard it here first. There has never been a company that has acted so maliciously against the profession that it supposedly serves. They are not your friends. They are 100% your competitors. Every single one of you that’s listening to this show that’s buying a Zillow lead, you are funding your top competitor. You are telling them, not only compete against me, beat me. Please, here’s my money. And you justify it because it’s an easy lead to get. I get it. I understand the easy way is always a way that’s so appealing. But God, please, everybody, you are dancing with the devil under the pale sunlight, and the jig is going to stop. I promise you. There’s coming a time… They already have beat everybody in search. There’s coming a time in which they will simply put most of you out of business.

[00:39:05.840] -Jonathan Denwood

It wasn’t for Google being more significant because for all their dominance of the real estate trade, for Google, they’re still a tiny bear. They’re like fleas compared to Google. Google dominates local searches, and they dominate to a certain degree. But it wasn’t for them; it would have been fleeing for Google. It would have been, and they would have achieved what they wanted. But that’s the reality. I don’t know if you agree that the only problem for them is, yeah, they’re big, but for Google, they’re nothing.

[00:39:47.330] – Robert Newman

Correct. That’s why we have opened up a whole local division, and I talk about locals incessantly. It is the way to traffic and eyeballs for the average realtor, and it does beat Zillow in many categories. Zillow locks up the home for-sale category. Regardless of what, Google would have to change its algorithm to get Zillow not to be dominant, and they have no desire to because, like every other major corporation out there, Zillow pays the green mail to… I mean, the budget for Zillow is millions upon millions of dollars a month to Google because they advertise against their own name. It’s always been a frustration for businesses, myself included. You can target inbound RM as a keyword and advertise against it. I would have to pay the same amount in the sponsor search results. It’s my company. It’s nuts. It doesn’t matter. All right, ladies and gentlemen, that’s it. We’re out of time. John, I hope I think… I’m so sorry for the ramp. It’s been a great show. It allowed me to say something that worked with the content that we were doing.

[00:40:47.500] – Robert Newman

This is our point about you handing your data over to Zillow. Follow-up, boss, is a necessary evil, but I would seek a reason to eliminate them immediately. I might even invest more a more complicated tool like HubSpot, which didn’t make John’s list, but I use HubSpot. It’s a good tool. It isn’t easy.

[00:41:07.630] -Jonathan Denwood

It’s not real- It’s just sad to say that. But it’s the reality.

[00:41:13.080] – Robert Newman

Yeah, it is. And they paid a hefty penny, but it’s not hefty to them. Half a billion, okay, a fraction of their bottom line. They’re still losing money. They don’t care. Just like Amazon did, because they’re playing the same game that Amazon did, they’re acquiring, buying up everybody, making moves until they decide to say, Hey, we’ve officially taken over a vast majority of the real estate business; nobody can fight them. That’s exactly what Amazon did with the e-commerce and shipping business. They just kept losing money, kept losing money, kept losing money, and then all of a sudden, they’re making a trillion dollars a year. All right, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening to my rant. You can go to inbound if you’d like to hear more on my rant. Com. Look at my services or About page; you can listen to me rant as much as you want. I usually talk about SEO, marketing lead generation, how to market yourself, etc. And lots of that content is on my website for free. You will learn a lot. I guarantee it. Jon, how would you like people to reach out to you?

[00:42:13.140] -Jonathan Denwood

Shiva, thanks, Rob. Let’s go to mail-right.com, and you can sign up for a free chat with me. What could you ask for? I’d love to chat with you. Back over to you, Rob.

[00:42:24.630] – Robert Newman

All right. John and I would like to thank the shows’ sponsors today, MailRight and InboundRAM. Com. We appreciate your patronage of the companies we both own and everybody listening to the show. Could you take us offline?