#237 Mail-Right Show With Special Guest: Chandler David Smith
Advice For Every New Real Estate Investor in 2020!
Chandler Smith started as a door to door salesman in 2012 selling pest control. In his first year, he broke the rookie record at Alterra pest control selling 459 accounts in less than four months, bringing in more than $220,000 of revenue in personal sales which Chandler used as personal property investment seed fund.
Jonathan: Welcome back folks to the Mail-Right show. This is episode 237. We really got a fun guest, I think it’s going to be a fantastic discussion. We’ve got Chandler David Smith with us. He is a young man but he’s managed to build a very large property portfolio. Really works hard, built his initial funding for his first properties through selling pest control, do door to door and he’s still in that but also he’s got a fantastic YouTube channel. I’ve been watching some of these videos, got great advice. Chandler, would you like to also introduce yourself to the listeners and viewers?
Chandler: Yeah, no, I’m excited to be here. Anything involving real estate or sales or marketing. I love it all and it’s been a lot of fun so I’m happy to be here.
Jonathan: That’s great. And I’ve got my great cohost, Robert. Robert, would you like to introduce yourself to the new listeners and viewers?
Robert: Sure. So I’m a 13 year veteran of the real estate marketing industry. I focus on the type of marketing that is not common called inbound marketing. And under that umbrella, things like SEO, things like that, you can find out more about me at inboundrem.com
Jonathan: I just want say to our new listeners and viewers last month wasn’t a record month but we got close to it, and I think this month will hopefully be a record month. We’ve had a substantial increase in the listeners and viewers this last week. So we must be doing and I thank you, new listeners and viewers and just tell you anybody in your office about the Mail-Right show. I’m sure they get great value from our conversations and especially from our guests. So Chandler, well I forgot, you know, obviously we live in very unusual times, with the virus, with everything being closed down. So, it’s probably going to affect most of this year in some way or another. How do you see the present situation affecting the investment sector and real estate in general?
Chandler: Yeah. It’s a great question and it’s funny because I’ve talked with a lot of my friends and mentors that are investing in real estate and have bigger portfolios than even I do. And I think one thing that I’ve found, they’ve all said is right now we still don’t completely know how bad this is going to be. And I think there are lots of people saying, hey, give this a little longer than they’re going to be blood in the streets. Others are saying, man, if we can get through this virus, we should hopefully bounce back to something close to normal. I think in my own opinion, I’m in a place where I’ve already seen it affect rents and I’ve been able to do certain things to maintain those rents, but I don’t think that can last forever. I do think that, you know, for the next couple months then maybe it’s three months, maybe it’s six months, but rents are going to be affected.
Chandler: However, I think supply and demand are always going to create a need for housing. And I think with that being the case, I’m not worried about the investments I have. But it’s why it’s been so crucial to make sure that you buy right and that you keep good reserves so that when something like this does happen, you can be prepared. I also think it’s an important time to make sure that you’re looking into the different options, the different things that the government’s providing, the different things that your bank is providing and just stay in the loop, see where things are at and keep a beat on it. But, from my perspective, I have kind of gone into a holding pattern where I’ve said, you know what, right now I’m not shopping really heavy. I’m going to give it a good two, three, four months.
Chandler: But I do believe whether this is really bad or just kind of bad, the combination of fear, um, and really just some people getting into financial issues because of what’s gone on is going to create opportunity. I really think that in the next couple months there’s going to be more opportunities on investment properties, whether that’s single family or multifamily, just depending on how bad the impact is in both of those areas. And so I have just kind of put some cash aside. And right now I’m waiting and I’ve seen some good deals I’ve actually decided to pass on just because I want to wait until things level out a little bit to be able to jump in on those deals because I think there are lots of better deals to come. So that’s kind of my perspective and where I’m standing with everything.
Jonathan: That’s great. Over to you Robert.
Robert: Well I mean I don’t really have, my questions are going to be more related to how you built the business because, well, actually, you know what, let’s start with a super high level question that, that tags into John’s commentary. I think that I am fascinated by the concept that you have such an active YouTube channel. If I’m not misunderstanding, like if I haven’t looked at it correctly, you have hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube channel, which is connected to buying and selling these properties, the investments that you just talked about. At a very high level, how do you think the YouTube, like does the YouTube channel help or hurt your business or like you seem to be really dedicated to it? What was the concept behind that? Why are you doing that?
Chandler: Yeah, it’s a great question. It’s really funny because when I started a YouTube channel, um, I was managing hundreds of sales reps and a lot of them were making a lot of money. And so they were coming to me saying, Chandler, where do we put it? We know you’ve been successful in investing in real estate. And I was answering those same questions over and, and over again. And so when I started the channel, it wasn’t to build anything. It was really to save my time so I could focus on what was important. And it was interesting because that was my only goal. And so when I started it and I started sharing it, it was incredible because I was just showing what I was doing, how I was investing, how I was spending my money. Some of the mistakes that I’ve made, the things that I had learned, and it was fascinating to watch it just draw a lot of people in.
Chandler: And what happened that I didn’t think would happen, and this is what kind of made me double down in the YouTube channel is, I was getting a lot more leads from other investors in my area and even outside out of my area. I was able to connect with more mentors and other people that were doing what I was doing, but some of them thought differently and even had more experience in the area that I was in. And so it gave me a chance to connect with them. It was creating leads of people that said, hey, how did you make this money? I want to do this sales job that you’re doing. And so it turned into this thing that gave me leads for everything that I was passionate about and everything that was making me money. And so originally it was to help people, but it’s brought in new employees for me.
Chandler: It’s brought in leads for my real estate business. It’s broadened in connections, mentors, all kinds of different opportunities that I never dreamed were going to be there. And once I saw those coming in, that’s where I said, okay, I’ve got to double down. I’m not doing one video a week. I’m going to start pumping out two to three videos a week. I’m going to start connecting with other YouTubers in this niche. I’m going to start really expanding this because I had no idea what it would create, but it was creating things that were bringing value. And so I wanted to bring more value to those people.
Robert: Okay. Hey John, I have a ton of questions.
Jonathan: You can ask whatever go on.
Robert: Okay. So I’m, and those of you who are listening to the show, listen, I apologize because this is going suck. But I’m going to do a shameless plug so that Chandler gets something out of this goat onto YouTube and Google Chandler David Smith, and check his channel out. So my question for you is, I really love the YouTube tiles that you’ve done. They feature an image of you and I’m just going to explain this so our listeners understand what I’m looking at. They usually feature an image of you, like you’re holding up something or you’re in the process of talking and then there’s really big text over the tile that makes the title of the video really, really apparent. And it’s, it’s just a very clean way to present them.
Robert: How did you do the tiles? Where did you pick that? That’s a pretty advanced marketing skill that even some of the best guys that I know aren’t necessarily doing it that way. So where did you come across that idea? What is the tool that you use to apply that idea, if you don’t mind me asking if it’s not a big secret?
Chandler: Yeah, no, totally. It’s funny because early on you can look at some of those thumbnails or those tiles and they are pretty bad. I mean, they’re rough. And that was when I was getting started. And what happened is I was lucky enough to be speaking at the same conference with Graham Stephan, Matt McKeever and Meet Kevin. Now if you do anything real estate or real estate investing where you’re watching on YouTube, they’re kind of the big dots in that niche. They’re very talented, they’re the best of the best. And I asked him, I said, what? What makes your channel stick? What makes people drawn to you? And they said channel, you got to get people to click on it and then you’ve got to hold them there once they’re there. If you can get people to click on it and then stay there as long as possible, that’s going to bring people to your channel.
Chandler: It’s going to give you more views, it’s going to push your stuff in the algorithm. And so after that I went back and my brother actually owns an agency called Pait Digital. He creates websites and does a lot of design stuff for people. And I went to him and I said, hey, like let’s work out a deal. I need something people are going to click on. And one of the things he told me is he said, Chandler, I watch a lot of YouTube and it drives me crazy because people that do really well, their thumbnails are trash. They don’t make sense. Like for a graphic designer, they look terrible. There’s no symmetry. The things that should be there aren’t there and they just don’t make sense. So with yours, I’m going to try and do what’s working on YouTube, but I also want them to look a lot more clean.
Chandler: And I want them for a graphic designer to make sense because I think that’s what’s going to get people to click. And so I will go and before I do my video I’ll pose for whatever he thought would be good. And then I send him it and I say go crazy with it. And he whips it together and I’m ready to rock and roll. And so, so much of my YouTube channel, from my editing to my thumbnails, to everything else, I didn’t have time to do. And so I’ve pawned that off on people that are a lot more talented than I am.
Robert: Brilliant! That is so much. I am so incredibly happy I asked him, by the way, I now feel better about my own YouTube channel because I’m, I’m the guy here who owns the digital agency and you are the guy that does the real estate investing and your stuff looks better than my stuff looks and I’m like, what? Come on! It’s brilliant. It’s obviously, I’m very impressed with John. I let me sit in my sauce for a moment.
Jonathan: No problem. So get back to the property investment, you know, one small series on your YouTube channel. Is about buying fourplexes, buying one with an agent and buying one’s not with an agent and the mistakes you learn in buying fourplexes. Do you want to give some description of why you should buy or maybe not buy a fourplex whether with the help of agent and some of the things you’ve learned through that process?
Chandler: Definitely. I think, you know, it’s a great debate and I know agents want me to say, hey, use an agent. I know there are other people that are very, you know, I’ll never use an agent. For me, if I’m a smart real estate investor, what I pay to an agent, whether it’s 3% 10% 50% if I’m spending money on someone, I don’t care. As long as they are bringing me something that meets my criteria. And what I found is for me it’s been easier to meet my criteria for an investment property if I can find something that’s off market because an extra three to 6% that isn’t going away can be really helpful when negotiating with the seller. Now obviously as a buyer I’m not paying that, but at the end of the day I am because that affects what the seller can sell it to me for.
Chandler: However, what I’ve come to find is that, if I find the right agent that’s willing to listen to me, that understands investing in real estate, understands the kind of return with my cash on cash return, the kind of property I am looking for, and they can stay Chandler, I will find a property that meets your criteria. And then they don’t waste my time. They come to me and bring me a deal that really does meet my criteria. I’m going to buy that all day, every day. And so my last couple of deals, I actually just picked up a 32 unit apartment complex about, t’s been a month and a half, two months ago. And I’ve picked up multiple other properties through an agent. And it’s because that agent, you want my criteria was they knew exactly what I was looking for. They took the time to understand investing in real estate and understand my criteria.
Chandler: And so when they brought it, they knew I was someone that was going to pull the trigger right away. And so for me, I don’t think there’s one that’s better than the other. I think the best one is whichever one is going to bring you a deal that meets your criteria. And I would prefer to do every property that I do through a realtor because it saves me effort. It saves me energy, it saves me work. And if I can find something that’s within the same criteria, I’m going to pick that every single time. And that’s why anytime I interact with realtors that are saying, Chandler, how can I be your guy? I say, look, understand my criteria and then go and find it. And if you find it, I’m going to buy it. And I think that’s how most good real estate investors are.
Jonathan: We’ve got some more questions about fourplexes but we’re going for our break. And when we come back, we’re going to be delving in this world with I think somebody that’s been very impressed in what you’ve managed to achieve. And you’re intelligent and handsome, and young all things which I am not, so there we go. We’ll be back in a few moments’ folks.
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Jonathan: We’re coming back we’ve been just delving in the world of YouTube property investment and just making money. You know these days even capitalism is being given a bad name. God help us. So we were talking about fourplexes and you were talking about why to use agent, why not to use agent. What are some of the things you’ve learned about buying fourplexes? I do like them I think they are great stepping stone from buying a single property to then buy multiple tenant properties. I think they are great stepping stone myself. What are some of the things, mistakes you’ve made, some of the things you’ve learned that you might be could share with our audience?
Chandler: Definitely. No, I mean first off I would, I would agree with you. I think anytime someone comes and says, Chandler, what is the best investment for a new real estate investor? I will say fourplex every single time. And the reason for it is the second you move into five units or more, your financing gets pretty crazy. I mean, you get to the point where your terms are changing every five to 10 years. Your rates are going to be higher. You’re going to be on a 20 year m instead of a 30 year m where if you can stay four units or less, you’ve got this opportunity to capitalize on really the best possible package when it comes to financing. So that’s the first big thing. The other thing is, is if you’re willing to live in a fourplex or in a duplex or four units or less, that gives you even more flexibility to lower your down payments.
Chandler: So instead of waiting forever to where you’re wanting to buy a four or five hundred thousand dollar property and you’re like, holy cow, I’m not going to be able to build up to a hundred thousand dollars down payment. You can get to the place where you’re putting down three and a half percent. That’s huge. I mean that can get you investing years and years before you would have been able to otherwise. And so there are just so many opportunities in those smaller areas. And so I think that’s a big reason. I’ve loved investing in fourplexes. When it comes to mistakes that I’ve made, I think they’re the same mistakes that all investors are tempted to make. And that is falling in love with the property when you’re not in love with the numbers. I think that’s the biggest thing is you can’t fall in love with a property if the numbers don’t work.
Chandler: So you’ve got to know what that is. The other big mistake that I made early on that I see a lot of new investors making is they don’t know what they’re looking for. They say, hey, I want to invest in real estate, but they haven’t pegged, alright, this is the kind of property, this is the age I want it to be. This is the return I want it to have. And then just kind of focused in on that criteria. And because of that they bounce around and then even when a good deal does come, they don’t have the confidence to jump on it because they don’t really know what their criteria is. So figure out exactly what you’re looking on. And I can tell you my biggest mistake hasn’t been buying the wrong property.
Chandler: My biggest has been passing on the right property. And so I think it’s so important to know what you’re looking for. Now others have bought the wrong property and that’s a big mistake that you make as well. But I think those would be the biggest points I would push is know your criteria. Don’t buy outside of it. And if you do that, you’re going to end up with a, with a good purchase.
Jonathan: I got few a question about this it’s based on my experience in Northern Nevada which changed because of the great recession. But before the great recession and the recovery afterwards, a lot of people buy property, Northern Nevada and the numbers just do not add up. They showed me the numbers and the basic mathematics doesn’t make any sense and they get past it because they say they don’t want to invest in the stock market, which I understand. And they say they make the uplift through flipping, it through the sale, which I always feel with just you’re telling yourself a lie basically. When your local market is too hot, would you actually look outside your local market, which has all its own problems. It’s much simpler to manage if you’re looking at your local market, but when you get it does get too hot, would you advise them to look externally rather than fooling themselves with the numbers basically?
Chandler: You know, it’s so interesting because this is one of the questions I get probably more than any other question and I think my advice is kind of twofold. I would say anytime someone comes to me and says, Chandler, my market, I just can’t make the numbers work. And so I’m just going to buy for appreciation. I’m going to buy and make money in the sell and not going to cash-flow. First off, those are the people right now that are scared out of their minds because people aren’t able to pay rent. I’m not nervous. I could cut rents 45% because I’ve bought properly and I would still be cash-flow positive on my properties. And that’s a big safety net where other people aren’t. And so I think never settle, first of all, because you’re going to end up in a mess and you, you kind of hit on that.
Chandler: But the next thing I would say is if you aren’t finding good deals in your market, the first thing you should do is make sure that no one is finding good deals in your market. Because often what I’ll find is people say, oh, my markets terrible. And yet there’s a real estate investor in their town that’s really put good work in. It’s really hit the pavement and they’ve been able to find incredible deals in that same market. Now it’s taken them a little while, but I think you got to make sure that you are capitalizing on the good deals in your market. Because what’s so cool about real estate, there is always going to be that screaming deal. There’s always going to be someone that needs to sell quickly. There’s always going to be people that are in weird times their life where for one reason or another, they want to get rid of a property.
Chandler: They’re also always going to be older owners that have never raised rent. So if you look at their numbers, you’re going to say, oh, this is a bad deal. But if you really understand your market, you can look at a fourplex and say, wow, I could raise rents in every unit three to four hundred dollars because I know this market and a bad deal turns into a great deal really quickly. And so that’s my first thing is make sure that this isn’t a broken mindset rather than a broken market.
Chandler: The next thing I would say is if you are in a market and from what I’ve heard, markets like New York City are extremely hard to find something that’s going to give you a 10 to 15% cash on cash return. I used that as an example because if you’re in a place like that, you don’t have to travel that far to find a city where you can find good numbers and where you can get connected. And so I would be foolish to say that you shouldn’t go outside of your market in a scenario like that because I do think you can find the right management and the right systems to put in place to be able to go outside of where you’re living and capitalize on a good deal as well.
Jonathan: Robert, have you got a question?
Robert: Well, I do because it’s a little bit abstract but a couple of times Chandler now you’re using a lot of, and only somebody like me would catch up onto the vernacular like you’re using, hitting the pavement door knocking. Like you’re saying that inside your language, which made me curious to ask you the following. So I’m looking at your business stuff, which I won’t mention by name unless you give me permission, but I’m looking at it like the environmental stuff and I’m somewhat curious. Do you ever actually go out, knock on doors and then look at like something and go, huh, I wonder who owns this or what the situation is here and you like literally kind of start to scope a deal based upon being on the street looking around?
Chandler: It’s a great question. I think my two businesses are, are very separate now. I’m totally fine with you talking about it. I manage two to three hundred door to door sales reps every year that purely sell pest control. I never intermingled to using them or while I’m out selling pest control to find deals on real estate, even though maybe that would work. What I’m talking about is in my area, I have worked very hard to get connected and that’s a combination of my YouTube channel, and that’s a combination of meeting up with other real estate investors, of going to group meet ups of calling on multiple off market properties and getting to know other owners in the area. I’m speaking with realtors and saying, hey, do you know anyone that owns a lot of real estate or a management company or anyone else? Even if they’re not willing to sell now put me in contact with them.
Chandler: I’m constantly connecting with people who might have what I want and so when it comes to going out and pounding the pavement, knocking doors, I would tell you that’s the bottom of the list of something that’s efficient. Same with mailers. However, if you are doing everything else and you’re still not finding the deals, of course, I would say go to that next. Now I haven’t needed to and I don’t think most people will need to, if they’re working hard to connect in their market, to make phone calls, to create friends, to connect with mentors because a lot of those connections bring, bring people to you. The other thing is you would be blown away by how powerful social media is. I mean for me, I’ve grown a social media presence, but even when I had a very small social media connection group or whatever, you would call that from my Instagram and my Facebook, I was posting about the deals I was doing.
Chandler: I was posting about how much I loved real estate and that was from early on. And even that ends up getting eyes seeing it that you didn’t think would because people talk about it. If you buy one deal, people are talking about that you’re in your twenties you just bought a deal that spreads around and then the next deal people bring to you. I had a realtor that I hadn’t talked to in three years bring me the biggest deal and the best deal I’ve ever had. And it was purely because he knew my criteria was from my YouTube channel. And from talking to people that had connected with me in our town, to where out of everyone he connected with. And this guy has been around forever. I mean, he’d worked in this area for 15 years. He decides to call me now. We had connected multiple times throughout the year, but it had been a good three months, six months, something like that since I talked to him last. And because of that presence, I was the guy, he got the call.
Robert: Brilliant. So then I have a slight follow up question. You’re talking a lot about social media. I just checked out your Instagram this for our listeners. This guy has 116 freaking thousand followers on Instagram, which is just nutty to me. But having said that, like I follow.
Chandler: So, not to call you out I have right around 11,000, reaching 12,000.
Robert: Oh 11,000 my bad. I added a couple of zeros for people.
Chandler: If other people come my direction maybe I’d be there.
Robert: So, but my follow-up question is this, I follow BiggerPockets. I’m not an investor, but I kind of, I live in the real estate world to such a large degree that I keep my hands up very vaguely in mortgage pocket, you know, stuff and investment stuff. It’s not what I do. I focus mostly on residential, on the marketing side, but still it’s good to know that stuff. It’s good to have. So how important was following other blogs? Like you’re talking about mentors and I obviously, I feel like you’ve picked up some people off, maybe Instagram and YouTube. Do you ever read a big blog? And if so, which ones were you reading and did you learn anything or was that completely absent from your growth in this, in this area?
Chandler: No, that’s been huge and it’s been huge for my social media because I’ve connected with people like that, that you share each other’s stuff and so it gets spread around. And so for me, I love it because it keeps my mind in the right space as well. When I open up Instagram or Facebook and I’m just getting pounded with all the people that are doing my same stuff. And so my favorite was BiggerPockets. I mean those guys have been awesome. And Dave Green has told me that I’m going to be on that podcast. I’m hoping the next couple of months waiting for his secretary to meet out. But that’s something I pumped on. Those people are incredible and seeing what they’re doing.
Chandler: So much of the stuff I’ve learned and so much of the stuff I’m doing and applying has been because of them. It’s the same with Meet Kevin. Meet Kevin is incredible for all things real estate for realtors, for real estate investing. And he’s a connection that I got from speaking at an event with him. He’s now I think like 330,000 subscribers on YouTube. And I will tell you a lot of my YouTube growth I owe to him, one because of the advice he gave me, but two, he was willing to put me on his channel and come and look at some of the properties that I own and walk through them and for us to be able to talk ideas and bounce ideas and disagree with each other. And it was awesome.
Chandler: And so that connection, Mack McKeever, Graham Stephan, all of those guys had a huge impact in the direction I’ve gone on. And it’s so important to connect with them. It’s important to share their stuff because it’s another ecosystem that you need to be involved in. It’s going to bring you what you’re looking for.
Robert: Right. So my thousand foot view of investors, and you’ve mentioned it a couple of times, is in that world, it’s not just mentors, people that you’re learning directly from. But it’s the fact that all of you might have different deal criteria and by the bigger your network of people, the more likely it is that somebody might bring you a deal that you like. Am I understanding that or no?
Chandler: I think it’s a combination of everything, but yes, like it definitely brings you deals, getting eyes on your stuff.
Chandler: And a lot of times I’m getting a lot of eyes on my stuff from people that are outside of my markets. However, it’s also helped my perspective. I mean, I’ve found deals that before wouldn’t have met my criteria, but from seeing the way someone else analyzed a deal and then was able to value add to that deal for less, or to do renovations for less, or to increase rents more quickly, or all of those things have helped me to grow. But what’s interesting about the algorithm on Instagram or on YouTube is even if you’re getting eyes from other places in the world that still pushes more eyes from where you’re at. And so getting that growth and that connection outside of Idaho has still propelled me within Idaho. Does that kind of make sense?
Robert: Yeah, it does. And I’m grateful for you sharing that. I think that there’s, most of our audiences is realtors. But you know what? There’s a lot of people that like, I’ve been doing a lot of business outside of real estate, but that business has been given to me by real estate professionals. And I’m sure that actually I know for fact that, that a number of my clients are investors on the side. They do investment to apartment buildings, stuff like that. Anyway, it all cross mingles and, and seeing how you’re doing it I think is really important for them to hear because I don’t think that most people understand that doing like, just like you described, like you didn’t understand what the value of YouTube would be.
Robert: You backed into it. You said, I’m going to do this because I don’t want to answer these questions anymore. Which by the way, that’s how I got my first YouTube channel started 11 years ago is the exact same thing which made me laugh because I was sick of answering the same technical questions about something. And so I put my first video up and there’s like, Oh my God, there’s thousands of viewers. And then it started to beat the actual company whose questions I was answering. I was crazy. Anyway, so.
Jonathan: I need to wrap up the podcast show. Hopefully Chandler is going to stay on for some bonus content. You okay with that?
Chandler: Yeah, of course.
Jonathan: We can probably be discussing how not to become a slum landlord, how to deal with contractors, and not lose all your hair by dealing with them. I think there’d be a couple of good areas to discuss. So we’re wrapping up the podcast part, the show shows. So Chandler, what’s the best ways for people to contact you and also know more about yourself?
Chandler: Definitely anything Chandler David Smith. So I’ve got a website that’s chandlerdavidsmith.com, a Facebook that’s Chandler David Smith, Instagram Chandler David Smith, and YouTube Chandler David Smith. I love to have people come and check out the YouTube channel. I work really hard to give you all of the information you need to be a successful real estate investor right on my YouTube channel. So I don’t sell any courses. I don’t do any of that stuff. I just put the best content on the channel and we’d love to see you there.
Jonathan: Alright, and Robert, what’s the best way for people to learn more about you and what you’re up to?
Robert: I’ve been spending a ton of time on my website and I’d love for people to weigh in. There’s pretty much nothing but updated new content there for 2020 so please go to inboundrem.com. I’m even clearing out old comments, so if you go, you’re going to have a fresh comment area on my site. Please let me know what you think.
Jonathan: And I’ve got exciting news folks. In the next few weeks I’ll be opening up the Mail-Right University and it will be a course that will show you all the marketing things that we’ve been discussing over the past year. I will be opening it up to the Mail-Right podcast listeners for free and it’s going to be really mind blowing I’m finishing off all the modules right now. And later on I will be charging for it. But for the listeners, you’ll be given a free coupon code and you’ll be able to join and learn more about everything we’ve been discussing. Would like to say stay on, go to the Mail-Right website to view the bonus content, and we’ll be back next week with another great guest. Speak to you, see you soon folks, bye.