110 Mail Right Show With Andrew Fogliato Of Just Sell Homes

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We have a great interview here with Andrew Fogliato of Just Sell Homes. We discuss all things Facebook and we really cover a load of stuff connected to using paid Facebook adverts linked to driving quality leads to your email inbox in 2017.

Here’s more about Andrew and Just Sell Homes

Andrew, founded Just Sell Homes in July of 2015. Why? Because he was asked to!

When I was selling real estate I had a mentor. He taught me a lot about the business. I also taught myself a lot of the digital side of the business which he was not familiar with. The more I learned about it the more people came to me with questions. Which eventually led to me accepting an offer to train agents across North America with one of the big brands.

Then my former mentor came back to me. Asked if I could help him evaluate some website providers.

So I said “Of course”. When showing him the options he eventually just said “Can I just hire you to do this for me?”

Then the idea behind Just Sell Homes was born and a few months later it launched!

As much as I enjoyed being a real estate agent, I love the digital marketing side of the real estate business even more. It’s where my true passion is.

When I’m not running Just Sell Homes I’m spending time with my kick-ass wife, our daughter Hannah, our two dogs, and playing basketball as much as possible.

I also spend a lot of time trying to make myself an even better digital marketer. That’s why I take courses, like the Hubspot Certified Inbound Marketer course. I don’t think one person can ever know everything but that doesn’t mean I can’t try to!

Here’s A Full Transcription Of Our Interview with Andrew

Jonathan: Hi there folks. Welcome back to the Mail Right Show. It’s episode 110. We’ve got Andrew back. He’s a friend of the show. I’m not going to try and pronounce his second name. We’re going to let him do that because I totally and utterly have butchered it twice in a row. But he’s still a friend. He’s my Facebook Advisor of choice. He advises Mail Right about Facebook. So Andrew, introduce yourself.

Andrew: So I’m Andrew Fogliato. Just pretend there’s no G in there and you’ll get it right.

Jonathan: If I knew I could do that Andrew.

Andrew: One day you’ll get it right.

Jonathan: Yeah. One day.

Andrew: So I was former Agent. I was an Agent for a couple years just North a little town called, just North of Toronto called Aurora. And then I ended up training for one of the big brands and when I was doing that everyone kept asking just to hire me to do it for them. So I ended up launching a Digital Marketing Agency called Just Sell Homes where we do Digital Marketing for Agents.

Jonathan: Like I said, Andrew has been advising me for almost 2 years now. I can’t believe that the times gone. But he’s been a great advisor and he’s just a great guy in general folks. So if you’re looking for that custom Facebook solution, I couldn’t praise Andrew more. So Andrew, what would you like to cover in this episode? I know we had a quick pre-talk earlier on last week. And there are some movements in Facebook. What would you like to initially cover Andrew?

Andrew: A big one is that, because I used to talk about that I didn’t use Facebook Lead Ads to much and they’ve gotten a lot better. So when they first launched, we ran a lot of tests with them. And we were finding that there’s a lot of extra work. You need a third party software and the results weren’t any better. But now, especially with listings, we’re getting amazing results with Facebook Lead Ads. We’re running a Lead Ad and we’ll get anywhere from 75 cents a lead to the higher end, maybe $5 a lead. So you can get quite a few leads for a pretty cheap budget. So it’s been working really well on listings.

Jonathan: Obviously, we’ve got a very, it’s Real Estate Agents, small brokerages, people interested in the Real Estate industry. So can you go into some of the fundamentals of what these Adverts are? Why are they different to the traditional Facebook advertisement?

Andrew: So what makes a Lead Ad different is that it actually eliminates the need for a landing page, which works really well, because a lot of people, their websites aren’t great as a landing page. They don’t convert well. This eliminates that by what it does. When you click on an Ad of Facebook, instead of going straight to the site, it just pops up a form on Facebook pre-filled in with the contact information that you gave Facebook. And so you don’t have to even type in your name, email or phone number. It’s already there. You just hit submit and then you go straight through to the page that you wanted to go to anyway. So it’s kind of like a forced registration on a site, but it’s just done at the Facebook level and it’s pre-filled in so it speeds it up and it works really well.

Jonathan: And what do you think, because you said that it wasn’t working that well initially and now it’s working a lot better. What did Facebook do to improve that situation?

Andrew: They’ve done a few, I think, a slight change is just like how it looks to the consumer. People are a little more comfortable doing it now because I think it’s just part of the time, maybe they weren’t comfortable doing it either. Also now you can add what’s called a context card which would almost be like a mini landing page before it fills in their information. So when they click on it, you can give them a little bit more information before they fill it in. So it’s almost like a half landing page within Facebook too. I think a part of it is just consumer behaviors change and then maybe they’ve figured, they’ve gotten better at who to serve the Ad to and who’s likely to opt-in on it.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Andrew: So it’s hard to know exactly what they did behind the scenes. But I mean our initial tests, they didn’t perform any better than anything else we were and they were a lot of extra work. So it wasn’t worth it. But now it’s been great.

Jonathan: And would you say, I’m only surmising this and you’re the expert. Is it also a lot more mobile friendly this set up basically?

Andrew: It’s only a lot more mobile friendly if your landing page sucked before. If you have a good landing page, it’s going to be very mobile friendly anyways. So it’s a much more foolproof way to become mobile friendly. I’ll say that way.

Jonathan: Yeah. The only reason I’m saying that Andrew is on a device or small screen it’s pre-populating the fields for you. There’s less typing you’re going to have to do. I just felt that reducing the typing might be something that if somebody’s using a mobile device, it makes it easier for them to utilize it basically.

Andrew: Depends on the browser they’re using on their device too. I have a Google Chrome and it pre-fills in a lot of the information. If I type in capital A, it pre-fills in my name and I just click on my name and it goes it. So it’s not necessarily a huge time savings. But there’s definitely a little bit which is always good.

Jonathan: So I noticed also, we discussed this. A well-known marketing company in the Real Estate industry Curator, they were utilizing it. I mentioned it to you, one of the Adverts that was shown in my Facebook feed. But when you clicked it, it took you to a landing page. When you click the button, then it went back to Facebook. You can utilize it like that as well, can’t you?

Andrew: Yeah. It’s not a Lead Ad. It’s just that it requires a little bit more custom programming. I have never looked into specifically the tech that Curator’s using to do that. I assume they just have a Programmer on staff who set it up that way with the Facebook API.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Andrew: But it would require a bit extra set up than a Lead Ad. And a Lead Ad, it’s more of a direct flow. So you click on the Ad. The form pops up. Then you go the page where as I think the way they have it set is you go to their page, click on it, it brings you back to Facebook to opt-in.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Andrew: And then you go back to the page. There’s a little bit more back and forth. So, yeah. That’s how I see it. I don’t know if they get better results than with a Lead Ad. I’m sure that, knowing them, they’ve tested that.

Jonathan: I would have thought so.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jonathan: But it’s interesting in a way, isn’t it? Because, but like you say, I’d be amazed if they haven’t tested it quite extensively.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jonathan: So you’ve got that. Are there any other new things that are coming up in the Facebook world Andrew?

Andrew: Chatbots are getting big. So there’s some cool things you could do there. Actually, I was just talking to a Marketer and I’m going to be testing it soon too. There’s a woman, actually in Toronto as well, named Amanda Robinson. And she was doing an Ad for a client and we’re going to test it with a few of ours where it has a video and then the videos says, “If you want to get the full listing sheet of this property, just type the address in the comment section”. And then when you type the address in the comment section, it automatically opens up a chat and sends them a message with information about the property. So I saw her do that on one and it had over 200 comments, 60,000 views, 100 shares. It ended up doing really well. But it’s because it’s forcing people to comment on it. And when they comment on it, it shows up in other people’s feed as well. Looking at it in an initial test, it has potential. From that specific use case, we’re going to definitely test it out a lot more and see how it compares to Lead Ads. Because we’re getting leads so cheaply with Lead Ads, I’m not sure that it’ll out perform. But to us, it’s a least worth testing because you never know. And that’s one thing that’s great when we’re working with as many clients as we are is that we can take something like the chatbot and we can figure out in a week if it’s working. Whereas maybe another Agent at a comparable scale, it might take them 2, 3, 4 or 5 months. So we can figure out pretty quick once we launch it for a few different clients.

Jonathan: Yes. They do seem to be the biggest two areas, the chatbots, and the lead pages. But back to the lead capture side of it, is that you do need a, well it’s recommended that you have a third party bit of software because, am I correct? If somebody does sign up, the only way you can export that data is through a CV file. If you’ve got a Customer Management System, you need third party system that can communicate with that. Is that correct?

Andrew: Yeah. So what happens right now, if I opted-in on a Lead Ad and you didn’t have any third party, you have manually as the page owner go into the backend of your page into the settings, download it all. And it doesn’t even notify you when you get a new lead. So you just have to go and check from time to time to see if people have opted-in which is a pain. It’s a lot of time spent to do that and you’re going to kill your speed for response. So what you can do, I use a tool called LeadsBridge and it works really well. Integrates with a and a lot of real estates or it just emails you the lead. But you just set it up through there. It only takes an extra 5, 6 minutes per campaign to set up. And it actually builds a form for you in there as well, like the Lead Ad form. And it connects it and emails it to you right away. So it becomes that instantaneous lead delivery.

Jonathan: Yeah. I want to say to folks is there’s a few of these programs. Kim came on the show and she’s the CO of Sync2CRM. And they do a similar program folks. But the one that Andrew mentioned is also one of the leaders in this and a great company. But also look at Sync2CRM. I thought I’d just give Kim a plug. But she seems a nice lady and has been quite generous to the show with her time. So I’m a little bit concerned. It’s always a big of a concern Andrew when I get a real expert like you on the show, that we’re not, and there’s a little bit of noise in the background folks. It’s just that Andrew recently became a father and she’s got a strong set of lungs.

Andrew: Yeah. She’s learning her lungs right now.

Jonathan: I’m always a little bit concerned that we’ve got to give value to the listeners. But also, we might be very rapidly losing them. How do you deal with that when you’re talking to a new possible client Andrew?

Andrew: I’m sorry. With the baby, I think I missed the first part of the question.

Jonathan: No. That’s no problem. How do you deal with the problem that, obviously, you know Facebook backwards. But you’re talking to a new client and you’ve got to explain how hiring you and utilizing Facebook is going to really help the client. How do you explain that in a way that the client can really understand?

Andrew: One of our easiest ways is just comparing it to print. For instance, we had one client. They’re spending 10,000 a month on print. They were getting results from it. If you spend that much consistently, you’re going to get results. And I was basically telling them, “Give me 10 percent of that budget for a month and I’ll get you more leads than print has all year”. So they tested it and sure enough, we did. So I was just proving it to them that it works. And we’ll do that often. Sometimes we’ll do a trial run with clients and we’ll just show them the results we can get. Or we’ll show them results from another client. We’ll give them a little case study. But a lot of the time people realize that it’s coming. Most Agents now seem to know that they need a digital strategy in their business if they’re going to be around. You get a lot of older Agents. They have 5 years left in the business. They’re all referral now. They’re not going to put a ton of work into Facebook. Things like that. But over the long run, if you want to be around for a while, you’re going to have to start getting a digital strategy together. Most of them seem to realize that.

Jonathan: Yeah. I totally agree with you. Well, that’s what Mail Right is about and it’s taken me a lot longer to, I feel I’m getting somewhere now. But it’s just taking a lot longer. By I time I get there, the Real Estate industry will be finished. I’m only kidding. It’s always a fascinating conversation. What do you call a lead though? What somebody else thinks is a lead cannot be what you think is a lead? How do you classify a lead Andrew?

Andrew: Usually, it’s just name, email, and phone number. So if someone who’s either interested in a property or in downloading something, but something real estate related and they’re willing to give you their name, email and phone number for it.

Jonathan: So you’re not saying to them that this person is definitely going to want to sell their house or buy a house tomorrow?

Andrew: No. And generally with Facebook Ads, you’re not getting as often the people who are like, “Let’s go tomorrow”. And that’s the big difference with Google Ads. So Google Ads, people have intent. They go on, they search, “homes for sale in Detroit”. And they will look specifically for homes that are selling in Detroit. Facebook, they’re not looking for that. You’re interrupting what they’re doing. You generally get people a little bit earlier in the conversation. But the advantage of that is you’re also not then in competition with other Agents. If you go to Google, they might open up the top four results and contact all four of them, now you’re competing more. Facebook, you’re the first one in and if you do your job right, you’ll probably be the only one.

Jonathan: That’s great. I think we’re going to go for our break folks. We’ll be coming back. We’ll be talking to Andrew some more about all things Facebook. I think you’re going to get great value from this conversation folks. Be back in a minute.

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Jonathan: We’re coming back. We’re talking to Andrew, a friend of the show. I consider him a personal friend. Hopefully, he considers me as a friend.

Andrew: Of course. It’s been a couple years.

Jonathan: Yeah. You got to know me.

Andrew: Yeah.

Jonathan: I try and keep my word, don’t I Andrew?

Andrew: Yeah.

Jonathan: And I respect your time as well, don’t I?

Andrew: Definitely.

Jonathan: I’m not one of these, I try not to on too much, don’t I Andrew? I try and keep to the point, don’t I?

Andrew: Yeah. We normally keep it pretty on point so it’s good.

Jonathan: Yeah. That’s the one thing that you can’t, I’m looking for the right word. And I think you, the Real Estate Agent are in the same boat is the one thing that you can’t boost, that’s your actual time. There’s only so many hours in the day, isn’t it? So what do you see a lot of Agents, a lot of Agents try Facebook, spend a bit of money, get absolutely no results and say it’s the curse of the devil and they’re never going to try it again. What do you see some of the fundamental mistakes that a lot of Agents are making Andrew?

Andrew: Generally two main mistakes and often they’re combined. The first mistake is they just send it to the home page of their website. So they’ll run an Ad. It just goes to the home page of their site. But then there’s no incentive to opt-in. Whatever the offer they’re clicking on about, it’s not there on the home page. So normally, you have run an Ad and each specific Ad should have its own page related to that Ad that it goes to directly. So that’s normally mistake one that a lot of people make. And then the other is, they’ll just a post on their page and then click boost and just say, “Okay. Boost this to my town”. With no more real thought than that. And the problem there is it doesn’t really become relevant at that point. And then boosting, you lose a lot of the potential. So if my goal is to somebody to a website, for example, if I had boost post, Facebook doesn’t optimize it for people going to your website. They optimize it for engagement. So people liking, commenting and sharing it. So by doing that, you’ve lost Facebook’s ability to bring them to your page. Whereas if you go through the Ads Manager, Facebook will optimize it for people who actually want to click and go to your website. So then they’re more likely to go to your website then.

Jonathan: Yeah. But you can understand it. Because there’s a lot of moving parts here. I’ve been involved in WordPress and Web Development Design. But it took me, hopefully, you can see I’ve progressed quite a lot from a very low ebb utilizing Facebook over the past 18 months, haven’t I Andrew? But there’s a lot of things going on here. You really do need decent landing pages. And there are programs like Lead Pages and similar products that you can use to make a decent landing page. And also, there are solutions in the WordPress world that can help you do that. But then, the actual copy of Advert, I think one of the things, I’d be interested to see if you agree, is one of the things I’ve learned through this process and I think a lot of people have to learn the hard way and hopefully listening to this show, it gives them some insight, is they think that there’s going to be one big thing. If they get it right, it will make all their Adverts successful. Where the truth is, some Adverts just don’t work and then other ones can be made into real performers by just small changes. And I think that’s something a lot of people don’t understand. Would you agree with that?

Andrew: Yeah. Sometimes the smallest changes. And it’s just about knowing what the different metrics mean. If look at an Ad and you can see that it’s performing relatively well, but it’s quite getting the results, little tweaks can change it. If it’s a 0 or like a 1 relevance score or high cost per click, maybe you do want to change the whole thing.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Andrew: But it’s just about knowing what the different metrics on Facebook or whatever program you’re using mean and leveraging that.

Jonathan: Yeah. That’s great. So the other area I want to discuss with you is the whole area of retargeting and using Facebook. Basically, it’s called a custom audience folks. You import a list into Facebook and then you can also show that to what Facebook calls look a like audience. Have you been trying out retargeting to an extent? And what’s your thought about it Andrew?

Andrew: Oh, sorry.

Jonathan: No. You’re alive and good.

Andrew: Yeah. Okay. I use retargeting quite a bit for clients who have the traffic and budget. Because usually, you’ll also get is a lot of people do retargeting, but they don’t quite have enough traffic to really make it worth it. But we use retargeting a few different ways. The most common one is anyone who has viewed our content, we then will go over the next stuff. So in the sense of, you’ve looked at our website, you’ve engaged with our Facebook page. So that means you’ve given a little bit interest into real estate. Now we’re going to retarget you with an offer to download a guide or something like that, that’s a little bit more specific, like “How to Prepare Your Home for Sale” as the example. If you’re going to interact with our content a little bit and then go to the next step of downloading the guide, you’re a little bit more serious. We find when we can get a big enough retargeting audience and then give them an offer like that we can bring Ad costs down quite a bit. But first, you have to actually get that going. You have to build up the audience. And I would say spend a month or 2 building that and then go from there.

Jonathan: Yeah. And also what occurred to me folks is I never mentioned about my co-host Thomas and why he’s not here. It totally escaped me. He’s going to be angry with me again folks. But no, he’s fine. He’s traveling again folks. In August he decided to go to the Lovefest. And now he’s gone to some other conference. So he left me on my own with Andrew. Andrew’s always been quite friendly to me so I thought we could handle this. I apologize my audience for not telling you that beforehand. I think we jumped the gun again. Can you give a broad, just a few seconds, about what retargeting is and why in general it’s a good idea Andrew?

Andrew: So basically what retargeting is, is targeting someone with an Ad who’s either already been to your website or engaged with your content. So they’ve essentially been in your eco system to a degree and now you’re just bringing them to the next level with something more tailored to them. The easiest example is, for people outside of real estate or in real estate who haven’t used it before, would be like if you’re gone shopping on Amazon, you’ve left Amazon gone back to Facebook and seen an Ad for that product you were just looking at, that’s not a coincidence. That’s a retargeting Ad. And you can do the same thing on Facebook by doing something like if someone looks at a listing, they go back to Facebook and they could see an Ad for that exact listing.

Jonathan: Yeah. Just to kind of emphasize this folks. It’s a well-known fact that almost 80 percent of people that visit your website will never come back again. So having some retargeting campaign that gets some of that traffic to go back again, can be enormously beneficial. But these are only very generalistic facts. Obviously different websites, different scenarios, these figures might not apply. But that’s the general percentages that are kind of knocked around the online marketing world and why retargeted. So what I’m talking about is importing a list into the system and then having a retargeting campaign. And hopefully, depending on the strength, that list, how well known they know the Agent, the people on that list, is a slightly different way than what you’ve been using it in a way, isn’t Andrew?

Andrew: Yeah, to a degree. But that’s part of just like the experience of doing it often as we know how it works.

Jonathan: One the things that has annoyed me though, they no longer quit, am I correct in saying they no longer quit the business page, do they? And also, they have introduced some things that you can’t really precisely remove from the page. They’ve done that recently. Am I correct about that Andrew?

Andrew: What things have they not allowed you to remove from the page?

Jonathan: Oh God. I think one you could remove which they put there is the library for photos, wasn’t there? And I think if you put a video up, the latest video that doesn’t seem to be removable. I’m not sure. Why am I not correct? You’re the expert Andrew.

Andrew: I’ll be honest. We don’t do a lot of organic stuff on Facebook pages anymore because the value in an organic post just isn’t the same.

Jonathan: Yeah.
Andrew: From organic, we actually prefer to go with groups. So we do a lot of work in Facebook groups because there’s some great stuff there. For posting on a Facebook page is just so that we can advertise it.

Jonathan: I think you just mentioned a really good topic, groups. Can you go into what groups are Andrew? You made a very strong statement there. Why do you think they’re so effective?

Andrew: Now partly with our business we use them to obviously network with real estate Agents. But it’s just joining these groups on Facebook and each of them have a specific topic. There’s a million of them in real estate and it’s just about finding the right one that kind of fits or right ones. There’s multiple ones. At local levels, you’ll see them all the time too. So we’ll get our clients to join them. Every community seems to have local buy and sell groups. There’s local Mom groups. There’s just general community groups. If there’s an important issue, for instance, in our town there was a golf course that was bought by a developer and they were going to turn it into more homes. And the people tried to create a community group to protest that. But that’s a great group for Agents to join and get involved in. So there’s a lot of different, just local groups you can join and just get into conversations. And what makes them often better than a page, is when someone joins it, one, you get a lot more back and forth that’s a little bit more natural. And people actually get notified when there’s a post in a group. So instead of just hoping it shows up in a newsfeed, they’re getting a notification of their Facebook that you posted.

Jonathan: It’s so powerful, isn’t it? And just a word of warning. You’ve got to treat this as a conversation folks. Obviously, yes, you’re a real estate Agent. And yes, you need to get leads. But just don’t go in there, it’s a bit like going to a local business meeting. Just don’t go there and push a card in front of somebody. You’ve got to get to know those people. And you’ve got to get to know the conversations. And they will know that you’re a real estate Agent. And most of them will understand. But if you can also provide value, help people with their question and be helpful and then gradually maybe introduce some properties that you’ve got for sale or promote yourself a little bit. But you’ve got to provide some value, haven’t you? Would you agree with that Andrew?

Andrew: Yeah. Personally, I would never even post a listing unless there’s a specific time zone was asking for it. I would just go in and provide as much value as I can. I’d definitely make comments about me as a real estate Agent, for example. In a lot of these groups, people ask for dinner recommendations and things like that or school recommendations or reviews on a new school. What you do is then you frame it as, “Hey. I just had a client who bought a home here. They’re looking to know about the specific teacher that their kid’s ending up with next year. Does anyone have feedback on what the teacher’s like?”. And you could put that in the group. One, you get value for your client by getting them the feedback that they want. And then two, everyone sees that you’re a real estate Agent.

Jonathan: Yeah. What about video Andrew? Obviously, there was a big when Facebook really got into video in a big way. And also live streaming. That might be, video in general and specifically, live streaming. How do you see that as being an effective tool for real estate Agents?

Andrew: Live streaming can work really well. It partially depends on your audience though. Most people are going to do live streaming from their personal, not their business page, most of the time. But your personal has to have the right audience. I mean it’s just all, if friends from high school aren’t going to buy then there’s not as much value, especially if they’re not local anymore. Now if you have a lot of local people on it or a lot of other Agencies might send referrals, there’s a lot of value there. But it really just depends on who your audience is and then how much value or entertainment you’re providing with your video.

Jonathan: I know a couple Agents that use the Mail Right system Andrew. What they’ve done is they’ve utilized their mobile phone. There’s some really good recording software that you can put on the iPhone and Android. And with some reasonable inexpensive mics, what they’ve done is gone and interviewed like people in Education or people in the local community. They interviewed those of the live feed and then they boosted those and they’ve got a good audience because it’s adding information on value to their target audience. I’ve known a few that have done that. And that’s something that you should look at folks is doing a live feed where like maybe you’re talking to the Superintendent of a school in an area about what the school offers, what special events are coming up. It could be just 20 minutes. And then you can tag that up with the school name and then you could boost the video and you’ll probably get a good audience. What do you think about that Andrew?

Andrew: I actually recommend doing that for a lot of my clients to tell them to do things like that. Sometimes when we do those, we don’t do them live. That’s just because it makes some people more comfortable, like the business owners a little bit more comfortable not to be live, to know that you can edit out any mistakes and things like that. Especially because you’re trying to promote your business at the same time, you don’t want to make anyone look bad. So it does help if you don’t always do those live. But I tell people, you gauge it based on who you’re talking to. Some people are very happy to jump live. They don’t care if they make mistakes. Other people are so nervous, it’s better to have three or four takes in there.

Jonathan: I think that’s a great point Andrew. Thank you for that. Obviously, I do utilize live media myself to promote my two businesses. So hopefully I become reasonably competent. And you’re pretty smooth also dealing with it. But we can’t forget that other people find it quite intimidating, don’t they?

Andrew: Yeah. A lot of people get really nervous. They freeze up. So it’s better just to give them the option. And you can always do both. You can start live and if you find it’s not working, then just switch over to recorded. It’s not a big deal.

Jonathan: Now, we’re going to wrap the show up Andrew. Is there any areas, we’ve covered a lot of territory in about half hour, haven’t we? We’ve darted around. Is there anything that you think we haven’t covered that we should?

Andrew: A little trick that I’ve actually recently been doing a lot with my Facebook Ads which a lot of people should consider doing because it’s relatively easy is if you’re using an image in your Ad, put it up into a tool like Canva, which is basically like simple graphic design and up the contrast on it 20 to 30 percent. It’ll help stand out. If you could look at the picture of a house with the contrast put up 20 to 30 percent, the house looks the same, it’s just looks a little bit sharper, a little bit clearer, it’s a nicer photo. Just helps it stands out in the newsfeed more and you find that it does help performance of your Facebook Ads. I mean it’s not going to take a bad Ad to all of a sudden be a great Ad. But a good Ad, it might make a great Ad.

Jonathan: And no. That’s a good. Did they get rid of the or was it the 20 or 25 percent text rule?

Andrew: So 20 percent text rule’s technically gone. It’s still worth following because how they charge you for your Ads and the reach you’re getting is essentially still dependent on the text. So I would still use it as a guideline. For me, I try to go with zero text or as little as possible. But we will put text in the odd Ad.

Jonathan: Yeah. That’s a good point. What they’ve done folks is that they got rid of this arbitrary rule. But if you go berserk and put all text over it, it’s more really because basically, they don’t ban it, but they hardly show it to anybody. So in some ways, it’s worse because in the old system they just decline to show to Advert and then you would have to reduce it. But now, it will go through, but it just won’t be shown to a lot of people. So I don’t know if the new system’s any better or worse than the old system in a way. So that’s debatable. Thanks . . .

Andrew: There are times now where, so sometimes now it makes sense to put a lot of text on. So I’ve run the odd Ad where I’ve essentially paid the penalty for having a lot of text. But they converted at a higher rate because of what I put in the text. As an example, I ran a beginner webinar for real estate Agents on how to do Facebook Ads. So the entire image was, “Facebook Ads for”, or “Real Estate Facebook Ads for Beginners The Webinar”. And that was the entire image. So I paid a heavy penalty by Facebook to play that. But it converted at such a high rate because it was so in your face about what it was and what they exactly wanted that it worked. But you just have to play around a bit and see if there are situations where it’s going to make sense for you.

Jonathan: Yeah. That’s well put. Thanks Andrew. So Andrew, how can people get a hold of you and learn more, all about what you’re doing with Facebook Andrew?

Andrew: Quickest way is to go to justsellhomes.com. All my contact info’s on there. There’s also a link to join our Facebook group where we talk about Digital Marketing for real estate. So we just have those conversations all the time. You can ask me questions in the group. We’ll answer them. We’ll go live and critique people’s Ads all the time. So feel free to join that group or just email me andrew@justsellhomes.com.

Jonathan: And there’ll be a full set of show notes with links. Actually, because of the quality of conversation, I will probably get the whole conversation transcribed. And then put all the links in for you folks. And you’ll find that on the Mail Right site. And you go the top navigation and it’ll be under Podcast. Also, we have a YouTube channel where you can watch all the latest videos. Getting a lot more people coming to the YouTube channel and watching those. Those figures are going up nicely. And you’ll be able to hear this on iTunes folks. We’re getting a bigger audience every month for that as well. Thank you so much Andrew for coming on the show. It’s been a pleasure talking to you so more. And thank you for your support and guidance over the past couple of years. It’s been extremely welcomed and appreciated Andrew. I would say to you the listeners. If you want to support the show, the best way is to give us a review on iTunes. You do that. You just go to where the show, you do a search for the Mail Right show and then you can leave a review, give us 5 stars and a quick review of how you found the show, interesting or not and would really really help folks. We’ll be back next week. Thomas will back scolding my inability to introduce him at the beginning of this show probably. But he will be rested probably. And we’ve got some great guests in September. So we’ll see you next week. Bye