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#431 – The Mail-Right Show: AUTHENTIC Information about Hot Real Estate Leads & Online Lead Generation

Wednesday, May 15th, 2024

#431 - The Mail-Right Show: AUTHENTIC Information about Hot Real Estate Leads & Online Lead Generation

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#1 Understanding how the successful lead funnel works in 2024

-a – Cold Lead – you are going to need ten or more valuable touches and 12 to 18 months out from buying or selling

-b- Warming

-c- Hot Lead

#2 – Storytelling works connected to turning cold into warming leads

Hero’s journey | The seller or buyer journey

Joseph Campbell

Video and Newsletter

-a- Deal of the Week

-b- New in the real estate market

-c- Local things to do

-d- retargeting

#3 – Hot leads – you need to do personalized outreach

-a – text messages

– b – Bomb, Bomb video

– c– Phone call

Episode Full Show Notes

[00:00:04.920] -Robert Newman

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mail-Right Show. Today, we’re going to talk about Lead Journey. The actual title of the show is Authentic Information About Hot Real Estate Leads and Lead Generation in 2024. In other words, what you need to know about generating an actual warm lead. Forgive me for all the motion here. My cat has decided to do some acrobatics in front of me, and I’m having to calm him down. Anyway, so with no further to do before we get deep into the subject, and we stop talking about my cat.

[00:00:44.960] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, at least you’re not going to shoot your cat.

[00:00:49.100] -Robert Newman

I love my animals.

[00:00:51.900] -Jonathan Denwood

It’s dogs and goats that you don’t like.

[00:00:55.810] -Robert Newman

No, I like animals in general. As long as they don’t interfere with the things I’m trying to do, which, of course, that’s what they want to do most at all times. But having said that, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself to all the people who might be listening to the show today?

[00:01:13.780] -Jonathan Denwood

That’s fantastic, Rob. I’m the joint founder of Mel-right. Com. We build beautiful websites on WordPress, plus we provide CRM landing pages, email, text outreach, and a lot more, all in one A great value package. Back over to you, Robert.

[00:01:33.940] -Robert Newman

Awesome stuff. Ladies and gentlemen, I’m the founder of InboundREM. It’s a content marketing, story-telling-based platform. I’ve got what I’m well known for is being a real estate SEO Authority. Without any further ado, and if you’d like to figure out anything about me, for those of you who are watching the show, you already know how because I wear my swag on the show every day.

[00:01:57.140] -Jonathan Denwood

I’m very impressed, Rob.

[00:02:00.060] -Robert Newman

So without any further to do, we’re going to jump into this subject, which is an interesting and good one. And yet, once again, a second time in less than 60 days John has come up with a unique topic, one that we’ve never discussed before. So buckle up. Number one, understanding how a lead funnel would work in 2024. So one of the things I want to ask you is if you feel like things are changing or you’ve been putting in the date a lot, and I agree with you if that’s the direction that you were headed. So do you feel like this is information that might be different than information that you would have handed out to people in 2022? Let’s start there.

[00:02:43.200] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, I think to get leads that pan out, a lot of agents don’t understand this concept. It’s what I call the buyer-seller journey. This isn’t original. I’ve copied this off from other people. Nothing I supply listeners and viewers is original. I can assure you that, but I do think about it. I think a lot of agents, that’s why they get very frustrated. A lot of people can get frustrated about expectations and about what they thought they were engaging in and what they’re getting from a system like Melright, from engaging you, Robert, from anybody that is in the mechanics of helping real estate agents and brokerages around their digital marketing. But those agents that do understand this concept of the buyer-seller journey and about the different stages and different outreach that you should be attempting at this journey that you are with the potential lead that becomes hot is crucial in 2024, in my opinion, Robert.

[00:04:21.580] -Robert Newman

Okay. So essentially what John has researched and proposed, and I agree with, is that today, in today’s world, the quality of a lead is going to be multi-stage. In other words, it’s no longer just as simple as getting a name and a telephone number, and it hasn’t been that simple in quite a few years in my experience. And you’ve got a lot of different ways of building value into the lead. If you have a very successful way of convincing people to leave you their information, but you haven’t told them that much, maybe you hooked them into a free e-book or something else where the value has not yet been established, then you might use a multi-step process to build value into the lead. Once they’re already technically a lead. We’ve separated these into the categories of cold lead, warming, and hot lead. That’s how you’re describing them. You’re saying that you’re going to need 10 or more valuable touches in 12 to 18 months out from buying or selling. I, once again, agree with you. Catching somebody high upstream in terms of the intent funnel might be like an example of the best home buyer’s guide, a manual to buying a home in 2024.

[00:05:29.250] -Robert Newman

There’s an example. You’re catching somebody way upstream, housewife, somebody like that. Not that that exists all that much anymore, but somebody who is doing the shopping and is interested to learn how they would navigate the best rates and so on. In that process, you’d move on to number two on this list, which is storytelling, working, and connected to turning cold into warming leads. John, why don’t you go ahead and explain what you learned while you were researching for the subject? Joseph Candeble, video newsletters, and so on.

[00:06:01.510] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, I’ve always been influenced by union psychology myself. People were going to wonder, what the hell is he going on about? But I have. Union psychology has influenced me, and I think it influenced a great writer called Joseph Campbell, and he wrote this I actually, I haven’t read it. I’ve listened to it on audiobook. It is a bit long-winded. I wouldn’t say he’s, in my opinion, the greatest writer, but he had this concept which is union-based, in my opinion, based on archetypes that every story, every film, mini-series, novel, basically has about five different fundamental storylines to it. A lot of Western culture and Western written material, and then in the 20th century, film and television is based on the hero’s journey, where the hero goes through different stages of this journey. I think you can apply it to the buy or seller journey. What a lot of agents I don’t understand with digital leads is their perception is that all the leads that digital… And it does depend on where the lead comes from, digitally. If it’s coming from Google search, the intent is probably going to be higher than if it came from Facebook or they came from some other digital way of getting them into your CRM, your list.


[00:08:05.260] -Jonathan Denwood

But even then, a lot of the people that you initially contact, they’re going to be on a journey. They are not going to be in the stage to engage with you and lead directly to a check. But this inability of a lot of agents, in some ways understandable if you’re desperate and you need a commission check ASP, you’re not going to understand it because you’re not in the position to be able to understand this. But the agents that are not under such pressure, that have got a bit of leeway, They might not be able to verbalize this so clearly, but I think instinctively they do understand that they’re on a journey and their leads are at different stages of this journey.


[00:09:21.610] -Robert Newman

Copy you. All right, let’s see if I can interpret that. You went We’re going to go down a lot of rabbit holes, and I think that if we’re going to go down some of these rabbit holes, we should probably talk about storytelling in a separate podcast. But I’m going to say that the way that I understood what you’re saying- Next you got to put the consumer in the position of the hero on the journey. In order for this to make sense, though, unfortunately, John, I think that everybody has to understand the way that these… Jung created the idea that human beings associate with one another in archetypes. After studying many different cultures and things like that, he actually looked and said, there are similar archetypes no matter who you are, where you are, what part of the world you live in. Indeed, he has proven to be right. As knowledge has increased despite the proliferation of the internet, Jung apparently got it right. It doesn’t really matter what culture you’re talking about. Asian cultures, American cultures, Irish, the Nordic cultures, everybody has archetypes that they refer to, which means that storytelling is universal, which is why religions have spread so prolifically.


[00:10:41.490] -Robert Newman

They’re generally based on the hero’s archetype. Some additional work was done by some people, including Joseph Campbell, that talked about the archetypes in these people and then created the mythos around the hero’s journey. That would be a journey like Christ. You start oppressed in huge challenges and so on and so forth, and everybody’s against you. And then through diligent work and a little bit of luck, you achieve this great thing, the hero’s journey. I would say applying that bit of storytelling into turning somebody from a cold into warming leads, you’d have to equate that, in my opinion, let’s see if you agree, in this storytelling method, I think you’d have to equate that with you’re on a journey, things are really hard right now, and we’re going to give you the tools to accomplish this very hard task, which in 2024, unfortunately for all of us, buying a home is a very hard task. And I perceive your hero’s journey being you give them the tools to be the hero. Is that what you meant?


[00:11:47.400] -Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, and you’re with them on this journey. So you initially offer something to induce their name and email, and you do some outreach to see just they might be further on the journey than normal. So it’s always best to do some initial outreach, but don’t overdo it. But then they’re on an email list, so you put them on a newsletter, but you actually put effort into that newsletter and you provide value. And periodically, you send them a special email with a additional real high value and content, maybe every quarter, but they’re in your cold list system in your CRM. But then if they come to your website and they have to log in after they’ve done some more searches, that means they’re a warmer probable prospect. So then you need to maybe send them more focused content based on the searches they’re doing, or you send them something where you say, I like to help you some more. Can you give me some more information? Then you can send them more customized outreach. But then they indicate that they’re further on on the journey. And And like on those warming ones, you might send a more periodically more individual content through Bombomb, or they might be on a list that people that you actually ring.


[00:13:46.280] -Jonathan Denwood

That’s what I mean. It’s a… There’s the initial part of the journey, there’s the medium part of the journey, and then there’s the part where they indicate to you that they’re active in the market and they really want your help. Well, that’s the hope, isn’t it?


[00:14:04.740] -Robert Newman

Yeah. I’m going to take everybody, you included on the little journey here. I’ve been a student of sales mechanisms and sales in general since the ’80s, early ’80s. And back in the day, the sales journey, the hero’s journey was always done in face-to-face because door knocking and in-person appointments were common. And so you would knock on a door, a person would answer the door. And then the common sales vernacular at the time was you needed to be able to overcome at least five objections. Objection, answer, response, answer, response, answer, response. As time has gone on, people started to change. They just simply wouldn’t sit around in a conversation with you, no matter how good, charismatic or eloquent you were, and just let you rebut them, rebut them, rebut them, rebut them. Brian Tracy was the first trainer who started talking about ancillary or additional touches, and he did a lot of studies with big corporations that he was consulting with that said, You’re going to get five touches from us, newsletter and email, so on and so forth. So theoretically, when we get on a call with you, some of those objections have been handled by the touches.


[00:15:14.860] -Robert Newman

That’s that he had to explain modern marketing in a way that all the people who are used to the old vernacular of door knocking and overcoming five objections would understand and not fight against because it was so thoroughly trained into all of us that you’re supposed to stay on that conversation or a butt over and over and over and over and over again until somebody said yes or gave you a final no. Well, I think that if we were to do a study today, We discover that people are very similar to thermometers or bank accounts and those touches that John is suggesting. Probably you need more like 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I doubt that five is the number anymore. A touch can be a video that they watch. And video is the best because video can account for many touches all at once. You get somebody watching you for 30 or 45 minutes, you can overcome 5 or 10 objections in a single video without ever speaking to somebody directly. Modern marketing has changed. We are now, all of us, capable of doing TV commercials and doing infomercials, and we have to cleverly impart that information so that somebody doesn’t turn us off.


[00:16:29.050] -Robert Newman

And if we do that successfully, very similar to infomercials, we oftentimes can do 5 or 10 objections. However, the old marketing analogy that Coca-Cola and all the big corporations have done, the reason that they do commercials and billboards and cans and things like that, I don’t know that most people understand this. There’s something called name familiarity or psychological familiarity, which is where we observe things in the background of our mind without ever responding to them. It’s no longer direct response marketing. It’s simply name brand or brand recognition marketing. Most people don’t realize that that marketing takes 10 or 20 times. I get calls and emails from all the time from people saying that they’ve already spoken to me, and they haven’t. What they have done is probably seeing my website When you see a website that has 780,000 impressions, but maybe 22,000 clicks, which I get all the time, you think to yourself, the 780,000 impressions is a waste of time. You’re wrong. You’re getting people, you’re warming people up as they see your URL in search results, and you might have to warm them up 10, 20, 30 times. The way I perceive your comments is very similar.


[00:17:41.590] -Robert Newman

The more important or directly aimed the piece of media is, such as an email sent directly to a person or video, the faster that that person warms up, going from cold to warm to hot, hot being, are they willing to talk to you and have a long conversation with you about whatever it is that you’re I think that you are correct. You listed a few things which we’re going to get into. We’re going to go to a break and we’re going to come back. And when we come back, we’re going to talk about some of the touches because John did get specific in many different touches that he listed, and I might add a few, too, John, about how you can touch people, give people that impression, warm them up, why that’s important, what size should you be as you consider these different methods of warming somebody up because some of these methods require expense and time. If you’re brand new directly into real estate, probably not for you. Some of these touches require nothing at all and might be interesting to some of you. We’ll be right back. We’re going to go to a break.


[00:18:47.540] -Robert Newman

I want to thank InboundREM and MailRight for sponsoring today’s show. They’ve been very generous to us. If you’d like to check them out, you can go to mail-right. Com or inboundREM. Com. If you do us all a favor and tell our sponsors how much you appreciate the content of the show today, we’d love you for it. All right, we’re coming right back at you. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mailright Show. Today’s subject is talking about how to turn cold leads hot, effectively. That’s what we’re talking about, taking a cold lead and make it hot. We’re going to I believe you, prior to the break, I was talking about, and John was talking about, things to warm leads up. And I was talking about, John did a pretty deep dive into psychology, which is interesting because that’s not usually a journey that you’ve taken us on too often.


[00:19:45.220] -Jonathan Denwood

So we’re-Oh, there’s many facets of me that I haven’t shown you, Robert.


[00:19:49.750] -Robert Newman

I have no doubt. So we’re going to talk about hot leads, how to personalize outreach. So why don’t you jump into that? Because all the research and background. So what were you thinking when you put down… I’m going to let you get into it.


[00:20:08.330] -Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, before that, I think there’s two things that I think… There’s two words I I call it pulsation and oscillation. I found, and I think you’ve hinted on this, that I have people that book a consultation with me, and we have a good chat, and then I don’t hear from them for months. Then they come back for a second consultation, and then they go away. I had one this on Monday. She must have spoken to me on three occasions over a year, and she gets very enthusiastic. Then she doesn’t follow through, and I think I’ve lost her, and she comes back again. If you’re really desperate for a sell, you really worry about this because you think, Well, I’ve got to convert. If you push that, I don’t know if you agree. I’d be interested in to see if you agree with this. But if you really push it, you’re going to lose them. I find it’s best to leave it and let them stew and just keep on producing value content. And some of them don’t come back, but a lot of them do. And there’s a certain… I didn’t realize they’re on this journey.


[00:21:37.180] -Jonathan Denwood

That’s the key of it. I used to try and force it, Rob. I didn’t accept they’re on the journey. And if you force But if they’re in the wrong point of the journey and you try and force it, I don’t think it works out that well.


[00:21:56.320] -Robert Newman

I agree. I I think that forcing people generally creates resistance. Resistance is not what you want. Most of my sales presentations that I design are designed with a simple concept but require a high degree of expertise. The concept is take all the objections that you know you’re going to get, which means you have to know what objections you’re going to get, and you answer them in your presentation. So theoretically, that by the time you’re done, nobody has any objections left. It comes down to the mechanics of, one, did you see the value? Two, if you did see the value, did you want to move forward? And three, if you don’t want to move forward, I don’t really personally take all that many objections anymore. I don’t respond to them. If somebody says they don’t want to move forward, I go, Great, here’s my information, and you can go your way and I’ll go mine. I find that that lack of interest, that seeming like lack of pursuit, is a reverse psychology mechanism that is as effective as any sales closing strategy I’ve ever gotten. My lack of interest and my lack of pursuit in leads oftentimes creates a sense of we don’t need the business, which means people want to give it to me more.


[00:23:10.420] -Robert Newman

Why doesn’t this guy need the business? Why does he need chasing me? The answer is pretty simple. Number one, I generally don’t need the business. Number two, the reason I don’t need the business is I’ve been so successful with the sales strategies that I have that I usually have enough people in the queue. I also do forced scarcity as part of my sales strategy and marketing strategy, and I understand it very well. I keep a team big enough on staff to scale up, but only slightly. So if we have a slightly bigger sales month than we were expecting, one or two additional clients, we run out of room to do projects. There’s no joke. That’s not me bullshitting. So unless I want to scale up, take on more people, train more people, we’re done. And I just say, Hey, we’re at capacity.


[00:23:51.850] -Jonathan Denwood

And that at capacity- And there’s the other factor, and I think agents, you got to face it, is, and it might become more prevalent, is I think Mailright and my other business offers great value, and we offer a lot of options. But there are a lot of people who get fixated. They’re looking for a certain level of outcome, a certain level of website, or a certain level of service, and their budget doesn’t meet their fixation about a certain level they’re looking for. And there’s no… Their expectation is linked to the budget which they’ve got. It’s so different to What? There’s no possibility of negotiation because what they’re seeking for what they’re prepared to pay for it is so out of kilter to what I could provide that there’s no meeting place to it. They just have to go to other providers or try other things and not get a lot of success. Then they come back, hopefully. Or they might be lucky and they might get successful, aren’t they?

[00:25:19.340] -Robert Newman

That is one of the things I love about inbound marketing. My job, my funnel to warm my leads up is to take the uneducated purchaser of services like mine and educate them. If they follow along with my content, eventually they arrive at my doorstep, educated in what is a reasonable expectation. Takes a lot of work and effort to produce content like that because you generally have to show people a lot of proof in today’s world. You can’t just say, You can just randomly expect this from BoomCat. They don’t believe you. They won’t believe you because you’re a competitor. You got to show them, have a login, look at the leads, talk to customers, do all that stuff. But once you do that, your client gets educated by you, which builds up trust. You answer the question. By the time they walk through the door, they have a reasonable expectation. But I do find that the sales call that I find hard for me to take, John, respond coldly to an email. They don’t do any research. They don’t watch any of my videos. They simply get an email from me that they barely I don’t even remember how they got on my email list.


[00:26:32.150] -Robert Newman

Then they call me because I happen to have the perfect subject line for them. Now I’m on the phone with somebody who doesn’t know me, doesn’t know what we do, doesn’t know what the pricing is. Just like, I want leads. Some of the time, they do want you to wave a magic wand and put warm leads into their inbox. If they could get it, they would go, I’ll give you $100. Give me five highly qualified leads. Thank you. And you’re like, Are you kidding me? I get you.


[00:27:00.480] -Jonathan Denwood

No. But get on to the specifics, but I thought that I should point that out. But I’m talking about the warm. They’ve got into your funnel by advertising, by content marketing, They’ve seen you on Instagram. They’ve come across one of your videos. The way you keep them from making warm is through your newsletter, through the videos you the stuff you put on Instagram and all the ways that you might touch them these 5-10 times on their seller or buyer journey. It could be In your newsletter, there will be a deal of a week, a property that you think would be interesting to your list, and then you can make a video of it, which then you share on your Facebook and Instagram, the news of the real estate market, a monthly synopsis of where the local market is because real estate is local. So that has value, and it also increases that you’re seen as the professional that has an interest in the market. You’re not just one of those who just want the commission check. You provide some value. Local things to do, that’s more abstract, but it’s content. And you can also build relationships with other local business owners by doing that.

[00:28:41.940] -Jonathan Denwood

And retargeting is one of the most cost-effective ways. If you’re going through Facebook, or mostly Facebook and Instagram, to some degree, also Google, these are all ways of turning your cold leads into more warm leads. And so they are still engaged with you where they do that outreach, where they give you signs by coming to your website and signing in to do searches and that, and then they’re warm and you do more… You phone them up, you send email, bonbon emails. A lot of agents just don’t understand this journey It’s good, isn’t it, Robert?


[00:29:32.270] -Robert Newman

I agree, and I think that the sooner… Listen, talking about taking warm lead to cold, inbound marketing is all about presenting value, value, value, value, and your main objective as an inbound marketer is just getting people to tune into your content. You’re not encouraging them to call you at any particular time. You’re not inundating them with anything like a request. You’re just saying, Here’s good helpful information. Here’s good helpful information. Here’s good helpful information. If you’re looking for real estate or lifestyle or the best restaurant in the area you’re thinking about moving to, or maybe you’re coming out to this area to explore it slightly. Well, here are some cool schools to check out, some cool parks to go to, and things that I think that you enjoy that is part of the lifestyle. Then, oh, by the way, if you want to talk about houses, I happen to be an expert in colonial or modern, whatever. You talk about, you focus on the useful. That, if people tune into you if they engage, however you get the information to them, whether they subscribe to your YouTube channel, your Facebook, or your email list, or your however, Twitter, whatever it is, as long as they’re tuning in to you and you’re giving them value information, What I hear you describing is the psychological stepping stairs of, I am getting to know you, getting to know you, getting to know you, getting to like you, getting to like you, getting to like you, and now I am perceiving you as a person I’m going to talk to for sure when I get ready to do X.

[00:31:03.550] -Robert Newman

That’s inbound. That’s warming somebody up to the point that by the time they call you, they’re usually better than a referral. Terms of lead quality, ROI, and conversion, they’re better than a referral. It’s an interesting… I love the digital age because it makes inbound marketing infinitely possible, which is a lot of what you’re talking about. But you also can do lead nurturing through low-quality lead acquisition, which is another subject. We’re just considering that introduction differently. And you grab that information, let’s say, off an ad, and then you build the value into the person once you have their information.

[00:31:41.580] -Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I call it becoming the trusted advisor, the trusted individual. There are other morphologies in real estate where they link it, and I find it, maybe because I’m English and the culture that I come from, They move it on to a step where the boundary between becoming a trusted adviser and a personised friend. I find that a bit cringy, I don’t particularly, but I do think it’s really important through this process, this journey, the buyer-seller journey, the hero’s journey, to be seen as the trusted adviser, to be seen as the source of your specialty. I think the agents that can do that in 2024 and beyond are the ones that will in the end be the successes and the ones that aren’t.

[00:32:48.630] -Robert Newman

I agree with you. All right, it’s been an interesting show. Ladies and gentlemen, we hope you enjoyed it. We’re going to wrap up. John, if you were going to have somebody come and try to talk to you about the Hero’s Journey storytelling or how you accomplish these things with Mailright and the various tools that you’ve built, how would they do that?


[00:33:09.650] -Jonathan Denwood

But before that, I think we’ve got to do a shout-out. We love people to join us live on the Mai-lRight Facebook page. I think you share it on your Facebook page as well. Join us live with any questions, or you can go to the Mailright YouTube channel, and you can answer questions. We do this at 2:00 PM Pacific Standard Time every Thursday. And if you got any questions, we will attempt to answer them during the show. And so that should be fun. I get a lot of people on my other podcast now asking live questions, and we love you to join us on the show as well. About Melright, just go to Have a look at some of the websites we’ve done. It’s a great, valued platform. And you also, the website that we build for you, you own it. So that’s great news. Back over to you, Rob.


[00:34:06.310] -Robert Newman

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Hey, listen, if you would like to talk to us and me, specifically, or learn anything about SEO, learn anything about hyper local, learn anything about YouTube, learn anything in general about storytelling or inbound marketing as it relates to real estate, specifically, go to I have copious amounts of free books, free information, no forms, no lockout, no anything that you have to sign up for. You just go and you should learn everything that you need to know about inbound marketing in 2024. All right, that’s it. Thank you so much, everybody, for tuning in. I appreciate it, and I think John does, too.


The Hosts of The Mail-Right Show

Jonathan Denwood


Robert Newman



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#430 – The Mail-Right Show:ChatGPT & AI Mastermind For Real Estate Agents

Tuesday, May 7th, 2024

#430 - The Mail-Right Show:ChatGPT & AI Mastermind For Real Estate Agents

ChatGPT & AI Mastermind For Real Estate Agents

Empower your real estate business with ChatGPT & AI mastermind. Revolutionize client interactions and boost sales with cutting-edge technology.

Experience a paradigm shift in real estate dynamics with ChatGPT & AI Mastermind! Witness firsthand how intelligent automation is reshaping the way agents operate in a competitive market landscape. Gain valuable insights on leveraging AI for lead generation, market forecasting, and personalized client experiences. Elevate your real estate game by embracing the future.

#1 – Writing Property Listings

When creating property descriptions based on fundamental details about a property, including its location, the number of guests it can accommodate, and other essential qualities, ChatGPT real estate can be a huge time-saver. Input this data into the chatbot, and its artificial intelligence (AI) algorithms will highlight the property’s advantages like a human would.

#2 – Creating Email & Social Media Marketing Campaigns

The real estate ChatGPT is an excellent listing description writer and can also construct fascinating email marketing journeys for your real estate leads. The same method applies: you provide some essential characteristics about the client—such as the sort of property they are interested in, when their lease expires, or any other information you would like to emphasize in the email—and ChatGPT for real estate takes care of the rest.

#3 – Personalizing Property Listings & Emails

Every potential buyer or tenant has different requirements and tastes regarding the property. While some people prefer natural light and space, others might emphasize proximity to facilities like subterranean stations. However, you only have one listing for a property that, with the right marketing, you know would work for both of them. And ChatGPT for Real Estate can help in this situation.

#4 – Improving Your Emails & Texts

Real estate brokers can use ChatGPT’s capabilities because, if your initial attempt fails to yield the intended outcome, you can always ask the chatbot to modify your copy by providing additional context or explicit instructions, such as “Your email is too long.” “Your copy is too wordy and formal. Please keep it as short as possible.” Could you keep it shorter and more informal?

#5 – Writing Scripts

Before Chat GPT on the scene in 2022, one of the most time-consuming jobs in real estate was writing scripts for films and virtual tours.

ChatGPT can write a screenplay for you in seconds, whether for a funny video, an engaging advertisement, or a formal corporate presentation.

In response to my prompt, ChatGPT real estate produced the following for me: “Write a two-minute script detailing Chat GPT’s applications in the real estate industry.”

#6 – Generating Ideas & Topics

Apart from writing compelling copy, Chat GPT in real estate can help agents brainstorm fresh ideas for their social media marketing, YouTube videos, blog posts, and newsletters.

#7 – Drafting Legal Documents

Thanks to its extensive knowledge base and natural language processing capabilities, ChatGPT can save you time and effort by helping real estate agents create various legal documents, including contracts, lease agreements, and rules.

For example, the gpt-3 real estate produced a quite convincing-looking contract in answer to my request that it “draft me a tenancy agreement”:
Lease contract ChatGPT

#8 – Summarizing Long Documents into Short Abstracts

Asking ChatGPT to condense a lengthy text, such as an article or document, into a manageable abstract is another excellent way to use it in the real estate industry. Here’s what the chatbot produced for me when I asked it to summarize the article that contrasted Dynamics AI advancements with Salesforce:

#9 – Translating Emails & Texts

Another ultimate benefit of using Chat GPT in real estate is that realtors and brokers can easily translate their correspondence or property listings into another language. For example:

#10 – Enhanced Customer Support

Customer assistance is another area where ChatGPT for real estate can benefit clients and realtors alike. Here, I see two primary strategies:

ChatGPT can assist with copywriting by crafting tailored responses to clients’ questions. When a client submits a request, a complaint, or feedback, ChatGPT may promptly provide an intelligent, customized response that considers their particular issues.

Episode Full Show Notes

[00:00:05.360] – Robert Newman

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 430 of the MailRight Show. John and I were having a lively conversation about this subject, and here’s what the subject is. Chatgpt, an AI Mastermind for Real Estate Agents. Now, Mastermind is It’s an old Napoleon Hill concept that John may or may not know, and it is definitely something that he probably pulled out of a keyword titling thing. But a mastermind generally takes people with different parts of expertise, puts them together in one room, and discusses it. Right now, the mastermind will be John and I, but we’re hoping that all of you will make this a more live, robust conversation wherever you see this content, wherever you listen to it, which is a podcast tool or like YouTube. We will ask you to do us a favor and join this conversation. We want to know about your experiences with ChatGPT as it applies to practically applying it to your real estate business. Right, John? Yeah, sure.

[00:01:15.240] – Jonathan Denwood
[00:01:16.280] – Speaker 1

No, not yet. Sure. Go, yes. Go, yes. We would really love to hear from you.

[00:01:23.980] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I was going to tell them how they can join us. Okay, go. We do this every Thursday at 2:00 PM Pacific Standard Time. You can ask us questions if you go to the Mel-Right YouTube channel or the Mel-Right Facebook page. You can be part of the discussion discussions. We’re quite open to answering any questions during the show, and you can be part of the discussion. So remember, join us at 2:00 PM every Thursday.

[00:01:56.590] – Speaker 1

Brilliant. What John said, agreed. As John constantly says in the show notes, we will both say, actually, he does the donkey work on the show. It’s just his English way of saying he produces the show. And so most of this stuff is on his channels because I’m not putting it on the Inbound R&D.

[00:02:18.380] – Jonathan Denwood

I don’t mind being classified as a donkey, folks.

[00:02:21.620] – Speaker 1

You classified yourself that way. I like donkeys, especially if you’ve got carrots in your pockets.

[00:02:30.000] – Jonathan Denwood

But Rob and I are not puppy killers. That’s the main thing.

[00:02:37.310] – Speaker 1

Wow, that was a tangent. But yes, we’re not puppy killers. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ll open up this conversation, but before we do, there’s an English bloke whose voice you hear, and some of you may not know this gentleman. I’m going to ask that gentleman to introduce himself. If you’d like to know him a little better, you have a way to do that. Go ahead, John. Introduce yourself.

[00:03:01.800] – Jonathan Denwood

I just want to know, Rob, who publishes a book and says they shot their puppy and then they kill a goat?

[00:03:09.040] – Speaker 1

I have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t keep up with popular culture, so you’re referencing something really popular. I have no idea.

[00:03:17.100] – Jonathan Denwood

There’s some crazy lady who’s a governor, and she wrote a book where she said she shot a puppy dog. Also, she got rid of a goat she didn’t like. That’s horrible, isn’t it, Rob?

[00:03:35.920] – Speaker 1

Well, sounds like a psychopath to me, but whatever. That is what it is.

[00:03:40.210] – Jonathan Denwood

I got my thoughts, Rob, but I’m an animal lover at heart.

[00:03:45.210] – Speaker 1

Well, us poor, soft West Coast Liberals, not wanting to kill animals and stuff like that. Yeah, we’re big old wimps out here. I’m going to go with you on not killing a puppy dog with your own two hands.

[00:04:04.370] – Jonathan Denwood

She has done it with her rifle. She shot it right between the eyes as you do.

[00:04:09.230] – Speaker 1

Okay, well, at least she made it quick. I don’t know. All right. John, you haven’t introduced yourself yet. You were really on one today. Can you please tell everybody how to find you if they want to?


[00:04:24.290] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, thanks, Rob. I’m the joint founder of mail-right. Com. We build really great-looking websites on WordPress. Plus, we’ve got a CRM, a lead-generative platform, text messaging, email, a social media calendar, and a way of getting better reviews for Google and for whatever platform you need your reviews on. It’s a great system, folks, at a great price. Back over to you, Rob.

[00:04:56.230] – Speaker 1

All right, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Robert Newman. I am the founder of Inbound. I am another founder, no surprise. I do SEO and search Engine Optimization, meaning we can find videos on YouTube. I can get your hyper-local profile ranked against your competitors. For Google, my business is Google Maps functionality. I could get you found in traditional search, and I also build websites just like John does. But I am a different classification. I am more of a marketing company that builds websites than a website company that markets. If any of you are interested in any of that, go to inboundrem. Com. And true to the inbound marketing bit, we have massive amounts of information to teach you how to do all this stuff for free. You do not need to hire me. So if you’re interested in learning about real estate SEO, go to my website, YouTube SEO, go to my website, Hyperlocal, go to my website. It’s all there. It’s all free. Most of it is written by me, and I’m touched by me as my team writes it. Okay, with that said, let’s jump right into our meaty subject, which has taken us a grand total of six minutes to get into today, which is a record.

[00:06:12.540] – Jonathan Denwood

It is. It’s all my fault, isn’t it? You’re going to blame me anyway, aren’t you?

[00:06:18.250] – Speaker 1

Experience a paradigm shift in real estate dynamics with ChatGPT and AI Mastermind. Let’s talk about automation. John did a whole bunch of notes on this here today, and he’s got a number of subjects which I’m just going to briefly encapsulate for the audience. Property listings, email and social media marketing campaigns, personalizing emails, Property listings, again, emails and property listings. Again, emails and text, script writing, ideas and topics, drafting documents, legal documents, summarizing long documents into short abstracts, translating email and text, enhance customer support. Effectively, these are the areas that we’ve heard a lot about AI improving. I’m just going to give this disclaimer. John and I had a long conversation about AI before the show started. John was saying how useful it was for a person that has dyslexia. I was saying how I haven’t actually managed to find a completely perfect application yet for it. I use it, but it barely saves me money because we have to edit every page that we write with it. It is so far a little bit tricky if you’re trying to make sure that your voice sounds authentic. However, we do both believe that there are some strong applications.


[00:07:42.110] – Speaker 1

We may come at this slightly differently. Having said that, number one, writing property listings, why don’t you share with me what you were thinking when you said to use AI for property listings?


[00:07:54.770] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I think it’s the blank page syndrome, as I’ll put it. If you got to knock out some listings and you got the blank page, you say, Oh, I just can’t do this. I just cannot face this today. So you leave it for the next day And then something comes up because you’re a real estate agent, and then the next day comes up and you still haven’t done it because it’s the blank page syndrome. Well, using AI, it can really help if you’re suffering from the blank page syndrome, as I call it. You’re facing that word document or Google, whatever you’re using to write. And it just gets you over the hunt using AI. But you’re You are going to have to edit it because it could get fax wrong, basically. So you are going to have to check it. But I think it’s a really great thing if you’re suffering from that blank Page syndrome.


[00:09:00.130] – Speaker 1

I don’t disagree with you. I think there’s a lot of limitations and things of that nature in terms of I just… You know what? I think you have to be very, very, very cautious.


[00:09:30.240] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, for those of you- Yeah, sorry, I’m in to… I think the problem with it is you start knocking it out and you don’t check it and you send it out. That’s the main problem, isn’t it?


[00:09:45.390] – Speaker 1

I wouldn’t disagree with that. Listen, blank page syndrome, as it was just described, I’m in agreement with that. Okay? My hesitation, the reason I’m sitting here is I haven’t had very many clients that really read this stuff. So making that recommendation So maybe you read it, John. And I believe that if you’re going to say, hey, I read it, I’m going to go, of course you read it. But to say, I’ll give you all an example. Some of this could have been written by AI, some of it absolutely positively wasn’t. Let’s see if everybody in the audience can guess what’s what. So here’s a listing that was for one of my favorite agents that I follow, Christoff, too, and this is what he wrote. We just listed this stunning new home, Embrace the Pinnacle of Beverly Hills Luxury Living on one of the best streets in the Coveted Flats, introducing a mesmerizing, newly constructed masterpiece listed at 23,950,000. Just completed in 2024, this architectural marvel boasts seven opulent bedrooms, 10 lavish bathrooms across an expansive 11,446 square foot floor plan. Nestled on a substantial 15,580 square foot lot, every inch exudes contemporary grandeure, blended with timeless design.


[00:11:07.550] – Speaker 1

From the Integriate Pathways leading to serene outdoor lounging areas to the bold lines and soaring ceilings within, each space captivates with its blend of elegance and state-of-the-art amenities. This residence is not a statement of luxury. It’s a canvas where your most cherished memories will unfold. Discover the epitome of Beverly Hills Elegance, a home where every detail caters the pinnacle of high-end living. What do you think?


[00:11:31.510] – Jonathan Denwood

You sold it to me, Rob. It’s a bargain at 23 million, isn’t it?


[00:11:39.630] – Speaker 1

Exactly. I would say that less than 10% of that could have been written by AI, had you wanted to. When you’re putting it on the page and saying, Let’s use AI to get a conversation started, I feel like you would have probably mostly rewritten that. Is it still a good tool? Yes. Would it work for a certain set of people? Super ADHD, super ADHD, Super neurodivergent dyslexic. Yes, it would. It would probably allow your creative juices to trigger. But for everybody else, I think it would mostly be confusing, in my opinion. There’s no way that Christoff used AI for this or could even use AI for something like this.


[00:12:18.520] – Jonathan Denwood

We have to agree to disagree there. I see where you’re coming from, though. It’s not that I’m-How would AI even come close to getting any of those details right? Well, I thought it was a bit too wordy anyway. I think most people are going to look at the images, going to look at the video, and I think you could half that in size. It was pretty good writing, but it was going on a bit for my taste.


[00:12:44.920] – Speaker 1

Got you. Well, for ladies and gentlemen, this is one of the very, very, very rare occasions where John and I strongly disagree. We occasionally disagree. We don’t usually strongly disagree. I think that when you’re competing for a $24 million property, things like, It’s a canvas where your most cherished memories will unfold. Like, John’s laughing because he’s not- Well, I’m a dickhead.


[00:13:12.440] – Jonathan Denwood

I’m a cynical English dick.


[00:13:14.540] – Speaker 1

I think that a certain level of person is going to appreciate the poetic flourish. The level of person that I mean is somebody not necessarily educated, much more as driven, who’s going to appreciate the creativity of somebody like Christoff. Seeing as how Christoff is traditionally- I love the guy.


[00:13:35.230] – Jonathan Denwood

He’s been on the show. He’s a great guy. I really enjoyed the interview. Hopefully, you might come back on it. You have to rustle him up, won’t you? All right. But Yeah, it’s just not that language isn’t my cup of tea. It’s just shorter the better. But everybody’s different.


[00:13:55.520] – Speaker 1

Fair enough. Number two, creating tend. And ladies and gentlemen, right there is probably the defining difference, the defining debate between you and AI. It’s going to depend on who you are. Probably also explains for everybody listening to show why I’m not using it very much, and John is, which is not to knock anything. If you’re a nuts and bolts, up in your face marketer, pure and simple, AI can do a fantastic job for you and it can save you a lot of time. If you’re already somebody who is probably leading or creating the ideas or creating a thought leader, whether that’s for real estate or anything else, then AI is probably actually going to lower the quality of your work output and you’re going to be like…


[00:14:42.650] – Jonathan Denwood

I’ve been using it for over a year now. I was an early doctor, and I’ve got my suite of tools now, my AI tools. It took over a year of trying different tools, and I spent a bit of my money on AppSuma. It’s a website, folks, where you can buy new technology at a discount price. Some of the tools I bought didn’t really work out. They were rubbish, didn’t really work for me. Other tools, I’ve got enormous of value, but it’s taken me over a year of different trying, different things, different processes. So that’s my experience. You So you got to play around with it, and you got to find different tools for different scenarios. But I think it’s made a big difference in my output.


[00:15:44.110] – Speaker 1

Beautiful. All right, so number two, are you using it to do email and social media marketing campaigns? You got that on number two on the list, creating 10 email and social media marketing campaigns. Do you use ChatGPT for these things?


[00:15:59.400] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, for my newsletter, parts of it, I do utilize it, but I read it, I edit it, I humanize it, as I call it humanized. I’m not sure if that word actually exists, but it should do, shouldn’t it, Rob? It’s not a bad word, is it?


[00:16:14.710] – Speaker 1

It does exist, yeah.


[00:16:16.840] – Jonathan Denwood

Humanized. I insert my humor. Well, some Americans don’t think I’m very humanized, do they, Rob?


[00:16:26.940] – Speaker 1

You are very English, I will say that.


[00:16:29.520] – Jonathan Denwood

Yes, I am very English.


[00:16:31.460] – Speaker 1

Go ahead, but you use it.


[00:16:34.440] – Jonathan Denwood

Is that dramatic? You think it’s helped you? Well, because you’re my associate, we’ve never met in person, have we? No. But one day we have to, won’t we? But I think you appreciate some of my comments, but other people think I’m a total dick. I love English humor.


[00:16:58.230] – Speaker 1

Yeah, you do. But But I’m a dick, too. So what does that say for either one of us? All right, so we’re going to go to break, ladies and gentlemen, because John has… I have twice asked him the question about his email and using it, and he’s only answered it once. So we’re just going to come back from break and jump into number three, which is personalizing property listings and emails. I do not use ChatGPT for any of our emails or social media marketing campaigns. I find the editing process tedious. Yes, I can produce something in a second. I’ve done it many times, and then I completely rewrite it, which drives me crazy. I just don’t use it. But that’s, again, just the defining difference between us. I can make a social post, though, in under 20 seconds. It has some value. There are some areas I do use Chat2PT, which don’t appear to be in John’s email, but I will cover them in the bonus section at the end of the video, I also have a high level of hope for some technology that is related to AI that is John didn’t cover here, and I’m going to cover that, too.


[00:18:11.190] – Speaker 1

We’ll go to break. We’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the MailRight Show. We’re coming back from a very long, heated discussion. No, I’m just kidding. We’re not. It was two seconds after I said break. But we’re going to jump right back into the subject matter for the show today, which is personalizing property listings and emails every potential tenant or has different requirements of taste when it comes to the property. While some people prefer natural and light space, others might prefer the importance of subterráumacy stations. All right, so This is one area where I would agree with John. I don’t know if that’s what he intended or not, but I’m going to jump in here because I’ve been handing this off to John many times. But there is something called tone. Very few clients of mine in real estate I’ll never talk to you about tone. You can do personalized, folksy, happy, upbeat, clinical, technical. There’s all these tones that you can hit. Tools like Grammarly and other tools that we do use inside our business oftentimes can alter or change the tone of something for you. Now, I don’t get this often in my business.


[00:19:22.070] – Speaker 1

We don’t oftentimes getting somebody saying that they want to change the tone. However, every once in a while, you come across an English major or something like that, or a lawyer, or somebody who’s got some very high pedigree degree that I do. And every time, they tend to be extremely time consuming clients.


[00:19:48.330] – Jonathan Denwood

That’s very helpful.


[00:19:51.400] – Speaker 1

I struggled with that one. So some of the time, you want to make sure that you’re nailing the writing that they want. In this one circumstance, ChatGPT could do an incredibly fast, efficient job of producing three or four tonally different things above without what they were asking. In that one case, I could see ChatGPT saving me many hours of time, and I really like it for that. John, when I read this statement, that’s what I heard, that’s what I saw, that’s what I wanted to comment What do you think? What did you mean when you put this on here?


[00:20:35.030] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, basically what you’ve outlined, but I use Grammarly. It’s a great tool. Then I use another product called Hemingway. Hemingway really helps. It depends on how important I think the piece because Hemingway… Well, Hemingway is very different, folks, to Grammarly. You’ve probably heard of Grammarly. I would highly recommend it. I’ve got the pro-version. Grammarly and Hemingway. Hemingway, the free version is pretty good, but I’ve actually got the paid version on both. Hemingway, you put stuff in and it tells you the tone. And also, Because most people read, the recommendation is you write most of your material at a grade seven level, and most people, their writing style, and I think I’ve got somebody in front of me on what that might write a bit sophisticated. You actually need to tone it down to a grade seven level for it, but it just depends on the target audience, obviously.


[00:21:45.000] – Speaker 1

No, you’re right. For SEO, John is 100% correct. Actually, for search engine optimization, John has touched on one of the very few things that I don’t follow exactly along. Neil Patel, who’s a guy that I’ve read extensively, and one could say, argue that he’s been my mentor in SEO. He’s certainly been one of them. I’ve referred to countless of material, attended countless webinars. Neil has been fantastic, and he doesn’t know me. Never met me, doesn’t know who I am. But he says, Do sixth, seventh grade. So does Nathan Gotch, the only guy that doesn’t necessarily go along with everything is Brian Dean. In terms of major influence- Brian Dean’s turned me down three times to go on my other podcast.


[00:22:39.320] – Jonathan Denwood

I pursued him over about 10 years, and he said, No, three times. Gosh, he’s the only person that’s done that?


[00:22:50.230] – Speaker 1

I love… There’s probably reasons for that. But so, ladies and gentlemen, listen, John’s right. Your reading is supposed to be easy and understandable, and I tend to drift towards the theatric. That’s probably because in my personal life, I’m somewhat of an artistic, goth-like poetry guy. And so I do use a lot of flowery words. My lead writer does, too, is a degree from Oxford in writing, which is probably why you appeal to me so much. He’s not a native SEO guy. Technically, neither am I. We’re more like writers, writers. And Now, that probably creates a lot of the tonality that you’re getting from me on ChatGPT, and you really should take my thoughts about it with a grain of salt. If you’re looking for sixth or seventh grade stuff, you’re looking for something to save you some time, you’re not dealing with… If you’re anywhere where your audience, Virginia, and I can go on and on, where your audience is not sitting here trying to check your work for its creative license or flair, ChatGPT is going to be amazing. Gamechanger is great.


[00:23:56.100] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, it’s not meant for… And when it comes to long form, I produce a lot of content, and I normally add video to almost all of it where I put across my personality. But that’s why you have to use something like Hemingway, because it would chat with these AI writing tools, folks, when it comes to medium to long form, it tends to be wordy. Almost all of it, I have to do a strong edit and remove quite a bit of it and then add a bit of my own, put it in him in a way, clean it up and add video and other bits to it to make it a more unique resource that Google’s looking for. But most people, they tend to over Their writing style is too sophisticated for their target audience. But that’s a generality, but that is generally the situation.


[00:24:58.960] – Speaker 1

Just a quick note for everybody, including John, ladies and gentlemen, if you’re not doing some of these high degree of edits, and I’m just going to say from an SEO perspective, I’ve spent an entire year watching Google pummel what they’re calling low-quality content. It’s another way of saying, if you’ve written something that widely resembles somebody else’s content and you don’t have video or something on there, separating the page from other people, you are not going to do shit inside the SEO world. So please Please don’t look at this as that. If you’re looking to do some technical writing, fill a website up and have it be useful and informative, but not necessarily ranked for SEO, by all means, proceed forward with ChatGPT and other tools. It is almost taking a professional designation to understand what you could and could not do with ChatGPT and rank for SEO safely. That’s probably a whole show unto itself, John.


[00:25:54.910] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, it might do that next week. Shall we do that next week?


[00:25:57.750] – Speaker 1

Yeah. Let’s keep going with this one, though. Improving your emails and text. Now, here, finally, is likely someplace we would agree heavily. So go ahead and share your thoughts here.


[00:26:08.140] – Jonathan Denwood

Oh, sorry. Which one we’re doing?


[00:26:09.670] – Speaker 1

Improving emails and text. Is that not where we’re on?


[00:26:12.240] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, it’s… Shall we move on? Sure.


[00:26:15.510] – Speaker 1

Writing scripts. Writing scripts.


[00:26:18.170] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I think that really can… Especially because you got TikTok, you got Instagram, you got Short Form on YouTube. We’ve covered this. We’ve actually even covered the tools that can help you put in a long form video and then cut it up. I haven’t done it, really, because I’ve been focused on about three Pacific social media platforms, and I’ve been just individualizing the content on these different platforms because they’re targeted at slightly different audiences. Audiences. The three that I publish a lot to YouTube, I publish a lot to LinkedIn, and I do a lot of SEO writing articles. But they’re aimed at slightly different audiences. So that’s what I concentrate. But I think for real estate, doing video and then utilizing these tools tools and enable you to write scripts. There’s even a tool that a lot of people, they can’t… It took me a long while to be able to look straight into the camera and just yack, basically, and write bullet points and memorize them. I’ve always had a good memory of memorizing a lot of information, so I don’t find it difficult. Other people that really difficult. So they have their notes and they write the whole thing out.


[00:28:05.050] – Jonathan Denwood

So you’re moving back and forth. Well, this actual technology, you’re looking at your notes, back, notes, back. It actually forms the video, so your eye is always at the camera. It’s amazing. So there are technologies that are really in the AI space, especially around video script production. Production that are really quite useful, Robert.


[00:28:33.890] – Speaker 1

Copy you. My team is using ChatGPT for metadata, which I didn’t realize. I just logged into our ChatGPT account to do some support research for this show that we’re doing right now and discovered that they’re seemingly using some ChatGPT stuff for what they’re calling a CTA. Home, which is like click through language. And so, discover the serenity of all the Caliente Ranch estates in East two back, explore spaces, properties, nestled in breathtaking natural surroundings. Don’t wait. Visit us today. The click-through was, visit us today to find your dream home. It’s not bad. As a matter of fact, I would argue it’s probably as good as anything that my junior SEO guys would do. So it’s probably improving our overall quality at a certain level as it relates to massive work that we’re doing on the client side. I feel like it would do the same thing for you guys, the people listening to the show. Writing scripts is another thing. Write a script about Caliente Ranches in Tubak. Caliente Ranch. In Tubak, it’s probably not going to be descriptive enough. I I need to make it like what script. Sure, here’s a script for a video.


[00:30:07.230] – Speaker 1

Drone footage at the expansive landscape surrounding… So opening shot. So it’s drone footage, narrator, Welcome to Caliente Ranch, a hidden gym, nestled in the heart of Toubac, Arizona. Here’s the promising tranquility. Seen transition, aerial view of the Ranch properties in the morning sun, casting a gleaming light. Narrator at Caliente Ranch, each home is a masterpiece designed to blend seamlessly. And what the large What language models are doing is they’re looking around for other people who’ve already done content on Caliente Ranch. Now, Toubach is a very small town, but somewhere, somehow, ChatGPT has pulled this language or is extrapolating. The problem with the tool is the extrapolation part. It may or may not have homes that blend naturally into the landscape and call it into a ranch. I have to check that. I have to check that right now. That’s what I have noticed about AI and writing scripts. However, it just did pull out a massive scene thing. It even told me what to use a drone. It could theoretically be saving me hours of time, just depending upon your level of experience and where you’re at as a human being. For that, I deeply think that writing scripts and things like that, like something more complicated that you require ideas for, I give this It’s a 10 of 10.


[00:31:31.470] – Speaker 1

It’s a great tool for that, John. Maybe you need to get clever about the way they’re putting in words, but great tool. Generating ideas and topics, I feel like we just covered. Would you agree? Okay. Number seven, drafting legal documents. We certainly haven’t talked about that yet.


[00:31:47.710] – Jonathan Denwood

You lead into this. I don’t think that’s a good idea.


[00:31:52.520] – Speaker 1

Jesus fucking Christ. Okay, we’re going to skip past that. John’s the one who put this topic here. He probably meant AI. Write the description for the show.


[00:32:02.820] – Jonathan Denwood

I got these on general. I got from various websites. I don’t agree with everything else. It’s probably written by AI. But no, I think That’s the area that could get you into some really hot water very quickly. I agree.


[00:32:24.420] – Speaker 1

If you’re going to use something to go to a website like Legal Zoom, where they’ll charge you a pittance, but they could take responsibility for the result. I would not use AI to draft legal documents personally. I would absolutely take the shortcut of going to legal zoom or something similar and spend a few dollars or a membership fee and get my documents templated by them, no problem. I would do that in a heartbeat. Number seven or number eight, summarizing long documents into short abstracts.


[00:32:59.780] – Jonathan Denwood

I think it’s great for that.


[00:33:02.750] – Speaker 1

So do I. Let’s move on. Number nine, translating emails and text. Hit me with that one, John.


[00:33:08.460] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I think we mentioned that in the first half of the show. If you got a strong Spanish-speaking population, it will make mistakes. I’ve got a lot of experience in websites, in multiple languages, because my other business, and WordPress is really strong. There are some technologies, some specific plugins. Translate Press is one that we use a lot, but then we don’t recommend Google Translate. We utilize another language system. It’s called DeepL, I think it’s called. We’ve got an agency plan with DeepL, and we found it does a better job than Google Translate. And we use that quite successfully with a number of clients.


[00:34:06.710] – Speaker 1

Beautiful. I’ll tell you what, ladies and gentlemen, I pay $20 for a master ChatGPT license. For that $20, I get access to ChatGPT for and I get lots of interesting things. Right now, I’ve just gotten a complete script, including ideas for what was wrong. I said, Give me an an idea for a real estate marketing video, and they took it to me in real estate, like real estate marketing for you guys. I meant real estate marketing for me. Chatgpt didn’t understand the difference. But it doesn’t matter. I got a cool idea Great. But I will say this, it’s a very good tool for shortening a lot of different timelines for real estate agents. I will probably cover some of the ones that I like, and I will show you what you get for your $20. For many of you, that $20 would be the greatest savings that you’re ever going to find inside your career as a real estate agent. You could save yourself the money for a high-level creative resource. You could do any number of different things. You can get an idea simply and put forward, including voiceover ideas, scene fours. This could shorten the timeline dramatically, even using services like Fiverr.


[00:35:28.730] – Speaker 1

You could save yourself so much time and money. I don’t have words for it, depending on where you’re at with your career. But if you’re brand new, ChatGPT could be worth tens of thousands of dollars for the $20 that you’re spending per month. That I love ChatGPT for. I love it for that, especially for those of you who are brand new. Now, last but not least, translating emails in text is, John, is absolutely correct. Enhance customer support. Talk to me about that for a second, and then we’re- Well, it’s not as bad as the legal thing.


[00:36:04.600] – Jonathan Denwood

But what I mean by it, folks, is that this is going to apply to chat on your website, basically This was pushed. There are some specific services aimed in the real estate industry. Got a lot of track. I do get a lot of flow by having a chat, but It’s one of my team that answers, or it’s mostly me that answers. It pops up on my computer, so you get a reply from me. When it’s automated, I know what this is going to be used for. I know how it’s going to be pitched in the real estate industry. It’s already been pitched in the way I thought it was going to be pitched. I think this is only to my view of it, is be a bit cautious about this, because the fundamental thing, just be a bit cautious. But if you’re on the road, then it could stop a client. It could get a client’s details, and so you then can bring them up. It swings aroundabouts. But I’m just a little bit reluctant in this area by the way it’s been talked about and pitched, if you know what I mean, Robert.


[00:37:34.040] – Speaker 1

I do. I do. Doing chat bots for customer support. I’ve experienced more than I built. I have hated every single one with a burning passion that defies my ability to communicate it to you on this podcast. I always figure it out.


[00:37:55.980] – Jonathan Denwood

We want to keep it semi-clean, don’t we?


[00:37:59.630] – Speaker 1

Oh, my God, I hate it. The second I figure out I’m speaking to a bot, big, giant companies now have your online experience, the first minute or two, all served up by chatbot. And even though it’s reasonable because they usually ask a set number of questions, I wouldn’t say I like that, too. And when I found people trying to do collaborative customer service through a chatbot, most of the time, they lost my business instantaneously, regardless of the personal cost to me. I don’t care. You’re going to put me on with an AI bot or something like that? I’m sorry. F you. I would say that for those weird humans out there, I’m not alone. I may be a little unique. I don’t think I’m the majority. I think I’m 10 to 20% of the world. Unfortunately for all of you, though, I’m the 10 to 20 % that has means, and you don’t want to piss me off if I’m your customer. So I will tell everybody listening to the show, Hey, listen, use that with an incredibly high degree of confidence. I would say use it only if you’re positively stuck, have no other choice whatsoever, and need customer service.

[00:39:24.400] – Jonathan Denwood

And it’s been pushed by… I won’t name names because I’m just the one of the Agro, but it’s been pushed. Ai, this particular area has been tried hard.

[00:39:37.750] – Speaker 1

By every single major real estate marketing company out there, you don’t have to name names. They all are doing it for the most part. There are only a couple of exceptions. So you and I can remain the anachronist that we are and go; we wouldn’t do this. Everybody listening to the show, decide for yourself. But if you’re a significant broker, maybe you’ve got to consider Chat AI because you don’t have 5, $10,000 a month to do proper customer service across a huge database. Certainly, in that case, you need to look John up, Jonathan Dinwood, at Mailright. You can Google that or Robert Newman or to get some creative ideas about your other solution. Because honest to God, you’re probably going to lose customers. But if you don’t care, if you’re doing property management as an example, property management might be an area where I would reluctantly consider this because so many renters have such time-consuming and minor questions. But you’d have to have a way for them to get to you for significant property damage considerations. But all the random stuff people ask, why wasn’t the hedge trimmed correctly?

[00:40:47.690] – Speaker 1

Yeah, I think you don’t need to put a real, live human being on the phone for that. Now, ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to wrap up the show and I will say I have some high hopes for voiceover technology. I have quite a few people in my database already using voice samples to create complete and totally accurate voice translations on top of video scripts using AI-related tools. I have a client, a guy that I’m consulting with whom I have massive, huge respect for, who has talked to me about this extensively. His name is Joe Manny, USA. He’s one of, in my opinion, only in my opinion, a top 10 digital marketer in the US. Nobody’s heard of him because he’s in Tallahassee, which is a small, super-small market. He doesn’t have an outside. He has a very big reputation in a very tiny, tiny, tiny little marketplace. All sorts of people are thought leaders in real estate who are starting to use AI applications like that. Now, the one I’m most excited about that we are very close to doing is a complete and total representation on video.

[00:42:01.110] – Speaker 1

You can already do deep fakes. The only reason that I’m not talking about them yet is that they’re a little too time-consuming to produce properly for real estate. If you’re doing a montage where you’re going to get 2 million views and use a famous person, that all makes sense based on the result. If you’re trying to do it, I want to take you, John, out of a video, but I want to produce a video for your site, thing, but it’s for a little real estate market, it still hasn’t quite caught up to us. That’s But we’re not that far away. We’re close. And the minute that we get there, instead of worrying about plagiarizing every other human on the planet, what I’m super excited about is being able to take all of my clients who don’t want to get on film and being able to use this to potentially at least put their feet in the water as it relates to leveraging video correctly. What you had to say, you got super excited.

[00:42:58.630] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I’m just thinking, can it be horrendous for a virtualized video version of me, Robert?

[00:43:09.230] – Speaker 1

I use you as the foil to my comments.

[00:43:13.960] – Jonathan Denwood

Can you imagine it? It’s like a weapon against Russians. You could use it as a virtual weapon, could you?

[00:43:20.310] – Speaker 1

Don’t get me even started. I’ll start singing, sing to you. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we will wrap the show-up. I think we’ve said a lot of good stuff. And there are a few other areas that I’ll have to research a little bit deeper before I say them live on a podcast format. Ai is very high on my list. Just a matter of fact, I’m going to get off this show, do an AI video for Inbound REN, and talk about ChatGPT. For those of you who are maybe my followers that listen to the show, go to the YouTube channel. You’ll see something coming from me on that. YouTube channel, you can just Google Inbound REN on YouTube. You can Google Inbound RM to find out how to reach me. You can also contact If you’d like to email me, feel free to contact me. Just go to my website. You’ll find all the info about me and everything else you didn’t need to know right there. John, take it away, sir.

[00:44:15.650] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, and if you have any questions, we’re trying to answer them live. To join us, go to the Melright YouTube channel or the MailRight Facebook page. And like I say, we do this show religiously every Thursday at around 2:00 PM Pacific Standard Time. We love you to join us. Do you have any questions for Robert or myself? Like I said, we’re answering during the show. Back over to you, Rob.

[00:44:45.010] – Speaker 1

All right, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining the MailRight show today as we talk about we start to dig into these AI subjects. We’re going to tackle another show next week where we’ll talk… What did we decide? And it’s going to be how we can properly apply… What was the subject?

[00:44:58.350] – Jonathan Denwood

It will come to me. I can’t remember it at the present moment.

[00:45:01.490] – Speaker 1

We’re great, aren’t we, guys? We came up with it super hot. He’ll look at the video notes and develop the subject matter. But next week, we’ll also probably be talking about the proper application of AI.

[00:45:10.990] – Jonathan Denwood

Using AI in SEO in a more concentrated focus.

[00:45:18.620] – Speaker 1

There you go how you could do it. Click through. Cta is a great place to start. Metadata is a great place to start. Tiny, specific things where ChatGPT is, I’m literally taking from hundreds of possible examples and mixing it up slightly, which is the simpler stuff it does, and it does very well. I’m excited to get into how you can use it, where it is efficient and can be used for SEO. The answer to these questions is often yes, but only in particular tasks. All right. Thank you so much, everyone. John, turn us off.

The Hosts of The Mail-Right Show

Jonathan Denwood a

Beautiful IDX real estate websites. Identify lead behavior and automate follow-up and ad management tools.


Robert Newman



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Posted in Podcast | Comments Off on #430 – The Mail-Right Show:ChatGPT & AI Mastermind For Real Estate Agents

#429 – The Mail-Right Show: Best Real Estate Website From ThemeForest And Other Online Recourses For 2024

Tuesday, May 7th, 2024

#429 - The Mail-Right Show: Best Real Estate Website From ThemeForest And Other Online Recourses For 2024

Best Real Estate Website From ThemeForest And Other Online Recourses For 2024

Discover the top Real Estate Website themes on ThemeForest for 2024. Elevate your online presence with these stunning designs today.

Explore the top Real Estate Website ThemeForest themes for 2024 in our latest video. From sleek and modern designs to user-friendly features, these themes are perfect for showcasing properties in the digital age. Stay ahead of the competition by choosing the best theme for your real estate website. Watch our video now to discover the future of online property marketing!

#1 – Houzez – Real Estate WordPress Theme

Prices $69

Has 35.000 Active Customers

#2 – Residence Real Estate WordPress Theme

Prices $69

Has HubSpot Integration

#3 – Quarter

Price $39

#3 – Realestate7


Prices $129 | IDX plugin $79

#4 – HomePress

Prices $59

Integrates With IDX Broker and iHomefinder

#5 – Estatik

——- ——— ——— ——–

Episode Full Show Notes

[00:00:03.960] – Robert Newman

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mail-Right podcast. Today is episode number 429, and we’re continuing with a somewhat similar topic to our last one: do-it-yourself website builders. Now, we’re moving on to a review of Theme Forest and other online real estate do-it-yourself theme builders. We’re basically going to continue our conversation and review some of the places and themes from which you can get a do-it-yourself product. Do you agree with my description there, John?


[00:00:42.920] – Jonathan Denwood

I do. I do a little bit.


[00:00:44.730] – Robert Newman

Today. We’re going to talk about some of the best real estate themes from Themeforce. This is a subject we’ve never covered before. It’s highly specific for some DIY-wise. We’re covering this subject because if there was ever going to be a time, now I was going to be it. Many people will be looking to cut budgets and bunker up while still trying to maintain the idea of owning their own website. This is your path to do that. John is one of the best guys to discuss this, so I’m incredibly excited to get into it. Before we do, though, John, why don’t you go ahead and introduce your sofa to the handful of people who might be tuning in for the first time?


[00:01:25.710] – Jonathan Denwood

I hope they are. I hope we’re getting some more listeners. I think we’re doing reasonably well. I’m the joint founder of Mel-right. Com. We build websites on WordPress, provide themes, and then offer semi-customized and full-customized options, plus a platform, a CRM, and a load of other digital tools that can help you get leads. Back over to you, Robert.


[00:01:50.180] – Robert Newman

My name is Robert Newman. I am the founder of Inbound R-E-M, which is another real estate marketing company. We are actually a real estate marketing We focus on content and SEO, but we consider ourselves a marketing company first and a real estate website development company second. That makes us very different from most of the other companies out there. Anyway, if you want to learn more about us or what we do, just go to inboundrem. Com. It’s all over my cap. It’s in the background. You can see plenty of places. You can learn so many good things on our website. Without any further ado, let’s get drilled right into this really meaty, exciting topic for those who are looking to do it yourself. Number one on our list to talk about is a WordPress theme that I believe, if I say this correctly, is pronounced Houses, but with Zs, H-O-U-Z-E-Z. Is that right?


[00:02:42.790] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I was hoping you could have put me correctly, but that was my assumption as well.


[00:02:48.720] – Robert Newman

Okay, so for those of you who think we’re going to do something here, John, if John gives me the authority as my co-host, I would like to share the screen and look at this theme. Are you okay with that?


[00:03:01.830] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, sure.


[00:03:02.880] – Robert Newman

Okay, so I’m going to share my screen. I’m going to go over here. Go here. There we go. All right. $69. Talk to us about this theme. It’s got 2,200 reviews, mostly five-star. Why don’t you let us know what your impressions are, John?


[00:03:23.280] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, it looks pretty good. I think what I’m going to say applies to most of the solutions. There are a couple here, one of which is not Theme Forest, that came to my radar. It’s supposed to have about 35 active customers, 35,000 active that bought this theme, and it’s $69. But I think you got to understand what you’re getting involved with. And as long as you know what you’re getting involved with, you’re going to be happy. If you don’t, I think you could be a little bit unhappy. And what do I mean by that? What they’re offering for $69 is quite unique because they’ve got a lot of different looks, and it’s a good value proposition. And they use Elementor as the page builder. That gives you a certain degree of flexibility. But the other factor is you’re going to need good hosting. You need to go with something like WPEngine, Kinster, LiquidWeb, Converseio, or something like that. Don’t go GoDaddy or Bluehost, because this is a theme, and it needs really good resources. And as long as you have those resources, you’re going to be reasonably happy. The other thing I would say that applies to all these is You’re getting fantastic value.


[00:05:18.360] – Jonathan Denwood

The tricky bit is, yes, you can customize them to a certain degree, but don’t go over the board with it because that leads down a warren, and you’re going to get… Don’t utilize the layouts they’re providing and do a bit of custom, changing images and moving things from the left to the right. But if you decide you’re going to start… It does provide some IDX integration with IDX plugins, but this is where things people make the mistake. If you’re going to… I don’t remember with this particular theme, which if they offer a list of IDX plugins that they reckon they work with, some of the others they do. But don’t go over bored with the IDX integration. This is a good starter idea, or if you don’t want a load of customization, you’re satisfied, you’re going to do some minor modification. And as long as you accept that and don’t spend ages trying to knock stuff around, you’re going to be happy, and I think it provides pretty good value. What do you reckon, Robert?


[00:06:47.030] – Robert Newman

I mean, I agree. I do agree. We looked at an example, everybody saw me clicking around. Ben Stevens opted to use this theme, and then what he did is he had a design company, Unplug the Theme. Okay, and why would you do that? Because there are a lot of things that happen in website design that people don’t understand happen intuitively. A great example is that one of the places the web development team got in there and probably customized it is this little thing right here, this thing in the middle. The digital market of the year, the client testimonials. It’s not necessarily true that this theme is going to have this as the layout. As a matter of fact, they say on the store websites designed by our customers. So in those cases, you’re talking about, so here’s one in the US that’s relevant to us, rianmelcher. Com. And so what he did is he figured out how to take the house’s theme and plug in a video into the background, probably using Elementor, as you already said, to do this. And then he created this whole entire site. And in terms of $69 for a theme, hell, yeah, I like that.


[00:08:08.750] – Robert Newman

That’s a great price. If you can unpack it and design it, if you have any skills whatsoever working with WordPress, then it’s a hell of a price. But if you don’t have skills, you’re going to spend that money on assistance to unpack this thing and customize most of these things.


[00:08:31.270] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, you’re so right. It’s difficult to explain, folks. If you can… It’s known when to stop. Accepting that this is a bridgehead, this is a way to get a reasonably good website up and running for $69 plus your hosting. And if you want IDX, we’ll start doing a lot of customization. I think you want to hire somebody like Robert or come to MailRight or whoever you choose and find out the options. I wouldn’t recommend that if you have budget, that you don’t find what the options are rather than going down, which can turn out, I’m not saying about this particular theme, but can, with these theme forest themes, can turn into a little bit of a nightmare if you push it too far? Based on my experience, Robert.


[00:09:37.360] – Robert Newman

I used to build out other people’s themes, and we created our own. I went through this whole experience where you think when you’re looking at this, you look at the pages that are being designed and being offered a listing metacomposer, a property details page, a half map page, and you think to yourself, this should do the trick. Then you discover there are 10, 15, 20 other pages that are maybe small pages, contact forms I can go on, little pages you don’t realize you need. And by the time you get into those pages, you start to understand no matter what, you probably have to hire assistance unless you are a reasonably skilled online person, which I thought I was and I couldn’t do it. Full stop. I thought I was reasonably skilled and discovered that I could not get what I wanted to do with these themes. I ended up having to hire people to roll out of… Or let me rephrase, I could do it, but what took me 16 hours would take somebody else 30 minutes.


[00:10:37.810] – Jonathan Denwood

True story. I think also with page pages coming online, the situation has got a little bit But also the sophistication of what… What happens, folks, is you choose one of these, and then you see about three or four other people’s websites, somebody in your office or somebody in your region. And it’s a semi-complete different look, and you try and modify this look to match the look of something else, or there’s one particular theme in look in this theme because they provide a load of different layouts. And you get one that looks semi, but not really. And then you go down the warren where you’re trying to customize it all to look like this one that you really like. I can tell you, folks, don’t do it. You’re going to waste a ton of time. Listen to Uncle Jonathan, don’t save yourself a load of money in that, bro. Don’t go there. You’re better off hiring somebody or hiring an agency. I don’t care who it is if you want that, rather than thinking you’re going to customize something like this.


[00:12:01.720] – Robert Newman

Another tricky thing that is still tricky because it’s tough to cover the subject adequately in a short little thing, but the House mentions briefly, Oh, hey, the best way to set these websites up is to integrate MLS data. Here’s the list of MLSs that we support, from what I can see here, about 50. There’s 800 MLSs in the US. Eight hundred. Fifty are covered, 5%. Not all the big ones are covered here. I can tell you already they’re missing one of the main MLSs out of Houston. So you got to, which is massive. That is a gigantic, Oh, it’s not included.


[00:12:39.570] – Jonathan Denwood

I noticed that. They don’t really talk about using IDX plugin solution which some of the others, they’re doing direct, and you’re totally right. Don’t do that, folks. Don’t go there because… Yeah, except what it is and accept it’s good value, and it’s a good start, but control your enthusiasm. Shall we go on to the next one, Rob?


[00:13:07.690] – Robert Newman

Sure. Number two, residents, real estate, WordPress theme. So, John, talk to us a little bit about this one, please. I’m going to put it up on the screen for those of you who are following along.


[00:13:22.470] – Jonathan Denwood

I think it’s very similar to Hosez, whatever it’s called. One thing, it’s around the same price. I think it’s one of them. I don’t know how many downloads they’ve got, but I think it’s one of the more popular ones. So it’s probably in the tens of thousands. I quite like the look of some of their layouts. The interesting thing is a bit… When you read the… I did have a read of their documentation and that, they hammer away… This is They’re hammer away. They’re quite proud of their integration with HubSpot, Robert. I don’t quite get that because if you’re… But the truth is, folks, is that there’s a lot… This is another bit of advice here, folks. You’re better off going to Melright or going to Robert or going to some agency that specializes in real estate rather than going to a regional digital marketing agency. Because I know for a fact, because I used to work with the second largest digital agency as their web developer in Northern Nevada. And they know about online marketing, but they don’t know anything about the real estate industry. And if they get a real estate client, they actually buy one of the these themes, and then they get somebody like me to customize it, and they have a front person that works with the client, and you have to talk to your colleague, and you hammer away at it.


[00:15:15.040] – Jonathan Denwood

But they actually utilize these themes, and I worked on a couple of these projects, and you hate it as a developer working with one of these themes and hammering So be aware of that because you can be charged a lot of money and you don’t really know what you’re getting. And so I think the HubSpot thing is geared at a regional agency that has a HubSpot account that’s actually running campaigns, and they’re not this up for somebody that’s approached them. Is that make sense, Rob?


[00:16:03.640] – Robert Newman

Relatively so. For those people listening to the show, HubSpot is another CRM option. It integrates incredibly well with WordPress, which is why this theme would hammer away at the idea that it integrates. It’s not very useful for most real estate agents because in general, unless you’re using your CRM to do emails and things like that, it’s probably killing a mouse with a bazooka. For a very small set of tech-forward real estate agents, a WordPress-themed combo with HubSpot, which is exactly what I use, is going to be incredibly efficient. It’s just a big learning curve for most people, not all, just most. If you’re thinking, Oh, I know tech, I know CRMs, then this might be exciting for you. In terms of what John said as a general God, do I agree? The last thing in the world that I wanted to do, John, was build my own theme for Inbound R. E. M. That’s the truth. I didn’t want to do it at all. It was so much work and so much money. We spent over two years building and revising our theme, and I wouldn’t even be able to tell you how much money I spent keeping my developer employed full-time, basically working at The problem was that every single time we came across something that we felt like we needed to do to do well for SEO, we discovered that we had to custom develop it into the theme, like threading IDX broker search results into the theme so that we can get some pages read with property data on it automatically so our clients didn’t have to automatically upload properties.


[00:17:53.310] – Robert Newman

It’s probably one of the first biggest things that we did. None of these themes allow for that, and none of the themes allow you to break into the code the right way to integrate that idea into the theme. And that’s just the biggest thing. But we’re talking all sorts of things, like how does mobile work, how does responsive work? The answer is for a novice, for a basic person, they work just fine. But if you were ever an advanced person spending, let’s say you did call me to hire me, now that’s a $20,000 decision. Do you put 20 grand on top of a theme like this? Not in my opinion.


[00:18:30.920] – Jonathan Denwood

That’s the whole point I was making. If you go to a regional professional marketing agency and you’re prepared to spend 20,000, there’s a lot of them that are going to be utilizing these themes. I know for a fact.


[00:18:47.750] – Robert Newman

And that would be problematic to everybody that’s listening to the show. You’d be much better served if you find yourself in that position to call John or I, or if you happen to know anybody, other experts that specialize in real estate, by all means call them. But John and I are probably the best bet, especially if you’re listening to our show.


[00:19:07.420] – Jonathan Denwood

Do you think I’m right in saying that? Because I’m basing it. It was about eight, nine years ago when I gave up working for your job. I think so, yeah. I think probably the same thing still applies now, don’t you think so?


[00:19:21.340] – Robert Newman

Yeah, because to customize and develop a theme from scratch, if you call an agency, you’re talking like 20 grand. Other than that, we’re all regurgitating either off our own our own themes or somebody else’s, for sure, you know how much time and energy it takes to develop one of these things. It’s a pain in the ass. Not only do you have to design the pages, everybody, you have to design the code, the hooks that are going to integrate into real estate-specific functionality. Like MLS and IDX data is the easiest to point at, but there’s lots of other ancillary features that you might look at, such as calendars, weather widgets, all sorts of other things that you might try to integrate. Do you want to build a property module? That’s a big one. The list goes on and on. But anyway,.


[00:20:05.290] – Jonathan Denwood

You just got to know what you’re getting involved for $69 like the other one. It provides a lot. But just understand what you should use, utilize it for, in my opinion. Yeah, on to the next one. Shall we go?


[00:20:19.180] – Robert Newman

Well, before we go, before we do that, we’re going to go to break really quick. Ladies and gentlemen, listen, do us a favor, bookmark this, share this, go to the MailRight YouTube channel, wherever you find this content. Give it a thumbs up, a thumbs, a like, if it’s on a Facebook page, same there. Have any questions for us? Please drop those questions on the Facebook page. Or you can… John, if somebody wanted to email you, how would they do that? You can email John directly.


[00:20:46.460] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, sure. Go to jonathan, Jonathan@mail-right. Com.


[00:20:57.860] – Robert Newman

Honestly, everybody listening to the show If you have very specific single install questions about WordPress or WordPress questions in general, I, honest to God, feel like John is the better resource between the two of us. If you have SEO questions, you’d want to reach out to robert@inboundrem. Com. I feel like I’m one of the better resources that you could talk to about that stuff. If you have a blend of questions, pick either one of us. Probably can each do as equally of a good job getting into the other person’s expertise. We’re going to go to break. We’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the MailRight Show. It’s episode number 429. We’re doing a deep dive on a couple of places that you can buy, do it yourself, The best places, best real estate websites from Theme Forest and other online recourses is the exact title of this show. We’re going to dive right into it with number three on the list, which is And I’m going to pull it up for those of you who are viewing this. I’m pulling it up on a screen share. So, John, go ahead, jump in.


[00:22:08.370] – Robert Newman

Quarter. Yeah, I got quarter..


[00:22:11.550] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, it’s not that many, but it’s $39. But like you say, 83 sales on Theme Forest isn’t a lot. It looks okay to me, but I think it depends if the looks they’re providing, because like I said in the first half, it’s all right If you’ve played around with WordPress, you think you can get one of these themes set up. They do provide a lot of these themes with one click, and it will put dummy content up. They have elements that make getting the website up and running a lot easier. And you do have to change the copy that they provide. You’d be highly recommended to do it. A lot of it’s Latin. And then they also suck in other free plugins, get the whole thing set up for you. And if you’ve played around with WordPress before, I think you can stand a good chance of getting up and running. If you’re a complete beginner, I think it’s going to be a learning curve. And if you think you’re not interested in any of this, I wouldn’t bother because you’re going to get frustrated. But it does depend who you are. But like I say, like you pointed out, it’s not bad, but they haven’t got many downloads, have they?


[00:23:35.560] – Robert Newman

No, they haven’t got many downloads. I personally would look at that with… I would examine my options very carefully is how I would treat that. We’ve got quite a few. As usual, we salted through some comments earlier in the show. For those of you just joining us after the break, you really need to listen to what we said about number one because we really had a lot of comments that are going to absolutely we apply to every single one of these themes on the list. But let’s jump into the next one. It’s Real Estate 7. I’m pulling it up on the screen for those of you who are following along. John, why don’t you share your thoughts about this one?


[00:24:13.620] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I didn’t get this from It was a dream for us, but I got it off a few websites, and I watched some videos that have been done in the past six, seven months about recommendations. And one of the recommendations was this. And it’s a mixed bag, really, because it’s a bit like… They’re often a bit like Mel Wright, but Mel, I pitched. It took me a couple of years to work out what I was doing with Mel Wright, probably a little bit longer than that. But it’s a WordPress competitor to real geeks, really, with a bit of Agent Fire thrown into the mixture as well. So that’s our two main competitors, because we can do nice-looking websites, and we offer a lot of the functionality that real geeks provides. This is a competitor to Melright, but I don’t think it offers all the stuff that we offer, because they offer their own IDX plugin for $79, and they offer to… You can buy a one-time license for $59, but then they offer a subscription which is $129 per year. I’m not too sure what you’re getting for that. I think you’re getting more designs where If you just buy the ’59, you just get the designs that they’re offering that particular purchase.


[00:25:51.760] – Jonathan Denwood

That ‘129 doesn’t include the hosting. But then they’re offering this ‘IDX’ plugin for ’79. I would be cautious about that because I think building an effective IDX plugin is a bloody lot of work. I’ve never used it, so I can’t comment on it. What do you reckon, Robert?


[00:26:19.170] – Robert Newman

I recommend… Like with most of these services and themes, here’s what I really think. Most of you, almost 90, 78% of you will need some help to make money, an ROI off any of this. If all you’re trying to do is teach… Here’s who I think has just got the sweet spot. Let’s say you’re a younger tech-savvy agent who has some money to spend, but not much, and you’re trying to save money, but also prepare for a bright future in your real estate career. Getting to know WordPress and building a WordPress site and investing this money in this time, strikes me as an incredibly savvy investment because most likely you’re going to find either a partner like me or John, or you’re going to figure out how to do it yourself. But one way or the other, you’re going to make a very good decision to learn WordPress. This is as good of a start as any. I do not like the CRM extension’s bottle for $399 a year. I’d be hesitant to spend the CTIDX Pro Plus for $79 a month. The real estate seven WordPress theme at $129 a year with the reviews I briefly read It seems to be a good deal.


[00:27:32.160] – Robert Newman

I don’t like all of the add-ons unless, of course, you’re really knowledgeable about what you want and what you need and you think this is going to suit you. I doubt it’s going to, is my opinion. But CMS messaging, you can get it from $1.99 yearly. All of this stuff that they’re adding in or throwing in so casually, you can just easily integrate with HubSpot for $50 a month, and they’re charging you per year. So right off the top, without even looking too deep into this, I think that if you’re just sticking with the theme, you’re going to be well-served. They’re also saying it’s SEO friendly. That is a particular pet peeve of mine, John, is that people who, because it’s a keyword, because they know people are asking, they’re like, It’s SEO friendly. What the fuck does that mean?


[00:28:26.600] – Jonathan Denwood

I don’t even know. It’s a political statement. It means Everything means nothing.


[00:28:31.800] – Robert Newman

It looks to mean with what they’ve got over here, like, Oh, we’re going to show listings on the site, which means that you might get a small boost in your local. And that is true. Negligible. Every single person that has a real estate website If the listing is on, it is going to get the same boost. So is it really going to do you much of anything? No. But hey, it’s SEO friendly. I don’t know. Don’t like that language, but whatever. They’ve got to put it. I think they’re required. Let’s move on, though, because we’ve got a few more to cover and a little bit of time to do it. Home press number 4 is on your list, and I’m once again pulling it up and sharing it.


[00:29:09.480] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, very similar price to the first two, 59 I don’t know how many downloads, because I think this is a theme for us as well. So I don’t know how many download. But they do talk about IDX plugins, and the two they talk about-3,541. Yeah, it’s not bad, is it? No. It’s not 30,000, but it’s respectable, isn’t it? They do talk in their blurb about integrating with IDX plugins, IDX Broker and i Home Finder. They’re the two that we only work with. We prefer IDX Broker, but I have got a couple of sites where they wanted to keep utilizing what they had, which was i Home Finder, and it’s okay. And they do talk about it, where the first two, they don’t actually talk about it. And then you got, or the first three, and then you got this Reer State 7, where they’re providing their own IDX plugin, which I know nothing about. And the layouts, they don’t look bad, do they? I don’t think.


[00:30:23.330] – Robert Newman

No, they look okay. Again, I think that when you find something that looks good to your eye in any of these designs, you’re probably going to be doing well.


[00:30:35.330] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, the other problem, unless you’re this young type agent, people look at these setups, which you can automatically input, and you’ve got no decent photography of yourself. You’ve got no decent photography of your team. Your logo is crap, and you’re not prepared to spend even $500 or you can’t on a decent logo. I think that’s improved because there are AI and other low-cost logo producers that can produce a reasonable logo. It won’t have the eye and the consultancy of somebody that actually knows what they’re doing. But you get a lot of agents that will… Or you’re just better off just using text if you can’t, but just don’t get your nephew that reckons he can knock something up for you because it will look awful. And they also haven’t got the photography, or the photography is really crap because you know and I know to hire… You can hire a photography student or somebody that’s on a course. There’s ways of reducing the cost. But if you’re in If the stuff you’re importing to customize it is rubbish, the outcome will not match these examples that they’re giving you because… And you can, but there’s ways around it.


[00:32:15.880] – Jonathan Denwood

You can use the livestock photography as well. There’s AI-generated photography. There’s a lot more choices. But that’s the other problem. A lot of people, they Because they haven’t got the budget or they just don’t understand, when they start adapting it, putting their own photos up, blah, blah, blah, it ends up looking messy, if you know what I mean, Robert.


[00:32:46.140] – Robert Newman

Yeah. Here’s some thoughts. So far, guys, the place I’ve been most impressed by was the real estate seven theme that pulled us off the site because the reviews were a little bit easier to access. They We said a lot more important things in the brief time I read them, such as immediate response. When you are using one of these themes, I think it’s important to point out that you’re almost always going to have questions. Either one, there’s a lot of tutorials and documentation that’s provided. Envato, which is too big to be super custom, may or may not have the proper support for your specific theme available, videos. Getting a hold of somebody specifically might be a little tough. Making Real Estate 7, so far, my favorite of all these things, not because I have an opinion about the theme, the design, the pictures, or any of the things you’ve really talked about, but because there were a couple of reviews where people said that they got a hold of Richard, the guy who designed the theme, in minutes, and there was more than one review that said that. That could be important, but it just depends on you.


[00:33:52.840] – Robert Newman

It’s to the images and everything, of course, you’re correct. This is your Baylywick. Do I have a lot of opinions? It’s too custom. I would go client to client, make recommendations about images. Images can be a major SEO signal. What John says, really, I cannot emphasize enough in terms of marketing a good picture, just like everybody, I think, instinctively knows, a good picture can be worth a lot of money to your business. On your website, on your properties page, on your listing page, if you take the time or hire a good partner, it could really pay you back. There is some very small work that you need to do to make that investment payoff, though, that falls directly into the SEO bucket. For that, go to my website and look up optimizing images, and you’ll get all the answers for free. All right, number 5 on the list, esthetic. I love that name, Static. You once again pulled this off a separate website, correct?


[00:34:52.920] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, it was one of the recommendations of the research I did. Do you want to get it out? Do you want to get it out?


[00:34:59.620] – Robert Newman

I dropped in. It dropped out.


[00:35:08.680] – Jonathan Denwood

Oh, dear. Well, I quite like this one as well. Hold on.


[00:35:16.080] – Robert Newman

Let me delete some of these options so I can find it easier in terms of tabs.


[00:35:23.520] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I quite liked it. I’m getting it up on my end. Yeah, a lot of layouts. The Layouts looked a little bit dated, a little bit, but they got maps and other things. It’s just that the themes looked They’re… Yeah, it just looked a little bit dated look. A lot of white space, but I think it’s It’s designed for somebody that can customize it a bit, so they left it a bit bare-bone, if you know what I mean. I think they got reviews, It’s like- Another one being built with Elementor, which I find to be a positive.


[00:36:20.970] – Robert Newman

We use Elementor. It’s not that it’s the only tool out there, but it is a good one. There are others, Bricks, others that I’ve read about, but I like I’m a mentor, personally.


[00:36:32.640] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, there’s nothing… I’m not one of these Elementor heaters. I’m not at all. They actually got a free site, a small site, and then they got a pro for 89, and then they got 649. I think that’s 12 months, one site. I don’t know exactly what you’re getting for that.


[00:36:54.750] – Robert Newman

Mostly it’s a RETs integration.


[00:36:57.370] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah. They got this those rats. You want to explain quickly what that is?


[00:37:04.810] – Robert Newman

Well, it’s an older standard that is… All right. It used to mean that there was a It was the type of real estate website data that was being fed out into the world at large, that if you could read that data, it was absolutely going to give you the ability to have more of your property data be recognized as original and on the page of the website. Essentially. So Rets feed was originally, but it’s not being supported universally anymore.


[00:37:37.890] – Jonathan Denwood

And then you got this other one, Rets go Web API, which is the more up to date version, isn’t it?


[00:37:47.090] – Robert Newman

Yes, it is. I’ll read you what it says on the page. The Reso Web API is the modern way to transport data in the real estate industry. Transport data, okay? That That just means that we want to give data to the website. This reso oftentimes goes to the MLS. To do it directly to your site means that you would be using the same data transfer technology that your actual MLS is using. There are rare cases in which this makes sense. I don’t think that building it out with a theme provider would ever make sense, but they could easily sell it to you in such a way that it’s going to sound like it makes sense. Because you could take IDX data and make a stab at making that data look proprietary to your website. Now, that’s actually trickier than it sounds in my experience, John.

[00:38:39.070] – Jonathan Denwood

Just a bit.

[00:38:41.590] – Robert Newman


[00:38:42.210] – Jonathan Denwood

That was a little bit of English sarcasm.

[00:38:46.300] – Robert Newman

It’s easy to sell and incredibly difficult to deliver. I love what the website looks.

[00:38:56.860] – Jonathan Denwood

Do not go down that route by buying this, Phoebe. If you’re going Don’t go down that route; hire Robert or come to Melright or go somewhere else that knows what they’re talking about. Do not go down that route. Accept these solutions for what… There is a sweet point for a particular type of person, which can give you a lot of value. If you’re not the person that Robert described, or you expect too much, there’s a difference in you taking a theme and just customizing it a little bit. There’s a difference between that and semi-full customization. What does that mean? That is taking a framework or a theme and then an agreed number of pages or elements you customize, that’s semi-customised. Then there’s full customization: you consult the client, and it’s a white screen, and you give them whatever they want. That’s fully customized. Just understand these are good value options if you’re the right person at the right moment, because it’s best to utilize one of these rather than what the brokerage will provide. But understand the limits. If you know the limits, you will be a happy bunny.

[00:40:29.410] – Jonathan Denwood

If you don’t, this could turn into a very frustrating experience.

[00:40:35.790] – Robert Newman

We’re running out of time. Well, we’re 39 minutes into this. We have one more name on the list. I would typically add some stuff I’m not going to anymore. Let’s go to number 6, WP Rinsals, the last one on your list, John, and I’m going to pull it up.

[00:40:52.430] – Jonathan Denwood

Oh, it’s not there.

[00:40:54.080] – Robert Newman

Yeah, okay.

[00:40:57.010] – Jonathan Denwood

We won’t talk about that one because I made a mistake, maybe. So shall we wrap? I think we’ve gone on in 40 minutes. Can you wrap it up, Robert?

[00:41:09.170] – Robert Newman

Yeah, absolutely. So ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I understand, and I think that John does as well. Doing it yourself is somewhat complicated. It inherently involves learning. You’ll have to look at some people, probably not John or me; neither of us produces long-form, tutorial-based content about unpacking and creating a real estate website. You may need to watch a few of those videos to make this a doable thing for you to even do it. The only advantage to all of this is you really could, with a little bit of learning and time, unpack a reasonably high-quality fee for under $100 and get a website live on WordPress. org, and then maybe $8 a month. Theoretically, you could do the whole thing for $250. It would probably be like 100 or $200 of your time, but you could do it for a very low outlay of capital. That’s who this is aimed at. Anything further, I strongly recommend that you probably reach out to John first, me second, If you have a sub interest in SEO, maybe me second. Just the idea of doing this in general. John’s the guy who’s been doing this for years.

[00:42:24.060] – Robert Newman

Like he already said, he’s been contracted by local agencies. He’s got another WordPress-based company that he does for learning management systems, so he has a vast degree of experience and years of experience now in real estate specifically. With that wind-up, John, if somebody did want to reach out to you, how would you like them to do it?

[00:42:44.200] – Jonathan Denwood

I’ll just go to the website, and you can book a chat with me there. Back to you, Rob.

[00:42:55.030] – Robert Newman

I’ve built about 200 high-end real estate SEO projects, so a real estate website, and then we focus on SEO. They’re obviously not doing it yourself. There’s a reasonable price tag attached to it. You can find out all that information on if you’re curious. If you want to, you can email me directly at robert@inboundrem. com. Thank you so much for tuning into the show. We appreciate it. There’s nothing more important than trying to be helpful. If we can do that better, you can email me or call John or either email John. Thank you so much for tuning in. John, take us offline.


038: Good Quality Photography With Special Guest Greg McDaniels
038: Good Quality Photography & Video is Important! 1

We discuss with our special guest Greg McDaniels the importance of quality photography connected to being a successful real estate Read more

039: Why Agents Need To Blog Regularly
038: Good Quality Photography & Video is Important! 1

Agents need to do more than blogging to get results in 2016. We discuss this during this show with our two Read more

040: We Have Special Guest Greg McDaniels
038: Good Quality Photography & Video is Important! 1

Greg McDaniel literally began his career at his father’s knee. It would not be an exaggeration to say he has Read more

041: Personal Agent Photography With Preston Zeller
038: Good Quality Photography & Video is Important! 1

Personal agent photography is really important but usually semi-forgotten. We have a great guest "Preston Zeller" on the show who recently Read more

Posted in Podcast | Comments Off on #429 – The Mail-Right Show: Best Real Estate Website From ThemeForest And Other Online Recourses For 2024

#428 – The Mail-Right Show: Best WordPress DIY Builders to Build Your Real Estate Website On In 2024

Saturday, April 27th, 2024

428 - The Mail-Right Show: Best WordPress DIY Builders to Build Your Real Estate Website On In 2024

Best WordPress DIY Builders to Build Your Real Estate Website In 2024

Discover the top WordPress page builders for real estate websites in 2024. Transform your online property showcase with ease and style.

Are you ready to take your real estate website to the next level in 2024? Uncover the most powerful WordPress page builders tailored to showcase properties effectively. Learn how these cutting-edge tools can enhance user experience and boost engagement on your site. Dive into our video now and start building a standout online platform for your listings!

Episode Full Show Notes


[00:00:15.690] – Robert Newman

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mail-Right podcast. Today’s episode is number 428. Is that right, John? Yeah. Okay. Today, we will discuss the best WordPress do-it-yourself builders to build your real estate website in 2024. It’s a fantastic subject. It plays so profoundly to my partner’s expertise. I’m incredibly excited about what I hope all of you will be excited about because I know I will learn from John today, and I’m super duper into it because this is not my expertise. I have some knowledge, but nothing compared to John. So, John, without any further ado, for those people who may not know your qualifications on this subject or who you are in general, why don’t you go ahead and do an introduction?


[00:01:13.580] – Jonathan Denwood

Thanks, Rob. I’m the joint founder of, and we build fantastic WordPress websites. We also provide a CRM landing page text and email lead generative platform all in one bundle. Over to you, Robert.


[00:01:41.770] – Robert Newman

All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to We’re going to look at John’s notes. For those of you who are new to the show, John does the production on the show, and I act as an industry influencer host. Now, I’ve been doing this for 16 years. John is slightly newer into it. But John has been a WordPress entrepreneur for a long time and has built quite a few websites. He has another company that creates learning management systems on WordPress. He has a podcast that is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly popular called WP-Tonic, which is about WordPress, essentially. Is that correct?


[00:02:23.800] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, it’s aimed at the WordPress professional and SaaS bootstrapper.


[00:02:29.610] – Robert Newman

Okay, so definitely. And John’s guest list, some of the people that John has had the chance to meet and talk about on this other show, have literally made my mouth drool. It’s just a male writer, specifically for real estate professionals, whereas WP-Tonic has slightly brought our audience. So having said all that, just getting into this, I’ve never even heard of the first person that you put on here. And you also took the time to put in the notes, Gutenberg-based page builders. So before we get into that, will you please do us all a favor, myself included, and explain what Gutenberg is?


[00:03:06.880] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah. About six years ago, six to seven years ago, WordPress ran it. Matt Manweg, who’s the joint founder, has a commercial company called Automatic. They have managed to get quite a large investment. I think it’s around $900 million into Automatic. But WordPress is a strange hybrid where it’s open source, but it also has a lot of reliance on this company called Automatic. And Matt Manweg said that WordPress has to move forward. They developed this internal page website builder, which is called Gutenberg, which has been an ongoing project. Based on this core technology called Gutenberg and blocks, blocks are like sections that you can drag off. Based on this technology, third-party plugins build on this Gutenberg technology. And why you should care is that it’s much quicker than many of the other solutions out there. And I think Rob would confirm this, that one of the major… It’s only one thing, but it’s a significant thing that Google looks for is a very speedy website. So if you’re looking to build something that’s your real estate website, and you’re looking for something that is based on core WordPress, and that’s also speedy, looking at a Gutenberg-based solution probably might be a good idea.


[00:05:35.450] – Robert Newman

Yeah, I agree. So, ladies and gentlemen, I also build on WordPress and create a real estate website like John, but I use WordPress as my base platform. I’m just not as familiar with the… I have a developer team that I work with, and I focus on SEO. So yes, speed is important, things like that. Page builders are essential, but here’s how I view for their importance. It’s ease of use. It’s like the CRM conversation. Websites and CRMs are only as good as the people and their ability to use them. I use page builder plugins that build on top of Gutenberg. I know that sounds confusing, But it just makes everything easier. The easier that something gets, but unfortunately, some of these paid builders, like the one I use, Elementor, slow the site down a little bit. So you lose some of the speed but gain ease of use. One way or the other, though, Gutenberg is of many, many different decisions that Matt has made. Gutenberg is another good one. Execution with so many things in tech is another question, in my opinion. It’s not that he isn’t doing the right thing, it’s just how he’s executing it.


[00:06:51.280] – Robert Newman

It’s a little bit shaky, in my opinion, just my opinion. John’s much… Again, I got to keep in mind, this is definitely somebody else’s expertise. Let’s talk about the number one. Again, for those guys who are listening to the show, we’re doing a show that we’ve never done before. If you want to go ahead and build your own website, these are some On WordPress, these are some people that you might consider. Number one on the list, put there by John, is CadenceWP. I don’t even know who these guys are. John, why don’t you tell us a little bit about them?


[00:07:26.700] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, Cadence. It’s owned by a hosting company, actually. Cadence started off with a very talented developer called Ben, and he lives in Montana with his family. And he built a very large theme-based business. And he got into Gutenberg early and built this framework, this theme, based on Gutenberg technology, and he built a really fantastic business. Then he was offered to come to Liquid Web. Liquid Web is quite a large hosting company. It’s actually probably larger than WP engine, actually. He sold his business, but he’s the head of Cadence, and he’s the head developer. I know Ben, he’s very talented, and he’s built on Gutenberg technology, and it’s a FAB framework. One of the attractive things is it comes with a very large library of predesign templates. I think they do have one or two that are designed for real estate agents. I would have to confirm that. In the near future, we’re going to be offering about six to a dozen themes that have been specifically designed for real estate. Sure. That is based on Cadence technology at Mailright. We’re in the process of developing them and testing them. But you probably could take one of their general themes and and adapt it.


[00:09:32.620] – Jonathan Denwood

And as long as you weren’t attempting to do a lot of customization with the IDX feed, as Robert utilizes and recommends, so does Melright, we recommend IDX Broker. And as long as you’re not attempting to customize what IDX Broker produces, or you’re going to have to hire somebody to help you do that. I think you could produce a really nice website, even if you weren’t utilizing a directly designed starter theme, which is the wording that Cadence utilizes. And it’s going to be very unreasonably good quality hosting. It’s going to be super quick. So I like it. Beautiful.


[00:10:29.680] – Robert Newman

I know nothing about them, so I’m not going to say anything. I love all the history. I’m a big fan of it. So thanks for sharing what the background of Cadence is. I will say this just to add a thought. For those of you who are on the show or listening to the show, in my experience only, and once again, John, you can jump in if you have a definitively different opinion, but I think that Even though there is a tremendous amount of advertising that says that just anybody can build a DIY WordPress site. I’ve built plenty myself. I’ve never found that just anybody can do it. I’ve usually found it to be a big learning process, no matter how simple it was to unpack the theme, no matter… I never found it to be… It’s not a novice’s game. There should be some in my opinion, because without it, there’s all sorts of questions that come up. You got to upload it to a hosting place. I built a site on WordPress, the hosting environment, wordpress. Org. That was a whole learning experience for me, John. I didn’t know that you need to do any of that.


[00:11:47.630] – Robert Newman

When you unpack the theme and then discover that there’s all the stuff inside the theme, and then you get introduced to the idea of plugins. I’m like, What’s a plugin? What’s a bloody slug? WordPress has created all this language around their specific website build that’s actually not standard. They’re making it industry standard, but if you don’t know it already, I found it to be a huge amount of learning, even to do the Unplug It, Do It Yourself product. Do you disagree or do you agree, or are you just so deep in the trenches, you just have no idea what I’m talking about?


[00:12:24.210] – Jonathan Denwood

Oh, everything you’ve stated. I think utilizing a modern framework like Cadence or one or two of the others we’re going to talk about. And there’s non-Gutenberg WordPress-based. You’ve mentioned one, Elemator. I’m going to discuss that. I actually think Apart from the hosting side, I think utilizing something like Cadence or one of the other solutions isn’t really that much more difficult than utilizing Wix or Squarespace, who are SaaS competitors, software as a service competitors. Really? But no, I don’t honestly think utilizing one of these is a lot more difficult apart from setting it up and getting the hosting side of it. Okay. Besides setting it up. Pardon?


[00:13:18.340] – Robert Newman

I said besides setting it up. That’s a huge disclaimer.


[00:13:22.340] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, a lot the hosting, the specialized WordPress hosting, have a one-click install, and then you just upload the theme. I can tell you for a fact that certain elements of Squarespace, certain elements of Wix aren’t as easy as their advertising makes out, because we regularly get people that utilize these platforms and they decide to go to WordPress. In some ways, I think it swings and roundabouts, Robert.


[00:13:53.640] – Robert Newman

Okay. I’ll keep saying it, you’re definitely the expert in this space. I I can only speak from some limited experience, and then what am I going to say?


[00:14:05.090] – Jonathan Denwood

If you’re going to be really challenged to get something up on Squarespace, or you’re going to be really challenged to get something up on Wix, your You’re definitely going to be a bit more challenged with WordPress, but utilizing Cadence or one of the others is, I’m comparing what it was like five or six years ago, and it’s definitely moved on and easier easier to do than it was five or six years ago. But like I say, if you’re going to be challenged with something like Squarespace or Wix, you’re definitely going to be a little bit more challenged getting it up with WordPress.


[00:14:44.210] – Robert Newman

Okay. I’m going to say, and our challenge as host, ladies and gentlemen, is that I’ve got an ever-increasing number of people that are calling me, John, I’m thrilled to say, after I’ve seen years of doing this, that more and more of them have some technical knowledge. But the amount of calls that I’ve taken from inside the real estate space where somebody even struggles to check their email is like, there are way more than I think many other industries, way more. And so when you’re like, Oh, it shouldn’t be… And you’re not really saying it that way, but it’s like, Yeah, for some people, just the idea… I the word content management system, and they go, What are you talking about?


[00:15:34.070] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, but beggers can’t be choosers. If you haven’t got the budget to hire something like Melright or hire Robert or hire, you’re really tight. But you know you need to get, and you haven’t got the money to spend a load of money in IDX customization, but you need to get something up because you know it will be beneficial, but it’s got to look really decent These are cost-effective solutions. Like I say, beggers can’t be choosers. If you haven’t got the budget and you feel there’s a need to get your own website, this is one of the more cost-effective ways where you can get IDX also if you want to pay for it. But obviously, I think hiring a professional, hiring Robert, or you to look at the Melright platform, which is all based on WordPress technology, is a really good idea. But there’s a market for the DIY, isn’t it?


[00:16:43.660] – Robert Newman

There really is. Let’s put a pin in it. We’re going to come back. John is going to continue to share some of his brilliant thoughts with everybody. When we come back from break, we’ve got three more recommendations on our list for you. John is going to walk you through them and list the pros and cons as it relates to some of these other platforms. We got a lot of great content. If By the way, if you are in the position that John just said, you’re really tight using his language, listen, this is the show for you because you don’t have a lot of options. You don’t have a lot of content producers like us trying to explain to you what you’re really really beginning low cost budget options are. We’re super excited to get into it. Stay tuned. Three, two, one. All right, welcome back to episode number 428. John has really decided to be of service to the world at large today, and he’s sharing his years and years and years worth of WordPress knowledge. And he’s running through some of the do it yourself builders that are very low cost, how to put up WordPress, and he’s doing a review on them.


[00:17:44.390] – Robert Newman

This is strictly for those of you who might be at the beginning of your career, low budget, not yet in a place where you can recommend using a vendor of any kind, this would be a place you can go to, theoretically, number one, get a website up. And Number two, this is the one thing I agree with strongly. Why would somebody do this? In my opinion, it’s about you train and condition yourself to use a good content management system. Because later on, you can always hire a guy like, John might be the first person you consider, and then maybe a while later, you might consider me. Because we’re just doing different types of products. We’re both using WordPress, though. We’re both using this platform. If you’re already used to it, it is actually going to be easier easier and easier and easier to hire other people in the WordPress world to work with you. You’re going to find it simple. John, without any further ado, that you’ve got a remaining three people to talk about. What’s number two on the list?


[00:18:44.310] – Jonathan Denwood

I’m going to go through all three of the Gutenberg, and then you can remark, and it hopefully gives us enough time to go through the non-Gutenberg quickly. So quick, Spectra. Spectra is a bit cadence. Specter is owned by a company called ASTRA. Astra are big in Alimator and Gutenberg. They provide… It’s very similar to Cadence. There are some differences, but I’m not going to go into them now, but they’re very similar. Cadence has about 700,000 active users, and I think Specter has about 400,000 active users. They both provide free and paid. I would look at the paid version. I personally think Cadence is a little bit better than Specter, but there are people that would say Specter is better than Cadence. They’re both quality companies. I think probably Specter, especially Ashtra, do have a few more themes, starter themes that are aimed at real estate agents. On to the next one, Generate Blocks. I know the developer, it’s a privately-owned company, smaller than the first two, but he’s been in the WordPress space and running this company for a number of years. It really appeals to the more professional web designer because they don’t provide a lot of starter themes, but the code it produces and the speed it produces, the basic way you build or edit a website is going to be similar to Cadence and Spectra, but they don’t offer a lot of starter themes.


[00:20:47.320] – Jonathan Denwood

But if you look at the code, it’s super quality and it’s super quick. And he’s adding, I think it’s just come out. He’s come out with a more class. This is web development talk, a class-based system that makes it more appealing to the professional developer and makes it even more quick and powerful. And the last one is max blocks. These people were big in the divi world and still are, and it’s one of the solutions that’s non-Gutenberg that we’re going to talk about. And they’ve produced and they’ve put a ton of work. And it’s the total opposite of Generate Blocks because they got, even with the free products, and the paid product is very reasonably priced. They offer… They’ve got about 300, 400 template starter themes in their library. I don’t know if any of them are specifically designed for real estate, but they’ve got an enormous library and they’re gaining market share. They’re nothing like Spectra or Cadence, but they are because they’re offering so much for free and even in the pro version, even a lot more. Like I say, they’ve got hundreds and hundreds of well-designed starter themes. That offer quality, that’s quite amazing.


[00:22:22.100] – Jonathan Denwood

Because of their background in divvy in all those years, even though they’re a small team, I don’t think you’re going on much of a gamble. They’ve invested hundreds of thousands of dollars of their own money to get where they’re going. They’re the Gutenberg solutions that I would recommend. Shall we go on to… You got a comment before we go on to the non-Gutenberg page builders?


[00:22:50.850] – Robert Newman

No, I mean, I could make some, but no, we got a lot more to cover, a little amount of time. Let’s get into it.


[00:22:57.280] – Jonathan Denwood

So the non-Gutenberg, these are plugins that you installed that are not based on this Gutenberg core WordPress technology. And the big daddy, the big guerrilla is Alimator. Alimator really Elemator. Elemator, yeah. Elemator. They really dominate. They were one of the first that really got into the page, the non-code, drag and drop page builder. The one before them that had a large market share and still has is Divi. But Elemator really took off because It was the first in the market. Now, until recently, the problem with Alimentor was that the code quality wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t fantastic. It produced a lot of additional code to produce this drag and drop environment, which they were one of the first to develop. You overcome it, but you can overcome it by just provide them really good hosting, like WP engine or my other business, we provide hosting that WP tonic. We instill support Elementor, and we offer it. But we’ve got more Gutenberg. And also recently, they changed their core technology to something called flex box. And they’ve done this to reduce the amount of code necessary to produce a certain page or website layout, and that offers the prospect of it being quicker.


[00:24:54.800] – Jonathan Denwood

But I think they’re running almost, I think it’s 10 to 14 million websites that are active users of the product. There’s quite a few millions upon millions of people utilizing it. I think as long as you got good quality hosting, that’s probably going to cost you between $20 to $40 a month. You’re going to get around some of the performance problems that Elementor can produce. Got any response to that?


[00:25:35.290] – Robert Newman

We use Elementor on our installs. We swear by it. It’s a fantastic tool. There’s a thousand things you can do with it if you have the agency model. The saving of a lot of design elements inside Elementor, so it’s all drag and drop, allows us to create a specific experience for our customers that relates to real estate, different search bars, different design elements, which we actually do leverage all the time. It allows us to do a fairly advanced semi-custom site in incredibly reasonable amount of time, lowering the cost and lowering the cost of acquisition for a fairly customized website with an actual set of designers and marketing people behind it. A drag and in this whole world that we’re living in right now, John, it eliminates the perceived value of UX and UI specialists. What I like about Elementor is it can take a UI guy like myself. I don’t have a lot of technical skill sets as they would normally be related, but I am creative and I’m very good at user interface. Obviously, that’s an SEO skill set, which most people don’t understand. It’s not so much like it’s something pretty It’s ease of use.


[00:27:01.850] – Robert Newman

Is it natural? Does it navigate well? Do you want to click on it? Things like that. That’s all user interface. And so Elementor gives me so many options for user interface. I can go through my palette of 10 design options for a homepage, like 10 search boxes as an example. But if I don’t want to use the 10, we can always have the designer design another one and put it in Elementor, or a client can point out an element that they like on somebody else’s site. We can decide whether or not we want to keep it as a permanent addition to our design tool kit inside Elementor. Theoretically, our clients can use the same design kit at any time, basically allowing us to be a a version of a square for our own clients, but yet at the same time be a bespoke agency. I love Elementor. That’s the bottom line. Let’s go on to the next one. Number 6, Divi.


[00:27:56.320] – Jonathan Denwood

Divi was on the market before Elementor. Still extremely popular. The owner and the team behind Divi are some of the best marketers that I know in the WordPress space. Their SEO, their ability, their content they produce, the video they produce, they really know. These are online marketing animals, as I’m concerned. The owner really knows his target audience. A lot of DIY people still love Divi, and there’s a lot of graphic designers that still love Divi. The basic technology does not produce fantastic code. You need quality hosting if you’re going to run a Divi website, in my opinion, but it’s got a fanatical law following, and it’s got a lot of themes that it provides. There’s a lot of third-party themes. They are attempting to move to Gutenberg technology. They have been saying that they’re going to be doing this for almost three years. They have got it in beta, but they haven’t managed to release it to the public. Yet. People are wondering if they ever are going to be able to, but we have to see. The next one is Bricks. Bricks has become the darling of the website freelancer WordPress agency who doesn’t like Animator.


[00:29:59.140] – Jonathan Denwood

It’s I wouldn’t recommend it for a DIY individual unless they want… It’s a real hobby being mucking around with websites, but it’s enormously powerful. It has a drag and drop. It gives you total control. The code it produces is some of the best that I’ve ever seen produced by a page builder. When I became a web developer, you had to hand code things, and the standard of code it produces is very similar to somebody. If you looked at the code of somebody that had built a website that knew what they were doing. Very clean code, It’s a powerful builder. Like I say, for the freelancer, for the web agency who don’t like Alimator, but there’s loads of agencies like Rob, the one that Robert owns, and there’s loads of agencies that just love Alimator, and I’m agnostic about it because I think they all have their strengths and weaknesses. And lastly, we’re going to talk, and maybe next week we’ll delve in this a bit more detail, is there’s a whole world that’s controlled by this company called Theme Forest. Now, Theme Forest is just a website, a marketplace, where third-party theme developers offer themes, plugins, all sorts.


[00:31:44.200] – Jonathan Denwood

It’s based in Australia. It’s one of the most popular and profitable WordPress properties. I think it’s a publicly limited It’s a company in Australia, I think. And there’s thousands upon thousands of themes and plugins, and there’s a lot of work, a lot of themes, aimed at the real estate agent who wants to get something up themselves, or a WordPress freelancer, or a lower-level agency at a lower price, tend to utilize these themes. Now, there’s strengths and weaknesses. Next week, I’ll be going through maybe half a dozen of the most popular Theme Forest themes. But you got to be aware what you’re getting into because there are some amazing quality solutions on Theme Forest, but there’s also a lot of trash on Theme Forest. And you could make a real big mistake by choosing the wrong solution on Theme Forest. But a lot of people in the WordPress professional area, really rubbish Theme Forest. I think I’m more realistic about it. I think it has its place. I personally wouldn’t go there, but I understand why a lot of people that on a small budget and they just want… The other thing is a lot of these bigger theme, these starter themes on Theme Forest, they have IDX integration.


[00:33:43.510] – Jonathan Denwood

It will work with a specific IDX plugin. You just got to know what you’re getting involved in, really. What do you reckon, Rob?


[00:33:58.060] – Robert Newman

Well, I agree with all that. I actually I have more input about Themeforce than I do most of the subjects that you’ve covered. Don’t know most of these companies. I actually just sent brick builders over to the lead developer on my team so that he can comment on it. I like Powerful. I like the way it’s laid out. I can also tell you in the 10 seconds that I was on the site that it cannot possibly be your most adoptable DIY because there’s language on here that I struggle with, and I know what I’m talking about.


[00:34:30.510] – Jonathan Denwood

You’re talking about bricks, are you?


[00:34:31.580] – Robert Newman



[00:34:32.670] – Jonathan Denwood

Oh, yeah, bricks. It’s aimed at the freelancer.


[00:34:38.280] – Robert Newman

Okay, so it’s not really a DIY.


[00:34:41.800] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, there are some DIY-ers that It’s aimed at the very knowledgeable…


[00:34:51.140] – Robert Newman

I would say that this is aimed at the small business owner with the technical background. Diy, to me, in this case, would be somebody somebody who’s already a proficient digital entrepreneur and is looking for a better than average tool that they can use and is not scared of a technical product. Then maybe Bricks would be the one you look at because I haven’t heard of it.


[00:35:14.780] – Jonathan Denwood

They’ve been very aggressive on AppSumma. Appsumma is an online discounter, folks, and a lot of freelancers and web agencies spend They’re the king of the lifetime deal, AppSumma, and bricks to get traction have been very aggressive with their lifetime deals, Robert. They increased it. I bought it because it was such an attractive price, and I know the developer team behind it, Thomas. It’s based in Germany, and they’ve got a lot of experience in the WordPress space. I know he’s invested half a million dollars in de-verbing this, so they’re serious. They’ve been very aggressive with their lifetime deals, and that’s why it’s Freelancers and smaller web agencies love their lifetime deals, Robert. That’s how they’ve really got traction because they’ve been offering these lifetime deals.


[00:36:29.300] – Robert Newman

It’s It’s got a lot of very relevant people giving testimonials on it, which I look at every single time I check somebody new out. And Bricks has the right pedigree in terms of who’s saying what about it, including John, by the way, first person, right pedigree. Then there would be other people with right pedigree. You do your own research. John and I are like, I don’t know about John, but I’m going to give the disclaimer. It’s like investment. Listen, we are talking about these people. We’re not really giving you advice. Make the decision that is Well, we are giving you some advice. We’re giving you input. Make your own decisions. These are all big decisions. Who you build your website on, it could be a many years relationship with this company. Theme Forest is something that I use for a while. And honestly, John, while I had to use it because I was getting started from me in a garage and one personal assistant, and that was it, it caused me a lot of problems using Theme Forest.


[00:37:25.320] – Jonathan Denwood

You got to know what you’re getting involved with. So if you’re up for it, maybe we look at some of the most popular real estate themes in the Theme Forest because I think-But I think-Yeah, go on. Hold on.


[00:37:41.860] – Robert Newman

From Theme Forest, I went to Agent Evolution, the company IDX broker bought, the theme builder. I went to Agent Evolution, which is a particular theme builder. That caused me a lot of problems. You know why it kept causing me problems, everybody? Everything that John is saying that I know is almost incomprehensible to all of you; how a website is built is based very heavily on the code and how it’s built. Some load, oftentimes, things that look fine to you are not built in a way that the search engine is like or that they digest quickly or take a while. John’s referencing it in terms of web code load. But theme builders put many extraneous things in there because they’re trying to build a one-size-fits-all tool. That’s the way my developer explained it to me. I’m not professing to know this. I’m telling everybody I spend a lot of money on my guy who then tells me, Well, Robert, what they did is they put in 50 different solutions into the code, but you only need one. There are things like that that you cannot see. Anyway, John, I appreciate you sharing your expertise with us on this subject.


[00:38:52.020] – Robert Newman

It’s amazing. Thank you so much for taking your time and your energy. Thank you for putting the subject together because I don’t know we’ve ever done this in four years. I think you and I have been working together on this show. Incredible, incredible. I learned a lot, and I’m still learning a lot. I’ve got everybody pulled up. I’m going to look at them when we get there.


[00:39:09.620] – Jonathan Denwood

To finish off, I think if you’re going to go down this route, I would look at the first two or an LMA tour. I would either look at the LMA tour or look at the first two, Gutenberg, Cadence, or Spectra. But I think you should stand a chance and get something up.


[00:39:37.490] – Robert Newman

I’m going to sign off. If anybody would like to reach out and get more of my thoughts, I don’t have a lot of DIY thoughts on my website. I don’t talk about it much. This is a new subject. I’m going to say this. It probably sounds like I’m pooh-poohing it. I’m not. I’m not. John was 100% correct. If you’re a beginning agent and you are just getting up… I don’t know that I agree that WordPress is as easy as Square or Wix, but there’s a much deeper… John, you get to say your bit when I’m done because I know you may disagree, and that’s fine. But listen, I will say this. There is long-term thinking that goes with WordPress, which is way better than any other platform. You can build websites you own on WordPress. You can find guys like me and John who’ve done a lot with the tool and customized it. We’re probably going to give you, some of us, John and I both, are going to provide you with a lifetime license to the thing, which means you get to use it, vanadium, and you can control it way more than you can’t square Wix.


[00:40:48.160] – Robert Newman

There is way more value in that if you’re interested in independence and ownership. There is way more value than that if you’re interested in SEO. All those long-term ideas work best with WordPress. That means that learning WordPress, which is a content management system at the heart of it, is the way to go with a long-term independent thinker. This means that if you wanted a baby step, let’s say you’re listening to the show and can’t afford me, you can’t even afford John, and that’s a perfectly reasonable situation. Well, then, what could you do that would still advance your career and maybe make your long-term thinking have some merit? This is it. This is a significant first step, in my opinion. That’s how I’m going to sign off. Do you want to get into it? Let’s look at a do-it-yourself builder for a couple hundred dollars a year and a minimal hosting fee. You’ll learn a lot in the process. Maybe you’ll succeed, perhaps you won’t, but the knowledge can’t be taken away from you. And you can leverage that many, many times in your real estate career, many times.


[00:41:54.550] – Robert Newman

Robert@inboundrem. Com, if you’d like to reach me, John, I will turn it over to you, let you sign off, and tell people how to contact you.


[00:42:02.850] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, sure. I agree with everything you just said. So the best way to get it is to go to the mail-right. You can book a chat with me on the Com website. It’s right in the top navigation. We can have a quick chat and see and maybe have the opportunity to show you what Mailright does. Back over to you, Rob.


[00:42:23.270] – Robert Newman

Okay. So guys, listen, thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you go to John doesn’t know this, but I’ve been getting more feedback that people have been finding me on. I’ve gotten two leads in the last 30 days from people who actually saw me on the MailRight YouTube channel and then looked me up. Sometimes happening there, John. I don’t know what it is. I haven’t checked it out myself in a while, but I will say that for those of you looking at this particular show, reach out to John. If you’re a DIY or have questions, you’re trying to establish a relationship with somebody who’s in the real I’m the SEO guy. Not that John doesn’t have his skills, but this is my breath for 16 years. John has been in the DIY space, the WordPress space, for a long time, and is acknowledged by many people who know what they’re talking about as a thought leader in this category. So, reach out to him and ask your questions 100 %. I can’t say it enough. That’s what I got.


[00:43:26.700] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, we’ll go now, folks. We’ll see you next week.


[00:43:31.880] – Robert Newman

All right, we’ll say no, sorry.


[00:43:34.010] – Jonathan Denwood

Bye. Bye.


Gutenberg Based Page Builders

#1 – Kadence WP


Prices Free | Essentials $149 yearly | Full $219 yearly

#2 – Spectra

Prices Free | Spectra Pro $49 yearly | Essential Toolkit $79 yearly | Business ToolKit $149 yearly


#3 – GenerateBlocks

Prices | Personal $59 yearly | Plus $69 yearly | Professional $99 yearly


#4 – MaxBlocks

Prices Free | Solo Pro $99 yearly | Double Pro $149 yearly | Team Pro $199 yearly


——- ——— ——— ——–

None Gutenberg Page Builders

#5 – Elementor

Prices | Essential $59 yearly | Advanced $99 | Expert $199 yearly | Agency $399 yearly

#6 – Divi

Prices | Divi $89 yearly | Divi Pro $277

#7 – Bricks


Prices | Starter $79 yearly | Business $149 yearly | Unlimited $249


038: Good Quality Photography With Special Guest Greg McDaniels
038: Good Quality Photography & Video is Important! 1

We discuss with our special guest Greg McDaniels the importance of quality photography connected to being a successful real estate Read more

039: Why Agents Need To Blog Regularly
038: Good Quality Photography & Video is Important! 1

Agents need to do more than blogging to get results in 2016. We discuss this during this show with our two Read more

040: We Have Special Guest Greg McDaniels
038: Good Quality Photography & Video is Important! 1

Greg McDaniel literally began his career at his father’s knee. It would not be an exaggeration to say he has Read more

041: Personal Agent Photography With Preston Zeller
038: Good Quality Photography & Video is Important! 1

Personal agent photography is really important but usually semi-forgotten. We have a great guest "Preston Zeller" on the show who recently Read more

Posted in Podcast | Comments Off on #428 – The Mail-Right Show: Best WordPress DIY Builders to Build Your Real Estate Website On In 2024

#427- Mail-Right Show: BoomTown vs CINC Pro An Honest Review For 2024

Wednesday, April 17th, 2024

BoomTown vs CINC An Honest Review For 2024

BoomTown vs CINC: An Honest Review For 2024

2024 comparison: BoomTown vs CINC Pro – Unbiased review helps you choose the best real estate software.

Get ready for an in-depth comparison between two real estate software giants: BoomTown and CINC. In this honest review for 2024, we dissect both platforms’ features, pricing, and user experience to help you make an informed decision. You can take advantage of this comprehensive analysis that will help you choose the right tool for your real estate business.

#1 – Who is BoomTown vs CINC best aim At?

#2 – What are the key differences between these two CRM platforms?

#3 – What are these two platforms’ key strengths and weaknesses?

#4 – Regarding the functionality price matrix, which offers the best value?

#5 – What are the particular peculiarities of each platform?

#6 – Generally, what agents or brokers would get the best value from either platform?

Episode Full Show Notes


[00:00:22.820] – Robert Newman

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. John and I are excited to introduce you to episode 427 of the Mail-Right Show. Today, if you are a real estate system fan, we will be talking about sync in Boomtown. These systems aren’t going to be wildly searched right now because we’re in the middle of one of the most significant upheavals the real estate industry has ever seen. However, that will soon pass, and everybody will be coming back and circling back around for the newest, latest information on these systems. That’s what we intend to give you today: the information you will need to make a great decision about your next real estate system. We’re going to look at sync and boom town before we do. I would love it, John, if you could go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience.


[00:01:13.050] – Jonathan Denwood

Thanks, Rob. I’m the joint founder of mail-right. com. We’re CRM, a lead-generative platform. We also provide fantastic-looking websites through WordPress. I’m back over to you, Robert.


[00:01:28.760] – Robert Newman

Beautiful. All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we will get into sync in Boomtown. Before we do that, I want to let everybody know that while there are a lot of reviews, and we’re going to do a verbal overview today, we’re not going to look at the system; I do have two reviews up in which I got user licenses for each of these systems. I get a lot of questions, Sean, about the age of these reviews because I only update them sometimes. The reason is simple. These companies need to update their platform in meaningful ways for years and years at a time. My updates and reviews regarding what the system looks like are still 95% accurate, maybe even 97 or 98%. Can you hear it? John and I will download an informational download with our thoughts and opinions about how these systems are positioned today. John has gone ahead as he always does, done an incredible job, prepared a deep list, and The first question, which I think is brilliant, is, who is Boomtown versus sync best named at? I’m going to let you open up with your thoughts about that.


[00:02:37.990] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, personally, watching your reviews, I have actually not with Boomtown, but we actually had a couple of people helping us use sync. I have yet to get first-hand knowledge of Boomtown, only my research. I do have first-hand knowledge of sync, which is a really powerful system, ridiculously complicated. You needed a load of training—one of the persons we were working with kept complaining about the bits we supplied. I thought, You must be kidding. You have to spend almost 30 hours training with this bloody sink, and they also charge for it. I think I’m correct. They charge for the training. To utilize their enormously complicated system. And I believe Boomtown isn’t too far behind. So I think it’s really power users’ industry individual agents with a reasonably large power team or a brokerage. I really can’t; apart from those two examples, I can’t really see why somebody would use either to be quite truthful. But in those two examples I’ve given, I think their other problem, and I’ll be interested in your thoughts, is KVCORE, because the one that spent an enormous amount of money on trains with SINC.


[00:04:17.820] – Jonathan Denwood

About six months later, he went to KVCORE and moved there. I think KVCORE can run similar numbers as these. I don’t think it’s as good as either of these, but you might have a totally different opinion, so I’ll be interested in that. I go over to you, Robert.


[00:04:39.450] – Robert Newman

As the years have passed, SINC has been less about a real estate lead generation system and more about a total back-end automation system. Currently, they’ve got banking integrations that are unique to them. They’ve got property management integrations. They’ve got mortgage integrations and HOA integrations, which are basically CRMs for each of those individual services. They’re far less about being a real estate lead generation system. They’re also far less about being a real estate lead generation system as it relates to everybody else, like everybody else in the industry. And they’ve got a different profile that they use for this called Sync Systems, which is connected to their real estate products. So they started with real estate products, developed all these tools in the back end to service real estate, and then spun it off into another website and another set of services. They are focusing all of their development and innovation time on integrations that don’t relate directly to the average real estate agent or even the average real estate agent. They’re going to be global. If I could best put it, they had the same idea Ben Kinney did with Place, except for their years ahead in making the nuts and bolts.


[00:06:14.380] – Robert Newman

Now, Ben Kinney has all the excitement, John, and he’s raised a billion dollars for the place. But Sync has the actual tools. I only realized how much or how deep they had gone into this once I did some research for the show and realized that they’ve been doing sideways development for a while. We all know Syncpro as their lead generation system. That’s what you and I are talking about right now, synchro. Syncpro is different from some of the other stuff they’ve been doing. Syncpro has yet to update at all, like in the last few years. Syncpro is a minimal version of these tools that connects to an elementary real estate website, and it doesn’t necessarily… I’m looking through it here for updates. Here’s what I do, ladies and gentlemen, and I’ve said this, and I’ve done this, and John, I’ve done this in countless reviews. I go to the website and see what they’ve been discussing. Are they updating their customers? Are they updating their internal or external customers at all? I look for updates because if you were updating your system as you do with Mailright and had a big audience already, a big group, everything, wouldn’t you take the time to tell everybody how awesome you were doing if you were updating?


[00:07:46.200] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, their main problem, if you’re talking about sync, is their website offerings because they’re painful, as I’m concerned, even compared to KV. ‘ I think KVCore has done more than what they’ve done. That’s saying something. I’m a bit sassy today. I’ve done another podcast, and I was a bit sassy on that, so I feel pumped up. I’ve had too much coffee, Rob. It could be evil, my comments so that I might get some emails instead of Rob. So there we go. But I need help seeing, apart from the website, what much more they can do. But what they’re doing is what you laid out. They’re doing more on the integration if you’re the most prominent broker and you wanted a Swiss army knife for your back-end stuff. That’s what they’re concentrating on, aren’t they?


[00:08:58.730] – Robert Newman

Yeah, definitely. And you know what? As with most of my competitors, let me say, everybody, for the sake of this article, I went in and started to read the sync blog, and they’ve definitely increased their presence there. Since they actively advertise against me at InboundREM, I feel like they’re paying attention to what I’m saying. They’re doing many things where they’re doing real estate lead value index, and that’s basically where they indicate, Hey, a dollar spent in leads is supposed to be 13% commission. I am curious to know if that metric is theirs or if they’re pulling average lead value, but I can tell you it’s a lot of spreadsheets and a lot of percentages, and I do not know a single agent making any of these numbers. I need to find out what they’re talking about. I don’t have anybody that’s pulling in a 13 to 1 ROI on PPC right now. I need to find out where they’re getting their data from. But if any of you are listening to this show, just as a quick aside, and you are getting better than 13 to 1 off a PPC budget using any lead system whatsoever, let us know.


[00:10:10.400] – Robert Newman

Drop us a comment because I’d love to be proven wrong. I would love to be wrong.


[00:10:14.720] – Jonathan Denwood

So let’s go on to the next one then because we’re almost nine minutes in. So what’s the difference between the two? What’s any really fundamental differences between the two CRMs, Rob?


[00:10:26.350] – Robert Newman

Oh, tons. Sync is an all-in-one, and it’s super complex. If you have got super complicated back-end payment structures that connect into your front-end sales process, so essentially very large teams with very complex financial arrangements, like many, many affiliate partners, mortgage brokers that partner with you, many people that write loans for you, many people that refer business to you. Sync is one of the hands down. If you can comb through it and create a CTO-type expert and get all the training, and You are right, they oftentimes charge for their trainings. If you can do all of that, then sync is a hands-down choice. Now, Boomtown is a simplified lead generation platform built for teams of salespeople that are small to medium size that are hunters. Everybody can see my reviews, including you, John, where I really drill deep down into that and lay a foundation for why I say that, those two things. Why is it that I feel that those two systems are built that way and who they’re built for. What do you think, though? You’ve watched my reviews, and you’ve done so probably more recently than I dropped them than I have. So what do you think these two key differences are?


[00:11:40.860] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, number one, Boomtown is built on WordPress, but multi-site. I think that is still the case. Better-looking website than sync, but that’s not saying too much, is it? I think if you’re an individual agent, a reasonably large team underneath you or a broker, and you’re on the mentality to look at all the data and look at where all the leads are coming from and spend their hours and then actually have Excel or a database, and you’re keeping track, and you’re keeping track and you’re keeping track of all hours, blah, blah, blah. It’s probably worth it. If you’re in the hunter mode and you’re up for it, but I think there’s only a small… It’s sizable because still a sizable niche. But I think you got to have the mindset and the knowledge and the resources to make either. But if you’re in the lead generative mindset, you’re going to go with Boomtown, aren’t you?


[00:13:02.250] – Robert Newman

Yeah. And speaking of Boomtown versus sync, it’s small, medium teams versus large teams with complex back-end scenarios. That’s sync. Ease of use is what I’d say the difference between Boomtown and sync is. If I had to put it down to one sentence for number two, ease of use. Boomtown is easier by far. Actually, everybody’s easier than sync.


[00:13:23.910] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah. So let’s go to number three before we go for our break. What are the two platforms as key strengths and weaknesses, Rob? One or two before we go for a break.


[00:13:34.330] – Robert Newman

Sure. I mean, if I was looking for a sophisticated back-end system that was already developed, there’s no doubt in my mind that I would be taking a strong look at sync, comparing the hundred or so features that has in the back end of the platform and seeing if they met my needs. That’s a strength. The weakness is doing that comparison, doing a dive into sync, it’s going to be expensive and time consuming. That’s the weakness for them. Boomtown is easier to use by far, way overpriced for what you’re getting. I don’t know if that’s a weakness, but they have been so out Outvalued inside the CRM world. I’ve got no words for it. They used to be bleeding edge. For a long time, they were bleeding edge, John. Then they become like they have a slightly better-looking website. They’ve got a little bit more thought and passion put into their products. No doubt about it. They’ve got a better-looking IDX, which they built. There are a lot of strengths with it that they’ve got, but they haven’t really changed all that much in over eight years, and it shows. That’s what I got.


[00:14:45.680] – Jonathan Denwood

I think with Zinc, I’m not sure. I think they might got bought out by these people, but- Fidelity National Mortgage, yeah, they did. No, I was talking about Boston Logic. I think they’re trying to I think they’re trying to build a competitor to Boston Logic. Boston Logic built custom solutions for large brokerages. That was their bag. But I think Boston Logic either bought somebody. Did they bought Boomtown? I think they might have bought Boomtown. I’m not sure. I’m getting confused, Robert, but it happens often, doesn’t it, Robert?


[00:15:25.710] – Robert Newman

Property-based and Boston Logic partnered up to build website/real-estate lead gen system. That was in 2018 that they made that announcement. I still haven’t actually seen the final product. I don’t know. I have no idea if they did that. I know they announced it. I don’t think that BostonLogic got bought by anybody because they were raising money six, seven years ago for all private equity money. Now, whether or not that’s remained the same, who knows? I don’t know. I do not know.


[00:15:59.150] – Jonathan Denwood

I just felt they were going… Because I knew, before we go for a break, I knew the owner’s son of Dickinson’s, which is, I think, the largest independent brokerage in Northern Nevada, and they were looking for a solution. I was having a chat with him, and they went with Boston Logic. But they had 500, 600 agents. So he was looking for a whole Swiss army. That’s why I I think I’ll be totally wrong. Shall we go for a break, Rob?


[00:16:35.040] – Robert Newman

Let’s do it. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we’re doing a deep dive today. So if there’s any place that you find this, share it with your other real estate friends, share it in your real estate groups, and that would be the way you’d thank me and John, and leaving us comments. We’ll be right back. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 427 of The Mailright Show. Today, we’re talking about Boomtown versus sync. We’re doing an honest review for 2024 because John and I are notorious for being dishonest. All right. Number four, regarding the functionality price matrix? Which is the best value? Now, do you want to take a stab at this? Or do you want me to just like, You know I’ve got a lot to say on all of this stuff.


[00:17:23.930] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I suppose I think I shouldn’t do this because trying to work out what’s going on in Rob’s mind is not really possible, really. But I presume if you’re looking for… If you’re that size of brokerages, and you’re really looking for a real back-end. And I find it… I know this is a bit of a sweeping statement, really, but I offer a certain type of medium regional brokerage. They have somebody who’s their marketing guru, their analytical guru, and they tend to go with Google paid average, and they track everything They got somebody on board. They’re also looking for a Swiss army knife for all the backends. I think they probably look at sync. But I think if you’re a smaller team and you’re still using They tend not to go, which is the wrong attitude, because they should combine it with content, what you specialize in. But I just find that it’s a mindset. They should combine both, but they tend to go with the paid thing. But if they’re more hunter, as you say, they’re probably going to go… They’ll be better off with Boomtown, aren’t they?


[00:18:56.950] – Robert Newman

Yeah, in terms of price matrix, ladies and gentlemen, when Boomtown was doing some exciting collaborations with Craigslist, and they had some innovative advertising strategies that connected directly into the back of the platform. And now they’ve lost most of the races. Chime is just as easy to use from a platform perspective. They’re not nearly as valuable from the website perspective. But since Boomtown made the decision a long time ago to go with multi-sites, there’s actually not… While the actual site performs better for Boomtown than it does for a company like Chime, you don’t end up seeing the value out of building on WordPress because you don’t own it. You don’t have control of it, you don’t own it. And Boomtown will take your iteration of that website and do something else with it when you leave, maybe repurpose it, which is great for them and horrible for you, the end user, who spent all the money building up the domain authority and value, because that’s what you’re doing when you advertise to a URL consistently. In terms of the best value for your money right now in 2024, I absolutely would probably say sync, because the complicated, really specific things the sync system can do.


[00:20:20.890] – Robert Newman

I don’t know that… I mean, Boomtown has never been very friendly on the integration side, and that is more and more what the modern millennium is becoming about, and Boomtown is terrible. All of that sync is better, and they’ve got a lot of custom development. I just think that for them… But they’re both wildly overpriced, just for the record. That’s what I have to say.


[00:20:45.300] – Jonathan Denwood

Let’s go on to number five, because you know these… You’ve done an enormous deep dive. Are there any particular peculiarities that apply to individual or each platform that you think people should know I think that back in the days in which…


[00:21:03.910] – Robert Newman

I think it was Alan was in charge of Boomtown. There was a vast difference between sync and Boomtown. They both have incredibly strong management companies. There’s a dual CEO thing going on over at SINC, or there was when I last researched it. And Greer Allen, who is one of the more charismatic, personable, really dedicated CEOs, was the founder and owner of Boomtown. Alan Greer went out, the only money he ever raised was to buy a big building in the middle of the city that they’re in and bring all of his team members together to create a better working atmosphere. That dedication, the fact that they focused on high touch, Boomtown was very It’s very ahead of its time in certain regards, and still is. You still get a high touch onboarding process with a dedicated team. I honestly think that the strength of each of these teams would be in the people, not the platform. The platform technology on both sides is antiquated at this point. You can sit here and go, we would need to do a show on each one of these things. I would need to deep dive it for you and explain what What does all those systems do better for each one of these performance metrics, why AI is changing the game, what you could expect, where you should go.


[00:22:42.660] – Robert Newman

If for no other reason than keeping this simple, Chime offers many of Boomtown’s same functionality for half the price. By the way, I’m not recommending Chime.


[00:22:54.610] – Jonathan Denwood

I think one thing I think you’ve touched on in your videos, and I we’ve touched upon it, is I don’t know what… I think it applies to sync as well. But Boomtown, if you want to take your data out and put it in another platform, they won’t make it easy, or basically, they’ll say no. Am I right about that statement? And I think it’s something 100%.


[00:23:25.590] – Robert Newman

It’s terrible. It’s terrible. The customer service policies at Boomtown are 10 years old, and they could have been better to start with, and they’re awful in today’s marketplace. Terrible. Sync is better, but they still need some friendly customer service policies on the front end. Both of these companies have pivoted to the current revolution that’s happening, which is like influencer style marketing, where, honestly, most people who are their customers are looking for answers online. They’re finding them from third parties because boom, down, and Sync have yet to bother to build a robust content library about using their platform. They’re both locked in the dark ages. Let’s keep all the details of our systems private where anybody can find them. Whereas, of course, they can see it. They have to search harder, and then it won’t be you. It’s not going to be inside your control. It is crazy to me how neither one of these companies has embraced video to the level that they should from an informational standpoint. You want your users who are coming to you in your channel to figure out all the answers.


[00:24:34.320] – Robert Newman

They both have channels. They’re just not what they should be, in my opinion. That ease of use, that knowledge that you and I talk about incessantly is my touchstone for everybody, which is pretty simple. Do you have the ability to make your products and services understandable and usable by other people? What are you doing if the answer is no or not very quickly?


[00:25:06.440] – Jonathan Denwood

But I’ll say that the only thing that comes to mind is that it’s not a criticism: In the middle to higher-level power team or brokerage, you got Chime, you got Sync, you got Boomtown. Are any of these higher-level systems reasonably easy to use anyway? I don’t think there is, is there?


[00:25:32.040] – Robert Newman

By the way, kvCore is the system that has become the easiest to use and has the most of this available from its user base.


[00:25:43.270] – Jonathan Denwood

All right, yeah. You’re right about that. I see where you’re coming from.


[00:25:48.940] – Robert Newman

That’s what I’m talking about. If I want to know how to use kvCore, that’s why kvCore is dominating the landscape, my friend. In my opinion, they’ve got so many user-based videos, so many incredible videos from so many different real estate, practicing real estate agents that say, This is the way I’m using the system and making money at it. So there’s a guy on SE Team Leader, there’s one video nine months ago on sync that’s talking about sync is starting to slowly but surely build some video library. They’ve got some videos coming out. Only a few. Five days ago, sync University, real estate training, sync shorts, who knows? Sink CEO on NAR settlement. Somebody said something from Sync on the NAR settlement 30 days ago. I’m going to have to watch it. Like, wow, somebody got online and said something. That’s pretty impressive. I mean, never mind. Considering how big of a company they are, my audience is almost as big as NAR. I mean, and good God, I think they got bought for what, $125 million? I don’t know what the number is, but it was ridiculous. I know that.


[00:26:58.290] – Robert Newman

It is like a crazy big company with very little focus on its users in terms of how people try to get and use information online. Boomtown is guilty of the same.


[00:27:15.780] – Jonathan Denwood

So, just to finish off, can you give one persona for each product? To finish off the podcast, Rob, give an ideal persona of who would get the best from each platform.


[00:27:33.480] – Robert Newman

Sure. Multifocused real estate teams with complicated back-end systems. Real estate companies that focus on property management, sales, lease, rehab, and construction. The sink is a hands-down winner for you. Hands-down. They’re who you should look at. I could only recommend this. You’re doing a multifaceted real estate business of intermittent size, or you own a very large one. There’s a great example. For those people who are listening to the show right now, go out and look at Tarvin Realtors in New Jersey. It’s a multi-focused, multi-generational real estate company, and each kid in the company has taken on a new real estate vertical, so they do everything in their part of New Jersey. I mean, everything. They do buying, selling, rehabbing, or at least they did when I last looked. And they do commercial, they do property management, they do everything. That would be who might look at sync. That’s the target customer profile for which this would still be a hands-down winner. Boomtown. The persona or Boomtown is still a leader in the small to mid-size team space. And for the customer’s persona, this is a little bit more complicated to explain, but I think that small to mid-size real estate brokerages without a competent CMO or CTO on staff, which is most of the teams out there.


[00:29:03.410] – Robert Newman

They need a tech person. They don’t have anybody that’s doing that for them. So when that is all the case, that’s when the customer service and the help, the outreach, the management that Boomtown does on the client-facing side, that’s when that money becomes justifiable. That’s when I am wrong about justifying the cost of the system. When you want to leverage that in-person training, you get assigned an account rep, or at least you did. Then, all the reports I got from Boomtown clients said that those training and one-to-one interactions were always precious. So, almost a universal five-star rating, which is why I say that’s where probably Boomtown shines. But who needs that specifically, John? That’s a little harder to answer.


[00:29:51.440] – Jonathan Denwood

You’re going to sit down again.


[00:29:54.810] – Robert Newman

Oh, sure. Sorry. I’m so sorry. I started pacing.


[00:29:57.360] – Jonathan Denwood

You did? He was getting excited there; no, I’m so sorry.


[00:30:00.660] – Robert Newman

I forgot that you were doing the screen thing. I’m so sorry.


[00:30:04.440] – Jonathan Denwood

I think I was getting where he was getting fed up looking at my phone.


[00:30:08.320] – Robert Newman

I was pacing. I forgot we were doing that.


[00:30:11.070] – Jonathan Denwood

He was pacing. I think it’s been an excellent show. We’re not gone too over. And I think we… So, to finish off, well, I think your answer number six is a good finishing point. So, back over to you, Rob. I think we will finish it.


[00:30:25.640] – Robert Newman

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for doing our updated review on these systems. If anybody wants to update my knowledge, I am always up for that. You can reach out to me at robert@inboundrem. Com. You can also go to my website, inboundrem. com Use any of my contact forms and say that you’d like to update my knowledge about sync or Boomtown. If you’re using these systems, if you’ve used them recently, or disagree with anything I said, I am always open to having another conversation about the platform. Over to you, John.


[00:30:55.500] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, and if you’re looking to have a nice-looking website on WordPress, we’re using Gutenberg, and we have a lovely platform for lead generation as part of our lovely WordPress website. So if that’s interesting, go over to Mail-Right. com and book a chat with me or Adam. Back over to you, Rob.


[00:31:17.060] – Robert Newman

Beautiful. Well, that’s it, ladies and gentlemen. The show is wrapped up. John and I are so grateful for your ears, eyes, and everything in between. Have a great day.


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