#431 – The Mail-Right Show: AUTHENTIC Information about Hot Real Estate Leads & Online Lead Generation

#431 - The Mail-Right Show: AUTHENTIC Information about Hot Real Estate Leads & Online Lead Generation

Lead generation is a 3-step process that is guaranteed to work in 2024

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#1 Understanding how the successful lead funnel works in 2024

-a – Cold Lead – you are going to need ten or more valuable touches and 12 to 18 months out from buying or selling

-b- Warming

-c- Hot Lead

#2 – Storytelling works connected to turning cold into warming leads

Hero’s journey | The seller or buyer journey


Joseph Campbell


Video and Newsletter

-a- Deal of the Week

-b- New in the real estate market

-c- Local things to do

-d- retargeting

#3 – Hot leads – you need to do personalized outreach

-a – text messages

– b – Bomb, Bomb video

– c– Phone call

Episode Full Show Notes

[00:00:04.920] -Robert Newman

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mail-Right Show. Today, we’re going to talk about Lead Journey. The actual title of the show is Authentic Information About Hot Real Estate Leads and Lead Generation in 2024. In other words, what you need to know about generating an actual warm lead. Forgive me for all the motion here. My cat has decided to do some acrobatics in front of me, and I’m having to calm him down. Anyway, so with no further to do before we get deep into the subject, and we stop talking about my cat.

[00:00:44.960] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, at least you’re not going to shoot your cat.

[00:00:49.100] -Robert Newman

I love my animals.

[00:00:51.900] -Jonathan Denwood

It’s dogs and goats that you don’t like.

[00:00:55.810] -Robert Newman

No, I like animals in general. As long as they don’t interfere with the things I’m trying to do, which, of course, that’s what they want to do most at all times. But having said that, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself to all the people who might be listening to the show today?

[00:01:13.780] -Jonathan Denwood

That’s fantastic, Rob. I’m the joint founder of Mel-right. Com. We build beautiful websites on WordPress, plus we provide CRM landing pages, email, text outreach, and a lot more, all in one A great value package. Back over to you, Robert.

[00:01:33.940] -Robert Newman

Awesome stuff. Ladies and gentlemen, I’m the founder of InboundREM. It’s a content marketing, story-telling-based platform. I’ve got what I’m well known for is being a real estate SEO Authority. Without any further ado, and if you’d like to figure out anything about me, for those of you who are watching the show, you already know how because I wear my swag on the show every day.

[00:01:57.140] -Jonathan Denwood

I’m very impressed, Rob.

[00:02:00.060] -Robert Newman

So without any further to do, we’re going to jump into this subject, which is an interesting and good one. And yet, once again, a second time in less than 60 days John has come up with a unique topic, one that we’ve never discussed before. So buckle up. Number one, understanding how a lead funnel would work in 2024. So one of the things I want to ask you is if you feel like things are changing or you’ve been putting in the date a lot, and I agree with you if that’s the direction that you were headed. So do you feel like this is information that might be different than information that you would have handed out to people in 2022? Let’s start there.

[00:02:43.200] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, I think to get leads that pan out, a lot of agents don’t understand this concept. It’s what I call the buyer-seller journey. This isn’t original. I’ve copied this off from other people. Nothing I supply listeners and viewers is original. I can assure you that, but I do think about it. I think a lot of agents, that’s why they get very frustrated. A lot of people can get frustrated about expectations and about what they thought they were engaging in and what they’re getting from a system like Melright, from engaging you, Robert, from anybody that is in the mechanics of helping real estate agents and brokerages around their digital marketing. But those agents that do understand this concept of the buyer-seller journey and about the different stages and different outreach that you should be attempting at this journey that you are with the potential lead that becomes hot is crucial in 2024, in my opinion, Robert.

[00:04:21.580] -Robert Newman

Okay. So essentially what John has researched and proposed, and I agree with, is that today, in today’s world, the quality of a lead is going to be multi-stage. In other words, it’s no longer just as simple as getting a name and a telephone number, and it hasn’t been that simple in quite a few years in my experience. And you’ve got a lot of different ways of building value into the lead. If you have a very successful way of convincing people to leave you their information, but you haven’t told them that much, maybe you hooked them into a free e-book or something else where the value has not yet been established, then you might use a multi-step process to build value into the lead. Once they’re already technically a lead. We’ve separated these into the categories of cold lead, warming, and hot lead. That’s how you’re describing them. You’re saying that you’re going to need 10 or more valuable touches in 12 to 18 months out from buying or selling. I, once again, agree with you. Catching somebody high upstream in terms of the intent funnel might be like an example of the best home buyer’s guide, a manual to buying a home in 2024.

[00:05:29.250] -Robert Newman

There’s an example. You’re catching somebody way upstream, housewife, somebody like that. Not that that exists all that much anymore, but somebody who is doing the shopping and is interested to learn how they would navigate the best rates and so on. In that process, you’d move on to number two on this list, which is storytelling, working, and connected to turning cold into warming leads. John, why don’t you go ahead and explain what you learned while you were researching for the subject? Joseph Candeble, video newsletters, and so on.

[00:06:01.510] -Jonathan Denwood

Well, I’ve always been influenced by union psychology myself. People were going to wonder, what the hell is he going on about? But I have. Union psychology has influenced me, and I think it influenced a great writer called Joseph Campbell, and he wrote this I actually, I haven’t read it. I’ve listened to it on audiobook. It is a bit long-winded. I wouldn’t say he’s, in my opinion, the greatest writer, but he had this concept which is union-based, in my opinion, based on archetypes that every story, every film, mini-series, novel, basically has about five different fundamental storylines to it. A lot of Western culture and Western written material, and then in the 20th century, film and television is based on the hero’s journey, where the hero goes through different stages of this journey. I think you can apply it to the buy or seller journey. What a lot of agents I don’t understand with digital leads is their perception is that all the leads that digital… And it does depend on where the lead comes from, digitally. If it’s coming from Google search, the intent is probably going to be higher than if it came from Facebook or they came from some other digital way of getting them into your CRM, your list.


[00:08:05.260] -Jonathan Denwood

But even then, a lot of the people that you initially contact, they’re going to be on a journey. They are not going to be in the stage to engage with you and lead directly to a check. But this inability of a lot of agents, in some ways understandable if you’re desperate and you need a commission check ASP, you’re not going to understand it because you’re not in the position to be able to understand this. But the agents that are not under such pressure, that have got a bit of leeway, They might not be able to verbalize this so clearly, but I think instinctively they do understand that they’re on a journey and their leads are at different stages of this journey.


[00:09:21.610] -Robert Newman

Copy you. All right, let’s see if I can interpret that. You went We’re going to go down a lot of rabbit holes, and I think that if we’re going to go down some of these rabbit holes, we should probably talk about storytelling in a separate podcast. But I’m going to say that the way that I understood what you’re saying- Next week.is you got to put the consumer in the position of the hero on the journey. In order for this to make sense, though, unfortunately, John, I think that everybody has to understand the way that these… Jung created the idea that human beings associate with one another in archetypes. After studying many different cultures and things like that, he actually looked and said, there are similar archetypes no matter who you are, where you are, what part of the world you live in. Indeed, he has proven to be right. As knowledge has increased despite the proliferation of the internet, Jung apparently got it right. It doesn’t really matter what culture you’re talking about. Asian cultures, American cultures, Irish, the Nordic cultures, everybody has archetypes that they refer to, which means that storytelling is universal, which is why religions have spread so prolifically.


[00:10:41.490] -Robert Newman

They’re generally based on the hero’s archetype. Some additional work was done by some people, including Joseph Campbell, that talked about the archetypes in these people and then created the mythos around the hero’s journey. That would be a journey like Christ. You start oppressed in huge challenges and so on and so forth, and everybody’s against you. And then through diligent work and a little bit of luck, you achieve this great thing, the hero’s journey. I would say applying that bit of storytelling into turning somebody from a cold into warming leads, you’d have to equate that, in my opinion, let’s see if you agree, in this storytelling method, I think you’d have to equate that with you’re on a journey, things are really hard right now, and we’re going to give you the tools to accomplish this very hard task, which in 2024, unfortunately for all of us, buying a home is a very hard task. And I perceive your hero’s journey being you give them the tools to be the hero. Is that what you meant?


[00:11:47.400] -Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, and you’re with them on this journey. So you initially offer something to induce their name and email, and you do some outreach to see just they might be further on the journey than normal. So it’s always best to do some initial outreach, but don’t overdo it. But then they’re on an email list, so you put them on a newsletter, but you actually put effort into that newsletter and you provide value. And periodically, you send them a special email with a additional real high value and content, maybe every quarter, but they’re in your cold list system in your CRM. But then if they come to your website and they have to log in after they’ve done some more searches, that means they’re a warmer probable prospect. So then you need to maybe send them more focused content based on the searches they’re doing, or you send them something where you say, I like to help you some more. Can you give me some more information? Then you can send them more customized outreach. But then they indicate that they’re further on on the journey. And And like on those warming ones, you might send a more periodically more individual content through Bombomb, or they might be on a list that people that you actually ring.


[00:13:46.280] -Jonathan Denwood

That’s what I mean. It’s a… There’s the initial part of the journey, there’s the medium part of the journey, and then there’s the part where they indicate to you that they’re active in the market and they really want your help. Well, that’s the hope, isn’t it?


[00:14:04.740] -Robert Newman

Yeah. I’m going to take everybody, you included on the little journey here. I’ve been a student of sales mechanisms and sales in general since the ’80s, early ’80s. And back in the day, the sales journey, the hero’s journey was always done in face-to-face because door knocking and in-person appointments were common. And so you would knock on a door, a person would answer the door. And then the common sales vernacular at the time was you needed to be able to overcome at least five objections. Objection, answer, response, answer, response, answer, response. As time has gone on, people started to change. They just simply wouldn’t sit around in a conversation with you, no matter how good, charismatic or eloquent you were, and just let you rebut them, rebut them, rebut them, rebut them. Brian Tracy was the first trainer who started talking about ancillary or additional touches, and he did a lot of studies with big corporations that he was consulting with that said, You’re going to get five touches from us, newsletter and email, so on and so forth. So theoretically, when we get on a call with you, some of those objections have been handled by the touches.


[00:15:14.860] -Robert Newman

That’s that he had to explain modern marketing in a way that all the people who are used to the old vernacular of door knocking and overcoming five objections would understand and not fight against because it was so thoroughly trained into all of us that you’re supposed to stay on that conversation or a butt over and over and over and over and over again until somebody said yes or gave you a final no. Well, I think that if we were to do a study today, We discover that people are very similar to thermometers or bank accounts and those touches that John is suggesting. Probably you need more like 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I doubt that five is the number anymore. A touch can be a video that they watch. And video is the best because video can account for many touches all at once. You get somebody watching you for 30 or 45 minutes, you can overcome 5 or 10 objections in a single video without ever speaking to somebody directly. Modern marketing has changed. We are now, all of us, capable of doing TV commercials and doing infomercials, and we have to cleverly impart that information so that somebody doesn’t turn us off.


[00:16:29.050] -Robert Newman

And if we do that successfully, very similar to infomercials, we oftentimes can do 5 or 10 objections. However, the old marketing analogy that Coca-Cola and all the big corporations have done, the reason that they do commercials and billboards and cans and things like that, I don’t know that most people understand this. There’s something called name familiarity or psychological familiarity, which is where we observe things in the background of our mind without ever responding to them. It’s no longer direct response marketing. It’s simply name brand or brand recognition marketing. Most people don’t realize that that marketing takes 10 or 20 times. I get calls and emails from all the time from people saying that they’ve already spoken to me, and they haven’t. What they have done is probably seeing my website When you see a website that has 780,000 impressions, but maybe 22,000 clicks, which I get all the time, you think to yourself, the 780,000 impressions is a waste of time. You’re wrong. You’re getting people, you’re warming people up as they see your URL in search results, and you might have to warm them up 10, 20, 30 times. The way I perceive your comments is very similar.


[00:17:41.590] -Robert Newman

The more important or directly aimed the piece of media is, such as an email sent directly to a person or video, the faster that that person warms up, going from cold to warm to hot, hot being, are they willing to talk to you and have a long conversation with you about whatever it is that you’re I think that you are correct. You listed a few things which we’re going to get into. We’re going to go to a break and we’re going to come back. And when we come back, we’re going to talk about some of the touches because John did get specific in many different touches that he listed, and I might add a few, too, John, about how you can touch people, give people that impression, warm them up, why that’s important, what size should you be as you consider these different methods of warming somebody up because some of these methods require expense and time. If you’re brand new directly into real estate, probably not for you. Some of these touches require nothing at all and might be interesting to some of you. We’ll be right back. We’re going to go to a break.


[00:18:47.540] -Robert Newman

I want to thank InboundREM and MailRight for sponsoring today’s show. They’ve been very generous to us. If you’d like to check them out, you can go to mail-right. Com or inboundREM. Com. If you do us all a favor and tell our sponsors how much you appreciate the content of the show today, we’d love you for it. All right, we’re coming right back at you. Three, two, one. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Mailright Show. Today’s subject is talking about how to turn cold leads hot, effectively. That’s what we’re talking about, taking a cold lead and make it hot. We’re going to I believe you, prior to the break, I was talking about, and John was talking about, things to warm leads up. And I was talking about, John did a pretty deep dive into psychology, which is interesting because that’s not usually a journey that you’ve taken us on too often.


[00:19:45.220] -Jonathan Denwood

So we’re-Oh, there’s many facets of me that I haven’t shown you, Robert.


[00:19:49.750] -Robert Newman

I have no doubt. So we’re going to talk about hot leads, how to personalize outreach. So why don’t you jump into that? Because all the research and background. So what were you thinking when you put down… I’m going to let you get into it.


[00:20:08.330] -Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, before that, I think there’s two things that I think… There’s two words I I call it pulsation and oscillation. I found, and I think you’ve hinted on this, that I have people that book a consultation with me, and we have a good chat, and then I don’t hear from them for months. Then they come back for a second consultation, and then they go away. I had one this on Monday. She must have spoken to me on three occasions over a year, and she gets very enthusiastic. Then she doesn’t follow through, and I think I’ve lost her, and she comes back again. If you’re really desperate for a sell, you really worry about this because you think, Well, I’ve got to convert. If you push that, I don’t know if you agree. I’d be interested in to see if you agree with this. But if you really push it, you’re going to lose them. I find it’s best to leave it and let them stew and just keep on producing value content. And some of them don’t come back, but a lot of them do. And there’s a certain… I didn’t realize they’re on this journey.


[00:21:37.180] -Jonathan Denwood

That’s the key of it. I used to try and force it, Rob. I didn’t accept they’re on the journey. And if you force But if they’re in the wrong point of the journey and you try and force it, I don’t think it works out that well.


[00:21:56.320] -Robert Newman

I agree. I I think that forcing people generally creates resistance. Resistance is not what you want. Most of my sales presentations that I design are designed with a simple concept but require a high degree of expertise. The concept is take all the objections that you know you’re going to get, which means you have to know what objections you’re going to get, and you answer them in your presentation. So theoretically, that by the time you’re done, nobody has any objections left. It comes down to the mechanics of, one, did you see the value? Two, if you did see the value, did you want to move forward? And three, if you don’t want to move forward, I don’t really personally take all that many objections anymore. I don’t respond to them. If somebody says they don’t want to move forward, I go, Great, here’s my information, and you can go your way and I’ll go mine. I find that that lack of interest, that seeming like lack of pursuit, is a reverse psychology mechanism that is as effective as any sales closing strategy I’ve ever gotten. My lack of interest and my lack of pursuit in leads oftentimes creates a sense of we don’t need the business, which means people want to give it to me more.


[00:23:10.420] -Robert Newman

Why doesn’t this guy need the business? Why does he need chasing me? The answer is pretty simple. Number one, I generally don’t need the business. Number two, the reason I don’t need the business is I’ve been so successful with the sales strategies that I have that I usually have enough people in the queue. I also do forced scarcity as part of my sales strategy and marketing strategy, and I understand it very well. I keep a team big enough on staff to scale up, but only slightly. So if we have a slightly bigger sales month than we were expecting, one or two additional clients, we run out of room to do projects. There’s no joke. That’s not me bullshitting. So unless I want to scale up, take on more people, train more people, we’re done. And I just say, Hey, we’re at capacity.


[00:23:51.850] -Jonathan Denwood

And that at capacity- And there’s the other factor, and I think agents, you got to face it, is, and it might become more prevalent, is I think Mailright and my other business offers great value, and we offer a lot of options. But there are a lot of people who get fixated. They’re looking for a certain level of outcome, a certain level of website, or a certain level of service, and their budget doesn’t meet their fixation about a certain level they’re looking for. And there’s no… Their expectation is linked to the budget which they’ve got. It’s so different to What? There’s no possibility of negotiation because what they’re seeking for what they’re prepared to pay for it is so out of kilter to what I could provide that there’s no meeting place to it. They just have to go to other providers or try other things and not get a lot of success. Then they come back, hopefully. Or they might be lucky and they might get successful, aren’t they?

[00:25:19.340] -Robert Newman

That is one of the things I love about inbound marketing. My job, my funnel to warm my leads up is to take the uneducated purchaser of services like mine and educate them. If they follow along with my content, eventually they arrive at my doorstep, educated in what is a reasonable expectation. Takes a lot of work and effort to produce content like that because you generally have to show people a lot of proof in today’s world. You can’t just say, You can just randomly expect this from BoomCat. They don’t believe you. They won’t believe you because you’re a competitor. You got to show them, have a login, look at the leads, talk to customers, do all that stuff. But once you do that, your client gets educated by you, which builds up trust. You answer the question. By the time they walk through the door, they have a reasonable expectation. But I do find that the sales call that I find hard for me to take, John, respond coldly to an email. They don’t do any research. They don’t watch any of my videos. They simply get an email from me that they barely I don’t even remember how they got on my email list.


[00:26:32.150] -Robert Newman

Then they call me because I happen to have the perfect subject line for them. Now I’m on the phone with somebody who doesn’t know me, doesn’t know what we do, doesn’t know what the pricing is. Just like, I want leads. Some of the time, they do want you to wave a magic wand and put warm leads into their inbox. If they could get it, they would go, I’ll give you $100. Give me five highly qualified leads. Thank you. And you’re like, Are you kidding me? I get you.


[00:27:00.480] -Jonathan Denwood

No. But get on to the specifics, but I thought that I should point that out. But I’m talking about the warm. They’ve got into your funnel by advertising, by content marketing, They’ve seen you on Instagram. They’ve come across one of your videos. The way you keep them from making warm is through your newsletter, through the videos you the stuff you put on Instagram and all the ways that you might touch them these 5-10 times on their seller or buyer journey. It could be In your newsletter, there will be a deal of a week, a property that you think would be interesting to your list, and then you can make a video of it, which then you share on your Facebook and Instagram, the news of the real estate market, a monthly synopsis of where the local market is because real estate is local. So that has value, and it also increases that you’re seen as the professional that has an interest in the market. You’re not just one of those who just want the commission check. You provide some value. Local things to do, that’s more abstract, but it’s content. And you can also build relationships with other local business owners by doing that.

[00:28:41.940] -Jonathan Denwood

And retargeting is one of the most cost-effective ways. If you’re going through Facebook, or mostly Facebook and Instagram, to some degree, also Google, these are all ways of turning your cold leads into more warm leads. And so they are still engaged with you where they do that outreach, where they give you signs by coming to your website and signing in to do searches and that, and then they’re warm and you do more… You phone them up, you send email, bonbon emails. A lot of agents just don’t understand this journey It’s good, isn’t it, Robert?


[00:29:32.270] -Robert Newman

I agree, and I think that the sooner… Listen, talking about taking warm lead to cold, inbound marketing is all about presenting value, value, value, value, and your main objective as an inbound marketer is just getting people to tune into your content. You’re not encouraging them to call you at any particular time. You’re not inundating them with anything like a request. You’re just saying, Here’s good helpful information. Here’s good helpful information. Here’s good helpful information. If you’re looking for real estate or lifestyle or the best restaurant in the area you’re thinking about moving to, or maybe you’re coming out to this area to explore it slightly. Well, here are some cool schools to check out, some cool parks to go to, and things that I think that you enjoy that is part of the lifestyle. Then, oh, by the way, if you want to talk about houses, I happen to be an expert in colonial or modern, whatever. You talk about, you focus on the useful. That, if people tune into you if they engage, however you get the information to them, whether they subscribe to your YouTube channel, your Facebook, or your email list, or your however, Twitter, whatever it is, as long as they’re tuning in to you and you’re giving them value information, What I hear you describing is the psychological stepping stairs of, I am getting to know you, getting to know you, getting to know you, getting to like you, getting to like you, getting to like you, and now I am perceiving you as a person I’m going to talk to for sure when I get ready to do X.

[00:31:03.550] -Robert Newman

That’s inbound. That’s warming somebody up to the point that by the time they call you, they’re usually better than a referral. Terms of lead quality, ROI, and conversion, they’re better than a referral. It’s an interesting… I love the digital age because it makes inbound marketing infinitely possible, which is a lot of what you’re talking about. But you also can do lead nurturing through low-quality lead acquisition, which is another subject. We’re just considering that introduction differently. And you grab that information, let’s say, off an ad, and then you build the value into the person once you have their information.

[00:31:41.580] -Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I call it becoming the trusted advisor, the trusted individual. There are other morphologies in real estate where they link it, and I find it, maybe because I’m English and the culture that I come from, They move it on to a step where the boundary between becoming a trusted adviser and a personised friend. I find that a bit cringy, I don’t particularly, but I do think it’s really important through this process, this journey, the buyer-seller journey, the hero’s journey, to be seen as the trusted adviser, to be seen as the source of your specialty. I think the agents that can do that in 2024 and beyond are the ones that will in the end be the successes and the ones that aren’t.

[00:32:48.630] -Robert Newman

I agree with you. All right, it’s been an interesting show. Ladies and gentlemen, we hope you enjoyed it. We’re going to wrap up. John, if you were going to have somebody come and try to talk to you about the Hero’s Journey storytelling or how you accomplish these things with Mailright and the various tools that you’ve built, how would they do that?


[00:33:09.650] -Jonathan Denwood

But before that, I think we’ve got to do a shout-out. We love people to join us live on the Mai-lRight Facebook page. I think you share it on your Facebook page as well. Join us live with any questions, or you can go to the Mailright YouTube channel, and you can answer questions. We do this at 2:00 PM Pacific Standard Time every Thursday. And if you got any questions, we will attempt to answer them during the show. And so that should be fun. I get a lot of people on my other podcast now asking live questions, and we love you to join us on the show as well. About Melright, just go to Mail-Right.com. Have a look at some of the websites we’ve done. It’s a great, valued platform. And you also, the website that we build for you, you own it. So that’s great news. Back over to you, Rob.


[00:34:06.310] -Robert Newman

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Hey, listen, if you would like to talk to us and me, specifically, or learn anything about SEO, learn anything about hyper local, learn anything about YouTube, learn anything in general about storytelling or inbound marketing as it relates to real estate, specifically, go to inboundram.com. I have copious amounts of free books, free information, no forms, no lockout, no anything that you have to sign up for. You just go and you should learn everything that you need to know about inbound marketing in 2024. All right, that’s it. Thank you so much, everybody, for tuning in. I appreciate it, and I think John does, too.


The Hosts of The Mail-Right Show

Jonathan Denwood



Robert Newman




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