#389 – Mail-Right Show: Ylopo The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly Review For 2023

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Ylopo The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly Review For 2023

Are you curious about the Ylopo real estate technology platform? Discover how this powerful tool can help your business reach new heights in 2023. Get a comprehensive look at Ylopo with our review of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. From features to pricing, we have it all covered in our thorough analysis. Watch now to learn more about Ylopo and see if it’s right for you!

Episode Full Show Notes

[00:00:11.100] – Jonathan Denwood

Welcome back, folks, to the Mail-Right Show. This is Episode 389. We got a great subject here. My co-host is pumped up. He’s ready to review Ylopo the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. It should be a great show. So, Robert, would you like to introduce yourself to the listeners and viewers?

[00:00:36.540] – Robert Newman

Sure. My name is Robert Newman, ladies, and gentlemen, boys, and girls, listeners of all ages. I’m the founder of Inbound Real Estate Marketing. We are an information-providing service-providing company that focuses on SEO and the idea of attraction marketing. If you don’t know what that is, go to our website and check it out.

[00:00:58.080] – Jonathan Denwood

That’s great. And I’m the joint founder of Mail-Right.com. We are competitors to real geeks or interactive Sierra, all built on WordPress. So, you get a fabulous website, a CRM, and a load of marketing tools all combined in one package. And in this show, as I said, we will be discussing my open. So, Robert, you know a lot about this company, its founders, its people. Where should we start with this quick review?

[00:01:31.780] – Robert Newman

Let us start with my most recent conversation with all the leaders of Y Lopo, Howard Taker, Aaron Franklin, and G. I have met with all three individuals and currently have a meeting scheduled with Barry Jenkins, who is what they call a realtor in residence. But before we dive into that, John, let’s cover the basics of what Ylopo is and what they do because they have grown a lot in the three years since I’ve reviewed them. They now offer four types of leads and five or six different product and service categories. So, let’s cover them quickly and ensure everybody understands. So, when they first started, they had Facebook marketing, and they were throwing people into what would be called a funnel behavioral marketing lead generation system. And it was pretty cool. You generated a lead off Facebook, and they had a system, including a verification process inside the lead part. And they took a reasonably low-quality lead and tried to filter through those and give you decent-quality leads. That’s probably the last time we had a conversation about why local. Does that sound familiar to you?

[00:02:39.240] – Jonathan Denwood

Yes, it does.

[00:02:41.330] – Robert Newman

Okay. So over the last few years, they’ve changed a lot. They’ve added PPC. That’s number one. They’ve added a different type of highly qualified lead generative effort. And I forget they have a word for it, but it’s basically a 21-step questionnaire on their websites that, in theory, is supposed to generate better leads, and it does. And then last but not least, they are beta testing an ISA service that calls all of these leads for you. So they’re creating an end-to-end marketing experience for their customers, very similar to the way that realtors.com has done with opt out of the city; I think it is. And what indeed is doing, what Zillow is doing, the only difference between Ylopo and these companies is while they have every intention of charging more for all these new lead sources, they are not going to take a piece of your deal. Are you still with me? And they still have the same back-end stuff. They have a website that they’ve gotten better at building. They build it on Squarespace. That better building is my opinion. It’s not definitive of anything. Based on what I’ve been seeing, I think they’ve improved over the years.

[00:03:56.360] – Robert Newman

So there are numerous things to review because they’ve got this site that they built, which is how their marketing functions. They throw you into a search function, and that’s how they generate their leads. It’s the search function of their site. Is that what your recollection is, John?

[00:04:15.310] – Jonathan Denwood

Mm.

[00:04:16.230] – Robert Newman

Okay. So that’s how they generate their business. Now, what they surround the search function with the website has changed. Their actual search functionality has really not. So, there’s a lot to update on my last reviews. That’s why we’re doing this. Again, is that we’re talking about all these different changes, and we’re going to talk about my conversation with these guys, and you’re going to throw in any questions that you have and ask me any details you want to ask. But I want to be honest with everybody. The way that this came up is that I did a review, and I pulled out a slightly larger negative element. For everybody listening to this show is the best real estate lead generation company that surrounds a search marketing site. I think the leadership team is not the best, and I include my own in the entire real estate industry.

[00:05:28.530] – Jonathan Denwood

Can you tell me about a couple of things? Because I never watched that video. So I’m going to guess.

[00:05:35.040] – Robert Newman

Sure. Yes.

[00:05:36.770] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I think in metropolitan areas, you’re probably, because of the text messaging and the email messaging; I think in a very competitive metropolitan area, a possible lead might be bombarded by the same different agents utilizing their platform. And also, it’s always a cost-value metric. I’m sure they’re providing value, but they’re on the steeper side of the cost-value metrics. If you’re going to utilize all of the functionality they offer. Would I be right? I’m only surmising this. Are these maybe two of your criticism?

[00:06:28.420] – Robert Newman

No.

[00:06:29.520] – Jonathan Denwood

No? Right, I’m off. That’s good.

[00:06:32.400] – Robert Newman

My criticisms are not about the expense. If you have the revenue, Ylopo is a good option. G has his own series of data that he tracks, John. But when G and I talk, it’s a data conversation. It’s a data analyst conversation. And he did the same thing he has done in all the years that I have not talked to him that many times over the years. I have, however, repeatedly, over significant gaps of time, spoken to G. And when we do, the conversation is always the same. He is remarkably focused on always understanding the numbers underlying the business. His CAC, his customer acquisition cost, is something that… That’s his number. Minus ROI, his customer market, he has a different way of saying the same thing. Return on investment and CAC are the same things. He wants to know how much money it will cost him to acquire a customer for Ylopo and that number, which I don’t know that he ever revealed to me in exactitude; it’s still very competitive. He says they’re widely beating companies like Realtor.com and Zillow, especially when you’re doing a revenue split.

[00:07:46.790] – Robert Newman

I have no reason to think that he is incorrect.

[00:07:50.090] – Jonathan Denwood

I would say he’s probably is correct.

[00:07:53.450] – Robert Newman

Yeah, I have every reason to believe that he is correct. That’s just my opinion. Again, just my opinion. What I originally panned on and I need to attract online is I said that I felt like the motivation was to sell. I can’t reveal it on this podcast or even my own review because I made an agreement with him. But I will tell you this, Sean, the same thing I’m going to tell everybody else when I officially relaunch the review, G was remarkably honest and transparent with where his personal income has come from and what that looked like. And I got to say, it definitively changed my opinion on what their motivation would be because on my review, I said they appear to be building their company up to sell it.

[00:08:38.600] – Jonathan Denwood

And what’s wrong with that?

[00:08:43.130] – Robert Newman

Well, John, this is a question that only somebody who’s only been in this five years would ask. 99 % of the time when a real estate marketing company gets bought, it gets shuttered. 99 %. Somebody bigger is going to buy you, shut the whole thing down. And for those real estate agents and veteran brokers who have been in the industry as long as I have, the frustration is you get something that’s working, you get used to it, you spend tons of time, internal resources, like getting to use the system and use it well, then somebody else buys it and one of two things happens. Either it becomes a ghost ship. All the people that cared about the result are gone. So they just keep with the same system. And inevitably, no exceptions, results decline steadily over time in that case, in the worst case, which has happened many, many times in the real estate business, somebody buys or acquires a division like Bold Leads got bought and they shutter the damn thing. They close it down. So you’re not seeing declined results. You’re seeing no results. That’s what happened. Well, not exactly what I just said, but a similar situation that somewhat broadly fits this definition happened when Howard Taker sold Tiger Leads.

[00:10:03.720] – Robert Newman

So he thought that he was selling to somebody that was going to keep the business in operation. And in good faith, he went to an operating division of the company that bought him, thinking that he was going to have a chance to continue to work on Tiger Leads and build it up. And that’s not what ended up happening because the company that acquired him then themselves got acquired. And effectively, and this is using very extremely broad language, it got ignored. It got deprioritized to such a degree that I don’t want to put words in Howard’s mouth. Let’s put it this way. He eventually left. That’s simply a fact. So so whatever the reasons were and what happened, John, what used to be a big viable company basically got completely disassembled, used only for the customer list and never ultimately followed up on. So all the people that loved and fell in love with Tiger Leeds, no, there is nothing remaining of the system that they spent all their time and energy getting used to working with. Do you see what I’m saying? Do you understand where I’m coming from?

[00:11:14.690] – Jonathan Denwood

Totally. I have a slightly different philosophy around that, but yeah, it’s fine. Would I be correct in saying they integrate with Do they have their own CRM or do they mostly utilize Follow Up Boss?

[00:11:35.020] – Robert Newman

Follow up Boss.

[00:11:35.810] – Jonathan Denwood

Right. So really, they’re focused on curation and doing what Zillow Premier, providing, qualifying the lead to some extent. I think the other thing you mentioned, as we have talked about in the last couple of podcasts, is that they also have automated their video advert around their Facebook, especially their Facebook campaigns. Am I correct about that?

[00:12:12.560] – Robert Newman

You are correct. So without question, when it comes to search marketing, which is advertising in the digital space, by my definition, Jizhi Fung is without question the best operator by many iterations that I’ve ever met inside the real estate space. Just to say that, every time I talk to him, John, he reconfirms his absolute dominance in the space, the way he thinks, the way he meticulously analyzes, reanalyze sees his numbers, the way he multivariate tests with always, constantly testing something new and constantly trying to figure out a way to get already improved on numbers that are the leader in the industry, always. I just talked to him and they’re running… They’ve got four new products in development and obviously I’m a competitor, so he wouldn’t say exactly, but I am strongly under the impression that they’re deep in the idea lab, working on a number of different things. They’re even starting to work on things that I don’t think they have to work on just for the spirit of it, maybe based on some of my comments. So let’s move into that. So ladies and gentlemen, they work on Squarespace. Retraction number two that I have to make is I said this is a cheap never to be owned.

[00:13:28.790] – Robert Newman

Now, what I meant by that, because I didn’t mean it the way that people thought I meant it. I didn’t mean to say that Squarespace is a cheap or low-quality platform. What I meant to say was that it was inexpensive. But Aaron took it as a comment on the quality of the platform. And for what they do, they do a very good job. It’s a simple development and design input that will allow you to do some creative things on the design side. Now, that’s not a content management system project. Aaron gave me a walkthrough of the content management system, and it is ultimately what I thought it was. Simple, straightforward, but it’s really not meant for anybody trying to produce heavy content on the web that is text based, image based, multimedia based, different elements. And they’re working on the speed of the site because it’s a heavy load. It’s Squarespace, which Aaron did acknowledge. But when it comes to being able to design something that looks good and do it efficiently, they do that very well. Now, what I said that has to be retracted, as I said you never own the website.

[00:14:53.150] – Robert Newman

Well, you really don’t. Squarespace does own the site. They take control of the site. But what I got really wrong is that if you leave Ylopo, they let you have your website and take it with you. I did not realize that.

[00:15:03.980] – Jonathan Denwood

Fair enough.

[00:15:04.990] – Robert Newman

So that’s definitely a change in my review. Change in things I’ve said online two or three different times. I apologize to the Wilopo team and I apologize to you, the audience that I got it wrong. The other retraction was the motivation, which I was working my way towards that point. I don’t think that Howard and G are selling the company. And I also clearly indicated that I felt like the logic was absolutely unassailable about what their motivation was. And I got that wrong, John. The motivation for Howard and G right now does really legitimately seem to be to build up the best and biggest real estate marketing company that exists. And they have plans to move into some other directions, which, once again, I was told, but I’m not going to say, and they do seem to be strong ancillary markets that they could possibly move into and do an excellent job at. So that has also changed. Now, having said all of that, we’re going to go to break really quick. John, I’m going to let you take us there. And then I’m going to explain, having said all that, what I feel the current pros and cons are, unless John wants to jump in.

[00:16:15.590] – Jonathan Denwood

Of course, I understand. But I’ll leave it to the beginning of the second half. So, folks, we’ve had a bit of a chat. I think it’s been a good start of our review on Ylopo. We are going to take a break and we’ll be back in a few moments, folks.

[00:16:32.080] – Robert Newman

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[00:16:57.130] – Jonathan Denwood

We’re coming back, folks. We’ve had a bit of a discussion about Ylopo. I think Robert’s provided some great insights. So Robert, I think in some ways because of their background and the quality of the people you’ve been very attracted to them and they do get results. I think I see it as an upper combination of real geeks and bold leads combined with a much better quality of management. That’s how I’m seeing it. But you might disagree on that. And I think also, I think with all optimizations, you’re always looking for that sweet spot where, like the video optimizations, they take listings, they take images, they combine them into a slideshow, they produce the video. So as you know, with your more custom solutions, trying to get agents to do personal videos is a great idea, but it can be painful. So they’ve gone a different route, which they can automate, but still get a decent result. Probably simplifying things a lot, but I’m a simple soul at heart. So what do you reckon, Robert?

[00:18:36.360] – Robert Newman

I reckon that most of what you said, I feel is pretty accurate. I’m going to say that it’s a little unfair to to try to put them into the same category. They really are alone. They have folks in their marketing that are similar. They have search sites that connect. The same thing as Sierra Interactive and Real Estate Webmasters and U and Real Geeks and pretty much everybody. So they have a spoke that is the same as everybody else. Then they have a back end, but Bold Leads does a funnel system based on the Russell Brunson funnel hacks or whatever the hell that company is, that they built that based on his business model. That’s what they had modeled after. But while Oput didn’t do that, they connect Follow Up Boss into the back end. And instead, what they do, and this is where they stand alone, he has taken the best of what’s available, the bleeding edge of all marketing anywhere in the digital space. And then he’s applied it to real estate. That’s what he does. And he’s way ahead of everybody because most people aren’t even do one tenth. They don’t do remarketing; they don’t do behavioral marketing.

[00:19:51.670] – Robert Newman

That’s where those web hooks or hooks someplace inside the search process that generate a marketing response from your tools. In this case, they have an automated text messaging system that they’ve worked on themselves to the point that it’s fair to call it their own brand. It is not fair to say it’s technology that’s synonymous to Ylopo they call it Raya. It’s just behavioral text messaging, and the company called Structurally does that very well. But what they’ve done that’s unique is they layered it into the current offering. And then what they did that was really unique is they also layered in the best search marketing like what Zirple used to do where when you do X, Y happens and it connects you to a listing page and then you send your clients there. So they’ve really taken the very best of four or five marketing companies and applied it to them. And then on top of all that, they’re doing one or two things that nobody else does.

[00:20:48.910] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I don’t disagree with anything you just said. I just got a slightly different flavor to it. I think, like I said in the first half, I think because of the track record and their past history, they’re a quality team. And I do believe they get results. But I also feel, and obviously, listeners and viewers, you’re going to have to take this with a pinch of salt, but hopefully, if you’ve been with us on this journey, this journey of a podcast, you would have come to the conclusion that me and Robert try and be reasonably fair, as fair as we can be, is that I feel that some of their success is also based, which is very good news for them, is a decline in the quality of the results from the competition, if that makes sense to you, Robert. I exclude your company from that, by the way. And I’m not just saying that because you’re on my co-host, I do actually believe that because your segment is a very different focus. But I think, like, Bold Leads got pulled out, but also the actual platform because of what Apple did with their mobile OS that affected Facebook advertising for a period of time, and the market conditions and selling it.

[00:22:20.780] – Jonathan Denwood

I think Reel Geeks provide a great CRM, but I’m not too sure about how effective they are in their paid advertising to get traffic to that website. When it comes to Sarah Interactive, I don’t know enough about how they get traffic to the website and how effective are they in converting it? So I think what I hope for benefits is that… I’m probably waffling now. Did that make any sense, Robert?

[00:23:01.030] – Robert Newman

It did. But I have some commentary here. So for everybody listening to this review, so, Jon, here’s my perspective. To answer something you asked earlier, high cost. Are they high cost? Yes, unequivocably. We were talking about a case study that they had just done, and it was a guy that had 300 accounts in an email account base, and he came into them with a budget of $2,000 a month, and they worked that email account base, and it took about three months to see a return. So they spent six grand to get a return out of a limited email base. And they did get a good return, strong ROI. But how long could they keep it up for? Is he going to go a whole entire year, two years at $2,000 a month with what was basically a remarketing campaign to lead invigorating campaign from an existing email list. So I’m going to say to you and everybody else, Ylopo is the very tip of the spear, they are the most expensive and the best at what they do, which is search marketing advertising campaigns. That’s it. They’re not the best at every marketing. I feel like we lead SEO and inbound marketing as an example.

[00:24:14.220] – Robert Newman

John may very well lead his category in a certain price point because he.

[00:24:19.920] – Jonathan Denwood

Does everything. I do honestly think we offer really great value at a certain clientele at a certain price point, Robert. I do honestly believe that. I might be deluding myself, but I do honestly believe that, Robert.

[00:24:33.370] – Robert Newman

Yeah. So that could very well be the case to let everybody decide for themselves. I like your offering. So let’s just say that.

[00:24:40.820] – Jonathan Denwood

It took me a long time to work out what we were offering and who we were offering it. Probably, I should have done it a lot quicker, but I’m running two companies, but I am spiritually much more happier where we are and who we are trying to pitch to, if that makes sense, Robert.

[00:25:01.300] – Robert Newman

That makes all the sense in the world. Now, because I’m ADD and I’m having a hard time going back and forth, guys, I’m going to wrap this up with with Ylopo. So who is for, in my opinion? Number one, they’re a leader in their category. I do not think they’re selling the company, which changes my overall opinion about making an investment in them because of reasons that everybody’s super familiar with. And the reason that they were so fast to respond to me, John, is they damn well know, maybe in a way that you do not, what the downside is to saying that they might get acquired. It might very well affect somebody’s opinion with a decent sized budget and a decent sized team and trying to evaluate two companies, it is not an appealing thing to hear somebody say, We’re going to let ourselves be acquired. In theory, you’d think that somebody would keep the doors open and keep the things running. But the practice of that has absolutely positively not been the case in the real estate marketing space.

[00:25:59.900] – Jonathan Denwood

I think that’s partially linked to… I might be wrong here. You are going to correct me. I think a lot of these platforms that have sold, they’ve sold to mortgage people not directly involved in their particular niche. They’re bigger players in the mortgage sector. Am I correct about that?

[00:26:22.620] – Robert Newman

You are. Well, you’re correct in that Fidelity National Mortgage has bought two, a bank, a mortgage bank has bought two of the biggest real estate marketing companies around. So they bought Sink and I think they bought Realtor. Com, bought Tiger Leeds effectively. It wasn’t that clean of a transition, but that’s where it ended up.

[00:26:48.820] – Jonathan Denwood

Who bought Boontown?

[00:26:51.960] – Robert Newman

That would be Inside Real Estate or better known as KV Core.

[00:26:56.380] – Jonathan Denwood

And who bought.

[00:26:58.500] – Robert Newman

Bold Leads? Bold Leads was purchased by a CRM company whose name I’m blanking on right now. They’re not somebody that I’m tracking. That’s why they bought Bold Leads, is that they are a fairly unknown and having had little lead generation capabilities inside their current platform. But we may do a follow up on the next show and I’ll tell everybody who bought that company. But can you guys all get the sense? This is a deeply acquiring type field. And then Tiger Leads, when was bought by Realtor. Com, and here’s what happened to Howard, then what’s his nuts who owns Fox? Rupert Murdoch bought Realtor. Com. Yeah. Okay, so acquisition after acquisition after acquisition. And in all of those acquisitions, each buying entity, buying the company for different reason, that’s why all these places get defuncted. Even sync, which, by the way, is still being run by the two co CEOs that owned it. They, too, I feel have stopped in large degree innovating. I certainly feel comfortable saying they aren’t innovating in the way that they were when they had more at stake. And who knows why that is? Maybe they can’t get the budget, maybe I’m wrong.

[00:28:20.970] – Robert Newman

I don’t know. But that’s what it looks like to me. That’s what it looks like to you, too.

[00:28:25.450] – Jonathan Denwood

Well, I do know a fair bit about the X, I had a client, I did a bit of a deep dive on that system. I learned it. I went through a lot of their lessons. Great. They offer certain volume of a certain type of business. It was a direct competitor with Boometown. And funny enough, Boometown was built on WordPress, Multisite. But yeah, for the right type. But yeah, I’m going off track here.

[00:28:55.080] – Robert Newman

Sorry, Robert. So you agree, though? That’s it. That’s bottom line. Okay. So guys, ultimately, while I say if you’re going to do business with… If you’re comfortable with it, okay, you don’t own the site, but you will control it indefinitely. And that’s great. Okay, you build some value to the URL. It just changes the value proposition, in my humble opinion, with YLO Bo, a lot, the fact that you can walk away with the site. So I am going to say that. But you are still looking at a search marketing, push marketing system. And if you’re looking for that and you need leads faster, if you’re looking defeating a large team, in my opinion, only in my opinion, they’re the best option that you could look at. Now, and they beat everybody. You can ask me about every other competitor. Boom town, like we can do up against Sink. That’s who they feel like they compete the closest with is Sink. And I think that is better than all those systems. And I think you get a better result.

[00:29:49.570] – Jonathan Denwood

And a better cost. I would agree with you. But I also just the competition is a bit… Some of the biggest players is very fortunate for them. It’s great news for them is that some of their competitors because they’ve been bought out and they’re not really… They’re falling asleep a little bit, haven’t they?

[00:30:12.780] – Robert Newman

So here’s two points of a different conversation of opinion and data. And it’s really important that I get this out on the same video. So forgive me, John, but I’m going to dive right into it. I do have a couple of pretty significant cons. Now, one of the things, which once again, I won’t reveal in detail, but I will say this, I also said that is oversold. They definitely are one of the largest real estate marketing companies by customer volume. And G did reveal those numbers to me. So I have confirmation. I know for sure that that is the case. But G did give me what he considered to be on a transactional, like a statistical level, what he considers to be oversold. That number is 25 % of market penetration. I feel like that was an incredibly high number. That means.

[00:31:01.410] – Jonathan Denwood

That.

[00:31:04.250] – Robert Newman

One out of our four search marketing results in the market would be what he considers to be what they’re aiming at is over penetration. And on that level, they have 20 percent market’s where that’s already happening. Now, I think that’s a ton inside the search marketing space. I would say you would be dealing with a competition in an uncomfortable way. A 10 % penetration. So 25 % is extreme. In my opinion, I just disagreed with the way that VG was viewing market penetration. But I do feel like they are forced into that category because they need to keep growing. So they’re going to keep penetrating into the markets. And if they do, my original comment, which I am not necessarily retracting, I’m just qualifying, they are oversold. They can be oversold in your market. You need to check. You need to ask. If you do call them, if you listen to this review and you say, Oh, wow. Robert said they were… Or John and Robert both gave these guys high marks. Well, with a lot of qualifiers, because if you’re going into one of these markets that is widely penetrated, paying two, three, $4,000 a month to get into it, and now you’re up against two or three people who are telling you, listen, lead value disintegrates.

[00:32:24.570] – Robert Newman

I don’t know if he has done any particular studies on if people are doing as good of a cack in his highly penetrated markets, but I would suspect that the answer is no. And even if I am wrong, there is no doubt that you have to have additional systems and responses in place for people who feel like they’ve seen the same ad right down the street from somebody else, which, by the way, is 30 of the customers that I talked to, which was one of the things we talked about was churn. I’ve been getting told over and over again on the phone that people feel their own customers feel like they are oversold. And when G and I talked about churn, what is acceptable churn? The answer, which, again, I won’t reveal directly, but it’s a big number. And I’m talking to a lot of those people. So I feel like if you have the bad fortune to be in a market that they’re fairly penetrated in and you stand a relatively high chance of maybe running into something that you would feel is not a great marketing situation. And last but not least is the idea of expense versus return, ownership versus control, and ownership versus handing the reins over to another company.

[00:33:33.860] – Robert Newman

They did a lot to convince me that they’re not going anywhere, that this company will remain in place, and that their objective is to grow the company. And I believe they’re trying to build the best culture and company inside the space. No doubt about it. I think that’s what they’re making a stab at doing. And all the guys are super committed. So I will say that. But at the same time, ultimately, it is a marketplace, and their objective over time is somebody… Well, let me retract that; not objective. But if somebody came in with a high enough offer, they would sell the company. That’s basically said at the end of the day, all businesses are for sale. I disagree with you on that, too. I don’t think that my business is for sale at any price. So kids are. So there’s something to be said about that. So every time you’re building a company with this entrepreneurial spirit, you have to ask yourself the question, I feel like these guys put so much work, blood, sweat, and tears that they’d stay with Ylopo They’d work that into the deal.

[00:34:37.260] – Robert Newman

I want to say that clearly. To be fair to the situation, I also want to say that there’s still some extremely high price tag somewhere up in the stratosphere that they would sell under. And then if they didn’t go with the company if for some reason that didn’t happen, if G and Howard and Aaron are not there, there is no doubt in my mind that the value of is gone with them. I thank you for letting me have the floor for a second there.

[00:35:06.880] – Jonathan Denwood

No, it’s great. It’s time to wrap it up. Hopefully, you got some value from this conversation. It’s been fantastic. I love these deep dives. Hopefully, you do. If you do, please give us some feedback. Leave a message on the Mel Wright YouTube channel or Inbound REM’s YouTube channel. Send us an email. So Robert, what’s the best way for people to learn more about you and what you’re up to, Robert?

[00:35:34.690] – Robert Newman

If you want to contact me, everybody, use Robert@inboundrem. Com for email. And if you’d like to do casual research into who we are, go to inboundrem.com. That’s INBOUNDREM.com. Thanks, Jon.

[00:35:50.910] – Jonathan Denwood

And please give us some feedback about what you want us to cover. I think we got some guests coming up. I managed to rattle up some guests, but we’d still be doing some of these internal shows. But send us some topics you’d like us to cover. That would be great, either for Robert or for myself. And if you want to contact me, the best thing is to go to the Mel hyphen Wright. Com website, or you can email me at Jonathan, J O N, A, T, H, A N@ Mail-right.com. And anything you want us to cover, we’d be more than happy to do that. We will return next week with another great interview or internal show. We’ll see you soon, folks. Bye.

[00:36:33.580] – Robert Newman

Bye.