#318 Mail-Right Show Real Estate Agents Here’s Why Marketing Is So Important!
With Special Guest Brad Sugars Founder at ActionCOACH
Professionally, nobody has created a bigger impact on Brad Sugars‘ life than Jim Rohn. As a teen, Brad scrimped and saved his allowance in order to afford tickets to a Rohn seminar, and despite being the youngest person in the audience, what he learned there has informed his own business practices and philosophies throughout his life.
Robert Newman: Welcome back to the Mail-Right Show ladies and gentlemen today’s episode is number 318. We’ve done this 318 times today we are really super excited to have Brad Sugars with us who is the CEO and founder of ActionCOACH. I would normally do my big rundown, but John has cut me off the last couple times. So Brad, I’m gonna hand it over to you and just ask you to introduce yourself to our audience.
Brad Sugars: It’s interesting, I believe this is the second time we’ve done this together guys, so.
Brad Sugars: Yeah, It’s like, do we need to reintroduce? Yes, we should. I’m most known as the CEO and founder of ActionCOACH, cause we’re the biggest business coaching company in the world about, really now just over 1100 offices in 83 countries, teaching business, coaching business owners, and C level executives on how to do better business. So that’s sort of where I get most known that and the books after 17 books, four best sellers, you kind of, some of them get sold out there. So I ran into some, the other day said I got all 17 of your books and it was like, yeah, you are the one. Thanks.
Robert Newman: That’s pretty brilliant. So today we’re gonna, and John, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself and I’ll talk about what we’re gonna talk about.
Jonathan Denwood: Thanks Robert. I’m the founder, of Mail-Right. We build great-looking websites, on WordPress that you’re not leasing. You own it. Plus we got a suite of tools that will get you quality leads back over to you, Robert.
Robert Newman: So we are lucky to be speaking to somebody who’s helped hundreds, if not thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of people build businesses. That’s something that Brad has done in his current role, as the CEO of ActionCOACH. So he’s agreed to talk to us today about first, why marketing is so important. And then second, just to build up the anticipation a little bit, we’re also gonna talk about the difference between being an employee and an entrepreneur, which are both subjects he’s talked about a lot and has agreed to talk to us today. So why don’t you kick us off with, why you feel marketing is so important, Brad?
Brad Sugars: Well, let’s start with what the definition of marketing is. Or my definition of marketing. I always see marketing as the profitable buying of lifetime customers. So when we use those terms and we sort of break it down. Profitable, meaning the amount of money we put into marketing is less than the amount of profit we make out of the sales or lifetime sales. The second part buying customers wrote a whole book on that one. Now on its second release. But the point of that is if I put a thousand into advertising or marketing and I get 10 new customers, I just spent a hundred dollars to buy each one of them. You have to buy customers if you want growth, you can’t just expect them to show up. You’ve gotta do the marketing to buy the customers. and whether that’s your website as Jonathan talks about all the time that, your website is buying customers, how much money you put into SEO, how much money you put into Google ads? All of these different aspects is buying customers.
And then the lifetime aspect, you’ve always gotta consider the lifetime value of a customer. Yes. They only make a real estate transaction every three to seven years, but the average person has forgotten the realtor that sold them the house by the time they go to sell it and they start looking elsewhere. So, you’ve gotta make sure we’re on that lifetime thing. Where Jonathan and I was doing a chat the other day. We’re talking about what I call, raise your hand marketing. And this is where a lot of people, they don’t get social media marketing, right. So instead of like, they just got a new listing and they think that, the most important thing is to throw that listing up on their social media and let everybody take a look at these beautiful photos.
No, your job is to find out who’s interested. Your job is to find out who’s interested in buying. Who’s interested in buying right now to get them to raise their hand. So what if, instead of just throwing that listing up, Hey, just listed a beautiful four bedroom home in X, Y, Z suburb. It’s priced around this. If you wanna see the pictures, I haven’t put them up yet, but type four bedroom below and I’ll get you on the link as soon as I’ve got it up. And so, you get 10 people put their, first of all, it affects the algorithm because you’ve got 10 people typing their name below or typing something below that you reply to. But you’re also getting the people to raise their hand that are interested. So now you can have conversations. The opening of conversations is a big part of what social me media is today.
That’s where most people fail. Because if you look at marketing, it’s about target offer and copy. Who’s your target audience, what’s your offer. And then what’s the languaging and the wording and the pictures that you use to do that. What’s missing in about 99% of social media post today is the offer. There’s no call to action. There’s no, connect with us if you want this free report. Hey, just finished my latest webinar, like when this podcast is finished, guys, my team will put this podcast up, not by putting a link to the podcast. They’ll put up a thing. Hey, just did this amazing podcast with Robert and Jonathan. You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff we got to talk about in there about marketing and about the difference between being an employee and being an entrepreneur, such phenomenal questions the guys ask if you’d like a copy, DM me your email, or shoot me your email or type, podcast below.
And all of a sudden I’ll get a hundred people asking for the podcast. I’ll shoot. ’em a note saying, Hey, send me your best email that we can send it to. Boom now I’ve got their email address. I’ve got them following me on social media. I’ve got, ’em connected. I’ve kicked up the algorithm on my post. And yeah. Okay. Some people might not do that, but at least I’ve now got a hundred conversations going that I didn’t have the day before. And I’ve got people interested in those sorts of things.
Robert Newman: So if you were going to talk to any new business owner, anybody at all that that owns a business of any kind, cause that’s gonna be a theme I’m gonna hammer home this particular show. Because I believe strongly that real estate agents are business owners. I think that John and I don’t talk about that nearly enough. That’s a starting philosophy. So you’re a business owner you bought in. You’re like, okay Brad, I hear you. You’re absolutely correct. I need to buy my customers. I’ve read all 17 of your books. Yes I’m the guy. So how much would you, cause you also own a business. You own more than one. If I remember correctly from our show like a year ago.
Brad Sugars: Oh, that was 9 a year ago it’s 11 now. So yeah. I keep actually I sold one and bought three, so.
Robert Newman: Okay. All right. So then my question to you is how much do you set aside for marketing? Like how much as a small entrepreneur getting something started as an established entrepreneur, trying to run something and make it bigger. How do you do that?
Brad Sugars: So let’s go back the other way. Let’s start with the end in mind. We don’t set a marketing budget. We set goals for our business. So let’s imagine you want to, acquire, I don’t know you say you wanted to acquire 10 customers a month. Cause that was the ideal number for your business. Where I learned this when I used to have a dog food business and we put a new van on the road, each van could handle 60 customers in its first week and then 60. So I had to buy 60 customers to get that van operational.
So let’s imagine for your business, you wanted to buy 10 new customers a week. This is how you start working, what the budget needs to be. So your 10 new customers, how many conversations do you need to get 10 new customers? So let’s imagine you need 20 conversations to get 10 customers, your conversion rates, 50% type thing. So then you work out well. Okay. What does it take for me to get 20 conversations? To get 20 conversations I need 40 people to actually raise their hand or write in or call in or do something. So, okay. I got to get 40 people to raise their hands and identify themselves as a prospect for my business. To get 40 raised hands, I need to do 30 ads or I need to do 20 posts or I need to have this, this and this.
So you work your way backwards from the actual number. You need to what you need to do. And let’s say to get– you work out that every time you run an ad, it eventually ends up in one sale. So you sit back and you go, okay. So If I want 10 new customers, I gotta run 10 new ads, an ad cost, a thousand dollars. So I gotta have 10,000 out in order to bring in 10 new customers. Now in an ideal world and I go back Robert to my dog food business in my dog food business, our brand new customer spends $108 with us on the first sale. So first sale was six weeks’ worth of dog food. Then we, redelivered every six weeks. Okay.
Outta that $108 $38 was gross profit to me. All right. So how much could I afford to spend to buy customers? If I wanted to make a profit on the first sale, $37.99. Now I was buying customers and my radio ads, bought me customers for $24. My newspaper ads were buying me customers for around $28. So different things were buying me customers, but every time if I put out 24 on a radio ad and I got back 38, how many radio ads do I wanna run? As many as I need to, to get my 60 customers if that makes sense.
So it it’s that philosophy of, instead of thinking about what does my marketing budget need to be? How much growth do I want to have? In order to attain that growth I need X number of leads, X number of conversations, Y number of prospects. To get Y number of prospects I gotta do ABC and D and, that’s where your budget comes from. So it’s really about beginning with the end in mind, as Covey used to teach us.
Robert Newman: Yeah. Or Zig Ziglar before him with breaking it down to the ridiculous, which is exactly what you just did step by step. As a matter of fact, that reminds me very much of something that I paid a lot of money back when there were still cassette tapes. I paid a ridiculous amount of money to listen to that exact thing that you just did on a podcast for free.
Brad Sugars: The interesting thing behind that is I still have tape sets in my, museum at my office of the old, my original tapes that I bought. So, there you go, the 50 plus crowd that had tape cassettes. I tell my kids, oh, it was on a CD and they look at me, what’s a CD? It’s a round iPad.
Robert Newman: Right, right. John?
Jonathan Denwood: Yeah. I totally, obviously it was fantastic to listen to you to say that Brad, because your knowledge is so evident. If you were real estate– let’s say you lost everything, something happened and you had like $5,000 in your bank account and you just had to start over again and you decided you’re gonna be a real estate agent. let’s say you got 5, 10,000 in your bank account and you got registered and you are a real estate agent and you’re looking at your–
Brad Sugars: So I gotta use half of that to go and get the training and get my license. Absolutely. So there’s that part done? I’m already done. I’ve blown the 5 grand on my training and all of that sort of stuff. What I would, first of all do is I’d move to the richest area in town. That would be the first thing I would do, cause I’m not gonna sell, a hundred thousand dollar homes I’m gonna sell a hundred million dollar homes that’s my goal. First and foremost, if I go into any business, I wanna be the highest priced person in town. I wanna be making the most for every deal I do. Cause you can sell a $2 hamburger or you can sell a $20 hamburger, which one do you wanna sell? They’re still hamburgers the food cost is gonna be double for a $20 hamburger than it is for a $2 hamburger, but you’re gonna make so much more profit. So that’s the first thing I’m doing.
Second thing I’m gonna do is I’m gonna get out there and network my tail off. I’m gonna go and meet every single person I possibly can. Hopefully if everything went to the toilet and back, from a financial viewpoint, I didn’t lose my wife and I’d make sure my wife was out there networking her butt off and getting me as many leads as she could as well. I would make sure my kids were in a school where I could network my tail off as well, because I would know that the more people I know, the more chance I have of getting a listing.
The next thing I’d be doing is I’d be writing some books or recording some videos or doing some stuff to create content online. What most real estate agents don’t get is that you need to be an expert in order for people to trust you. You want people to trust you, be the expert, be that person that everyone can go to. You don’t have to create content around real estate. You can create content, like I live here in Las Vegas, a good real estate agent will have a website that they will have created. And most probably Jonathan, you are on WordPress?
Jonathan Denwood: Yeah.
Brad Sugars: yeah, I, would’ve probably also gone to WordPress school cause I’d lost all five grand in my training. Couldn’t afford Jonathan yet, but I would go out there and learn WordPress.
Jonathan Denwood: Oh we’re very reasonable for–
Brad Sugars: That’s what I’d do, John, I’d take my five grand. I’d invest in a WordPress website with you. That’s what I’d do.
Jonathan Denwood: You are very wise Brad, I am warming to you as the could go by.
Brad Sugars: He’s gonna cut that segment out of this video and place that on his website.
Jonathan Denwood: Great minds work alike.
Brad Sugars: So I would create a blog and I would be doing a blog every single day. If I was in Las Vegas, It’d be, the 20 things you need to know to move to Las Vegas, 10 best schools in Vegas, the hundred best streets in Vegas, the four best suburbs in Vegas. I’d be doing that as my blog. now, every social media that I do, I would be putting a social media post up, Hey, just finish a blog on the 10 best places to have a birthday for your kids in Las Vegas, type birthday below if you want the link. That way I’d be getting more and more and more people. I want everyone finding me when they’re looking for things in Vegas. Cause people don’t look for real estate just on its own.
If I’m moving to a city, which the vast majority of real estate transactions in many states today are people moving to the city. If you’re not providing me with information. So I don’t look up the city, I don’t just look up real estate. I look up the 20 best suburbs in that city. I look up the 10 best schools in that city. I look up, you know what I mean? I’m not just looking up that thing. So when you want a prospect to find you, what you do is you think in the mind of the prospect. What is the prospect actually contemplating? Now I break it down into three different things. First of all, name the prospect. Okay. Name, the type of prospect that you have. Is it a doctor? Name, the exact– is it an investor? Is it a moving into town person? Name that prospect.
Like for me as a business coach, teaching people business, I might do a piece of content just for medical doctors. Just how to run your practice-type thing. I might do something just for realtors, how to your real estate business type thing. And so you name the audience.
The second thing is, think of the problem of your audience. What’s the audience’s biggest problems. What are the top 10 problems right now that people are finding in real estate and think of those top 10 problems. I wanna write a blog post. I wanna create a video. I wanna create content around all of that material right there. And the third thing is, think of the benefits of what people are looking for in your market right now. What are the things they’re looking for as a benefit to your product? What are they searching for that they want? Again, I want a blog post. I want content on that and we can get to all the types of content I would create in just a moment.
I would also, Jonathan, if I lost all the money, I’d train my kid in how to make videos and edit videos on their iPhone. Because I need a ton of video content to come up. I’d train another kid how to use WordPress. Luckily I got five, five of the buggers. So the kids would all be working for me.
Jonathan Denwood: Got your old Aussie football team there.
Brad Sugars: Not quite enough, but we’re getting close to a cricket team. So what I would then do with all of those things, I would reverse engineer them. I’d go onto Google analytics and say, here’s the 20, here are the 10 problems my customer is looking for. I put those into Google analytics and search. And what are the things that people are searching for on this subject? And Google will give me another 10 things to write blog posts or do videos about, okay. And I’ll reverse engineer the benefits and I’ll do that.
I will then go on and I’ll pull up some software and I’ll go onto YouTube and I’ll find my 10 biggest competitors and find out what videos of theirs are blowing up on YouTube and what are they doing? What subject are they doing? And I’ll do a video on the exact same bloody subject. I’ll name it, the exact same thing they did. I don’t care. I will look up the subject. I will make the same video. Cause if that video’s blowing up its because that subject is blowing up and people are searching that subject. And my video can be there the same as anyone else’s video can be there.
I won’t put too much effort into Twitter or Instagram or those things. I’ll put more effort into things that last forever. My blog, my YouTube and my Pinterest, because those things last forever and are searchable. All of the others are a waste of bloody time. Because they’re gone in 24 hours. They’re not a waste of time, but you know what I’m saying? They’re gone in 24 hours, non-searchable wouldn’t use them. Don’t want to be a part of it. So reverse engineer that gives me now a hundred topics to write on, right? I’ve got a hundred topics.
I’m gonna do an eBook. I’m gonna do a guide. I’m gonna do an infographic. I’m gonna do a white paper. I’m gonna do a blog article. I’m gonna do a video on it. I’m gonna do the 11 things you gotta think about. If you want this, I’m gonna cut those 11 things up into 11 different things. I’m gonna make memes out of every video I did. What else am I gonna do? I’m gonna put on a events. I’m gonna teach people stuff. I’m gonna do webinars. And then I’m gonna put the recording of the webinars up there. I’m gonna appear on podcasts and pretend I know what I’m talking about. Cause I’ve just started out I don’t really know what I’m talking about, but I’m gonna pretend I do. I’m gonna start a newsletter. Is that enough?
Jonathan Denwood: I think, I think so you have just given, in 10 minutes, I think we can shut the podcast down. [Interposed talking19:23 ]
Brad Sugars: Mic drop moment.
Robert Newman: That was a mic drop moment.
Jonathan Denwood: I think we need to go for our break. Robert and you put in your question.
Robert Newman: Well, he kind of answered it, but all right. So, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning in whatever you’re watching us on, whatever you’re listening to us on. We’re gonna ask that you, give us a like, or give us a comment if you don’t like what we’re doing. I don’t know how you couldn’t like what Brad just did there, but hey, what do I know? We’ll see you in a moment.
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Robert Newman: Welcome back ladies and gentlemen to, the mail right show episode number 318. If you missed us before the break, Brad just literally told us how to start any business in any market statement, almost full stop. But we did direct it to a real estate agent. So if you miss the first 20 minutes of the show, we highly recommend that you go and you catch them. You watch it, you listen to it on your podcast. Whatever it is. We’re back and I’m gonna redirect the conversation to one of my personal favorite subjects, which is basically a mindset subject of the difference between being an entrepreneur versus an employee. Now, just to refresh your memory, because this is a two-year-old piece of content that you did, Brad. I found this under the apprentice, billionaire the subject.
Brad Sugars: That, podcast was a lot of fun doing that one. So that was good.
Robert Newman: Yeah. And so I’m basically just asking you to talk to our real estate audience and say, I don’t even know what was on that podcast. I’m just curious to know, how do you address the mindset of working for a broker and letting them take your percentages all the way up through, keeping as much of your own money as possible, thinking like a business owner, how would you either advise somebody to do that? How would you do that? And obviously, you just told us how to start the business. So we don’t need that, but how do you get yourself there mentally? Do you think?
Brad Sugars: Well, let’s start with the first philosophy that we lead off on that one. And that is that if you’re not building your own dream, you’re being paid to build someone else’s let’s start there. Look ultimately deep down we have an entrepreneurial flair inside all of us. The question is, do we actually take advantage of that entrepreneurial flair? Do we actually, water that and fertilize and grow that desire to be an entrepreneur and work for ourselves, or do we push it down and do we keep it locked under lock and key? And it’s safer doing this. It’s safer doing that. Oh look, it’s easier here. It’s not as hard.
Here is problem. Okay. Number one. Number one. You’ve gotta build wealth. Your job is not to just make an income. Your job is to build wealth. Having a job you never actually build wealth for yourself. You never build an asset. The business is an asset that you are working your entire life to build. And so that asset’s construction comes from building a business that works so you don’t have to. Building a business that makes money for you. The entrepreneurial mindset and we go through three layers. We go through the employee mindset, the manager mindset, and the business owner mindset.
In my book, billionaire training, I actually walk people through all of the levels, take them right up to the level of entrepreneur. And there’s a difference. A business owner owns one business and entrepreneur owns multiple companies and buys and trades in companies. A big difference. But when we come to being a business owner and I think that it’s really important to understand, you have to learn it. You can’t just like you go into the profession of real estate. You spend 10 years learning real estate. You spend 10 years getting good at it. Getting good at sales, getting good at all of the things real estate. You wanna be a business owner that’s another few years of learning to do.
See business, doesn’t get easy you gotta get better at business. When I coach people, I don’t coach them in their trade or in their skill. I coach them to become business owners. Cause when we go through the level, so your first layer of business ownership is actually I take people right back to when you’re a student. As a student you’re at level minus one on the entrepreneurial scale. Minus one, because a student costs money it’s a negative. You’re actually a blight on society or your parents, someone’s gotta cough up the dough for you to learn stuff.
Now, finally, you become an employee. You’re actually now able to pay your way and you’ve gotta pay some taxes to pay back all the money that has been invested in you so far. So far society has given 20 years of paying for your stupid stuff to learn great societies now you gotta give ’em some money back. That’s what being an employee is. So what’s your job as an employee, your job as an employee is you’re an apprentice business owner. You’re an apprentice. A school student is an apprentice employee. That’s what you are. You’re an apprentice employee. You’re learning how to be an employee. Once you’re an employee, you’re an apprentice business owner you are learning how to own your own business.
Now, when you own your own business, do you need to know sales? Yes. Do you need to know marketing? Yes. Do you need to know systemization planning, recruiting, training. You need to know all these things. So if I was to be an employee, I would want to have a job in multiple areas. I would wanna get a job in sales. So someone pays me to learn sales. I’d wanna get a job in marketing. So someone pays me to learn marketing I’d want a job in finance so someone pays me to learn finance. That’s why your job is not some. The main reason to get a job is not about how much you earn. The main reason to get a job is how much you can learn.
So if I’m in real estate, I wanna go and work for the best broker in town. Now he might take more commissions from me in the beginning. He might take more percentage from me in the beginning, but I’m gonna learn a ton more from the best broker in town than I’m gonna learn from the average broker. Now, if I’m going out there and I find the best broker in high-rise, I can learn more from her than I can from anybody else about high-rise. So I wanna learn everything. That’s what our first few jobs should be. They should all be about learning.
Then you start in your own business. You’re at self-employed level self-employed is like the CSAW of business. Make the sale, do the work, make sale, do the work, make sale, do the work, make sale, do the work. And that’s what you’re doing. You’re on that CSAW time and time and time again. And what are you gotta learn as a self-employed person. You’ve gotta learn all those things. And if you didn’t learn them while you worked for someone else, it’s gonna cost you twice as much and take twice as long to learn them while you work for yourself. So learn them working for someone else. It’s much cheaper. They pay you to become a s**tty salesperson and turn into a good salesperson. That’s the reality of it. That’s what they’re paying you for. And you are learning.
If you’ve got a boss that pays for you to do training, take advantage of every single dollar they’re willing to invest, because that’s building your lifetime. You gotta build you so you can get there. And that’s why I go back the thing. If you wanna change your life, you gotta change your thinking. You wanna change your thinking you better get a new mentor. You better get a new teacher. You better get someone that can teach you this stuff. And if you don’t have someone already, then I’m your person. You don’t have someone else good me. I’m next.
So from self-employed, you gotta go to manager. That’s where you start to employ people that work for you. And in the beginning, they don’t work for you. You work for them because you have no idea what you’re doing. You hire your brother-in-laws next door neighbor’s dog walker son, who’s outta work. You hired the wrong person and you’ve gotta do all of the work to fix all the problems they create. And that’s because you haven’t learned management, you haven’t learned leadership, you haven’t learned systemization, planning you haven’t learned all of these things. And as you learn them all, and this is why your first business is the hardest, because you gotta learn as you go. Why’s your first million, the hardest because you gotta learn to make a million while you’re making your first million. It’s not as complex as people make it out to be, but you gotta learn.
So once you get to manager, then your goal is to become an owner where you build a business that works so you don’t have to. My definition of a business, commercial profitable enterprise that works without you. Because if you have to work in it, you work for an idiot. There you go. So not sure if that answers your question Robert that’s sort of the idea that comes to mind for me. How do you make that shift to be an interesting question?
Jonathan Denwood: well, I think we’re getting close to needing to go to bonus content maybe.
Robert Newman: And I’m gonna say, as we segment onto bonus content, there are two things that you’ve said that I wanna comment on. One is a tip, the trick that my mentor, because you’re talking about mentors, I have a mentor. My mentor taught me a lot about sales. He ended up retiring from the business that I was in with him and he retired very wealthy. He then decided that he didn’t wanna sit around doing nothing, got a real estate license. And he immediately with no pause or pivot started to organically generate high-value leads in Malibu, California for real estate. Now I know how he did that. And you touched on it just briefly. So when we come back from our– Brad are you gonna be willing to stay on the, line with us for another five, 10 minutes here?
Brad Sugars: I got you. I got you guys in the diary for another 15 minutes, so we’re good. `
Robert Newman: All right. So ladies and gentlemen stay tuned for the YouTube version of this to YouTube/Mail-Right Check out the channel. Look at all of our beautiful, tired faces and check us out there. Brad, you are always an amazing guest. Where would you like people to find out more about you? How would you like to direct them?
Brad Sugars: They can go to Bradsugars.com or any social media. But in fact, one of the things I go back to that comment. If you wanna change your life, change your thinking. I put together a 90-day training about business life and wealth. Black Friday just finished, but I’m gonna extend the black Friday deal to all of your viewers. So I will make sure they get that link and I’ll put it on everything that they need.
Robert Newman: Okay. So and how would you want them to reach out to you? Just go to Bradsugars.com and use the contact form?
Brad Sugars: Brad Sugars.com or any social media I’m even on Pinterest these days getting crafty.
Robert Newman: Okay. So guys, when you go to Brad’s social media channel, make sure that you mention the Mail-Right show. So he knows to proffer you that extension on his 90-day program. All right, John, how would you like people to, get in touch with you?
Jonathan Denwood: Oh, just go to the Mail-Right website. We’ve got some great resources on there and book a chat with me, or my partner Adam, and we’d love to help you.
Robert Newman: And ladies and gentlemen, I’ve done every single thing that Brad says. You can find all of my content of which I have copious amounts on my website, inboundrem.com, video content, blog content, memes, you name it, it’s all there. And hopefully, you’ll check me out if you want to, you can reach out to me through my contact form. All right. So, stay tuned. We’ll see you on, the YouTube channel.