#317 Mail-Right Show With Special Guest Brandon Wise The Founder of Wise Agent
With Special Guest Brandon Wise The Founder of Wise Agent
Brandon Wise is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Wise Agent. He is a successful high-tech entrepreneur and industry visionary. He devotes his expertise and leadership to the promotion of innovations and the strategic direction of Wise Agent. Brandon is devoted to building meaningful and long-lasting relationships with his Wise Agent family and those around him. Before starting Wise Agent he was a licensed Realtor selling homes in Scottsdale and Fountain Hills, Arizona.
Robert Newman: Welcome back ladies and gentlemen, to episode number 317 of the Mail-Right show. We’re really lucky to have Brandon Wise for the first time on the show. He is the founder and, chief cook, and bottle washer of the incredible wise Agents. So without any further ado, Brandon, why don’t you go ahead and tell us a little bit about who you are and if you feel like it, what, Wise Agent is?
Brandon Wise: Yeah, sure. So as Robert said, I am the CEO, the founder, and the janitor here over at Wise Agent, everyone here is still a small company. We all play many roles, but, really what, what, Wise Agent is all about, it’s a CRM platform. So the CRM is for contact relationship management, but then we also include all the marketing tools like drip campaigns and newsletters and flyers, and then all the transaction management side where you’ve got your checklists and document storage. Put it all together in a very easy-to-use platform. And then we back it up with amazing customer support, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We actually answer the phone, which is something that definitely sets us apart from most other technology companies.
Robert Newman: So you say you do all of that and you pick up the phone. I’m impressed already. All right the producer of the show, the founder of the show is, John. I oftentimes give him a big windup, but today I’m going to change it up and say John, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself, to the audience?
Jonathan Denwood: Very appreciative of that kind of minor intro. It’s much more like it. Oh yeah. I’m the founder of mail, right. We’re a WordPress-centric company, we produce websites for you that you own. You’re not leasing them. And we got a host of other marketing tools that will help you with your digital online marketing back over to you. Robert.
Robert Newman: Awesome. And I’m a 16-year real estate vet of the real estate industry. And I focus on, SEO and I have a website to inbound rem.com if you want to check me out. With no further ado, we’re going to jump right into it with, Brandon. one of the first questions that we asked and certainly one of my burning questions, and John had the question as well is how do you feel, what is happening in the digital landscape of lead generation today? How do you feel like the lead generation industry is doing as a whole? Like what, are your thoughts?
Brandon Wise: Well, yeah, so lead gen, we’ve seen a lot of change going on. A lot of the systems are kind of changing their models from just selling the leads for a set price to now saying, hey, we’ll give you the leads, but we want a cut of the transaction fees, so just change in models we’re seeing. I just got back from, the NAR national association realtors, the event, they’re a big show annual show in San Diego. And there were a lot of different new lead gen companies popping up. And you saw the old ones there. And then the conversations, they would range anywhere from, talking to people that, hey, I’m using your landing pages to generate my own leads off of writing them on my social media and Facebook, and I’m done buying leads from others.
And then you had had people on the other side saying, I’m just blowing it up by buying all my leads from, X, Y, and Z different companies and running them through the system to help convert those leads into clients. So either way, wherever they’re getting their leads, the one thing that everyone agrees on is it still matters how have you handled leads when they come in? How fast are you getting back to them and what’s your messaging and how consistent are you in getting those messages across. But yeah, there’s a lot, just a lot more choices, I guess, for the lead gen, anywhere from generating your own and to, buying them from all different kinds of setups, depending on if you want to buy them in bulk, or you want to buy them one-on-one or get them free and pay when you, close the transaction,
Robert Newman: Do you have anything? I’m sure that like me, you probably have your fair share of conversations with real estate professionals. When somebody asks you for a piece of advice as it relates to lead generation, what do you tell them?
Brandon Wise: Well, so yeah I love having the conversations with the realtors out there, and it’s kind of what we do and listening to them that’s how we’ve built our platform to be so good is actually listening to our members. But yeah, my advice is absolute whichever style of lead you’re getting, you’ve got to have a plan in action before you start getting the leads in, on what are you going to do with them. So if you’re a single agent, you’re going to have a whole different set of rules on how you’re going to plan to handle those leads then if you’ve got a whole team where you’ve got dedicated people, I’m able to work on it. But either way, I think a big key number one is that wherever your leads are coming from, you want to be able to automatically and immediately get those things to drop into your CRM.
Whether they come in when you’re sitting at the desk, or if you’re out showing houses, you shouldn’t have to worry about, doing import-export leads off of anything else. You should be able to, open your CRM as soon as you get in and see all the leads that have come in since the last time you opened that system. And then taking that a step further, they shouldn’t just be dropping into your CRM. You should pre-think out, hey, when the leads come in from this lead source, how do I want to handle it? What am I going to do? What are the steps I’m going to take to get those leads, to convert from just a lead to actually being a client? And they’re going to be different ways. So for instance, if you’re using, a landing page to capture leads at your open house, instead of having the leads that are walking through an open house, signing out a piece of paper, you might want to have a landing page where they’re signing in on an iPad or a laptop. You can ask them more questions. You don’t have to, but as soon as they hit the button after they sign in, that’s going to be a leader.
And that’s going to be totally different than if you’re buying a lead from say, realtor.com. how do you want to talk to those through your system should automatically, before you ever hold that open house, you should decide, okay, any of the leads I get today, what do I want to happen to those that are coming in? So immediately as they hit that button, I want to send them an email saying, Hey, thank you for coming into my open house. And then that night I might want to have an automatic text message fire off, thanking them again, and seeing if I can help them. And then follow it up with several days of tips and emails and text messages without me even thinking about it, or could it be alerting me to call them on the phone?
And that can be something totally different than the leads I’m buying from offline from, a lead generator that I’m actually paying for the leads. And the cool thing about Wise Agent and surprise, some of the other CRMs is that you can use it to do really, to do split tests or AB testing. So you can decide exactly what do you want to do when these leads come in and you can run different ways. So I’m doing something different with my Zillow leads compared to my realtor.com leads and see which, the method works best for converting more leads and then kind of switch over to that
Robert Newman: Okay. All right. So it sounds like most of your conversations with agents when you start talking about lead generation, you stay away from any particular commentary about how they’re generating the lead for the most part, and start talking to them about speed lead and things like that. Is that basically? That’s what I’m taking from.
Brandon Wise: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I do. I seem to like people have different ideas on how they want to get the leads or what they’re comfortable with or how much they can afford. And so usually by the time I’m talking to them, they’ve figured out where their business is coming from and where their leads are coming from at least. And so that’s where we take it as, okay, now you’ve got the leads, let’s help you get those converted into actual clients.
Robert Newman: Got you. All right. That was extremely helpful. So, John, why don’t you go ahead. I’m getting an echo. John, why don’t you go ahead and get the next question.
Brandon Wise: Yeah sure Brandon I’m not sure if this is kind of the right question, but have you struggled with these expectations of agents around your product? Because it’s, excellent value for what you offer, but I personally have struggled with the expectations of agents or some of them the minority of them. Like you can set up all these automated processes, but in the end, it’s about getting yourself in front of somebody and having a conversation with them fundamentally. And Wise Agent can’t do that? It can help get to that stage, but you still, is that making any sense and how do you deal with expectation?
Brandon Wise: Yeah, sure. I mean, we always go back to the basics just, what we’re hearing a lot of the coaches in the industry talking about and actually picking up the phone and having conversations is a huge piece of it. So, we try to set the expectations of saying the lead management system, the expectation is that it’s going to drip on them, and it’s going to keep your name and your face in front of them to get, get going, but you have to be playing an active role in doing your part too. And part of, part of the drip campaigns. It might be, hey, send them an email as soon as they leave a text message an hour later, and then schedule that phone call for seven o’clock that evening.
So you can put the phone calls or their stop bys the pop bys whatever you want to call it, actually in part of the drip campaign. But then to get the agents to actually do it, of course, that’s a whole nother challenge. But I think when we set them up, they understand they’ve got to play an active role, and it does, to build a relationship it is human to human. We can definitely speed that process up and help a lot with some of the tools we offer. But I think most of them kind of understand you can’t just automate the whole thing. And of course, there’s definitely those that are like what you’re kind of explaining to think, Hey, I should be able to pay for a CRM and then sit back and collect the money. But, it’s not reality.
Jonathan Denwood: Which is fair enough, Brandon, but was that a learning process for yourself about, how you constructed or, managed expectations of what Wise Agent could do. Did you have to find the internal process, the onboarding of people, and the management of expectations?
Brandon Wise: Sure, sure. So, so I guess, flipping it around one of our expectations is, Hey, if they’re going to pay us every month, they’re probably logging in and using all the features. And the reality is that’s not what happens. So we take it a step further. And when someone registers for our system we’re kind of practicing what we preach, we need to start forming a relationship with them. So we’re going to immediately reach out and try to schedule a time when we can do a one-on-one onboarding with them. And then in that onboarding, we’re going to help them get their database in and go through the proper, get, get their leads coming in and set up their management systems, set up the branding, and then try to get them scheduled for ongoing training. So it’s kind of the same thing.
When an agent gets a lead-in, they’ve gotten to have to take an active role of getting, having those conversations until they get them in the car and are driving them around or get it, get a listing appointment. And of course now with, with the technology, it’s getting a lot easier. We know text messaging has taken the lead to a whole different level, because obviously as you know as soon as you send a text message out, the majority of those are getting read in a really short time period. So it’s got almost a hundred percent open rate on the text messages that go out to convert leads versus, emails. People might have emails in there that they never opened, or they go weeks without opening. But so if you can get text messaging as part of, the conversion process and then be active on it, when you send out a text, be ready because there’s a good chance you’re getting get a reply back.
And we definitely set up, some little tips and tricks. Like if you use their name on the text message, you get a much higher, higher level of, or higher number of replies than if you don’t use their names. so we’re gonna let you use automatically pull their first name or pull where the lead came in to make that conversation sound more real when I’m texting you back. And the same thing, if you, end the text message with a question. So if I’m texting Robert and say, Hey, Robert, I saw that, you were interested in that you were looking at houses on my Facebook ad today, or you were interested in whatever I was giving. Can you talk now? I might get a reply back that says, no, I can’t talk now I’m at work. I just wanted to know does that house has a pool on it, but at least it starts the conversation. And that’s what we’re going for with really all this conversion process is, hey, let’s get an actual conversation started. And so then, and I think that’s one of the things that technology is really helping them with and making it a lot easier for them.
Jonathan Denwood: All right I think it’s time for us to go for our break Robert.
Robert Newman: Alright, lovely. So ladies and gentlemen, wherever, you’re seeing us watching us, listening to us, if you do, John and I both, big favor and either like, or comment on your provider’s platform, if it’s offering your review, we’d really appreciate it. We work really hard on the show. We’re trying to give you lots of good value. And if for some reason we’ve missed the mark we’d love to hear that too, so that John and I can take that, put our heads together and try to make a better show with no further ado. We’ll be right back.
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Robert Newman: Welcome back to episode number 317 of the Mail-Right podcast. We’re here with Brandon Wise of Wise Agent he’s been talking to us a lot about, CRM. John was, in the middle of tossing questions. John, were you done, or did you want me to pick it up or did you have another question to add to the conversation?
Jonathan Denwood: Yeah, I’ve just got one other then I’ll throw it back over to you so Brandon I think one of your main competitors has been line desk really. In some ways, obviously, you’ve got your own unique spin on it. But has it been a difficult internal discussion about how much functionality you’re going to put into Wise Agent? Are you, and where you have the boundaries where you’re not going to introduce any more new functionality, because would you agree that there probably is a point where it becomes too bloated, too feature-rich and it then becomes wieldy to actually utilize? Or is it just about just adding as much value to the platform as possible?
Brandon Wise: Yeah, I mean, we have those conversations all the time. I wouldn’t agree that there is that. I mean, you can definitely get to a point where there’s too much if you don’t have the right user interface if you’ve got the right design where everything’s simple, I think you can add the feature, the tools that people want. And so for instance, on ours, we like to really let you customize the experience. So we’re the most integrated CRM out there where we integrate with a lot of the other technology companies out there that we decided, hey, we don’t want to take on that, that task. And these guys are already doing it. Great. So let’s partner with those guys and let’s build that system where it works inside the CRM. So they don’t have to leave that platform. Cause that’s really what people want. They don’t want to be jumping from one system to another.
So for instance, if you’re talking about transaction management, you can use just our own system, or if you go to say, Hey, I want it. I also use Dotloop or SkySlope or zip logics, or, Form Simplicity. We’ve already integrated with each one of those. And so when you turn it on now when you’re, or you’re on your experience, you can that you can use your dot loop and create the transaction and get access to the forms without even going to Dotloop right from the CRM. But if Robert doesn’t use them, he doesn’t have to look at them. So we’re able to take care of adding a lot of features in there that if it’s not something you’re going to use, you only have to see it.
But if there’s another section of members that, Hey, this is the big thing for us, they, then they have access to it. And so of course, everything would get really clogged up and have too much in there if you don’t have the right design. But I think with design and the right user interface, you’re able to kind of handle those things. As far as what should go in? That’s it a whole nother discussion. And of course, every day being a CRM, we’ve got every technology company in the industry wanting to integrate with us. We just don’t have it. There’s not enough developer manpower to do them all. And so we kind of go with the ones that make sense. Absolutely. We listen to our members and what have they been calling saying, hey, you’ve got to have this feature. We’ve got to have that feature. Then, of course, those are the ones that float up to the top.
And then there’s a lot of tech companies that, a lot of the realtors haven’t even seen it. They don’t even know the features are out there yet. So that’s when we see something interesting and we’ll get that integrated and start promoting it. but we’re always definitely aware of how can we fit this in so it’s not going to interfere with people that aren’t going to use that piece, but we’ll make it available to anyone that wants to, and then it’ll have to flow with the rest of the system. And, it’s a challenge we’ve been integrating with these other technologies for a long time.
That was kind of one of the things we saw right away that, Hey, this is going to make sense to start using these other tech companies and bring them in and partnering with them. where a lot of our competitors went and said, Hey, we’re integrated with them all too, but they just use a third party, in the middle called Zapier, or like a pie Sync, which works. But now you’ve got a third party in the middle. So you’re never going to be able to have as good of integration as if we go straight to you and let our servers talk to each other. And then, of course, there’s another problem point in the middle, and someone’s going to have to pay for that third-party technology that’s in the middle of the other two.
Jonathan Denwood: That was great over to you Robert.
Robert Newman: Well, first of all, I want to share a little story, which I, this is one of the very first times I’ve ever run across this, which is kind of funny. A long, long time ago, I’m talking like over a decade ago when I was getting my start in, real estate marketing, I was actually an account executive working for a company called [Inaudible] image. I was still contracting with them, but mostly what I was doing is I was selling for them. And one of the guys that I got on the phone with that I always had a great relationship with, and we always talked about digital marketing was Travis Tom, do you remember Travis?
Brandon Wise: No. I definitely remember the name.
Robert Newman: He’s on your YouTube channel. That’s why I’m asking. Cause he’s there. You did some, somebody did an interview with him, whether it was you or somebody else in your staff. anyway, I see him here under the Wise Agent YouTube channel and it kind of makes me laugh because he and I both had a lot of ideas and a lot of conversation, not the least of them was about CRMs. and I want to say this was 10 years ago, and now here we are talking to the people, making CRMs, and having a completely different conversation with them. Anyway, I just thought it was funny. Sorry, everybody.
I am somewhat curious. So you have a founder’s story on one of your channels and, I’m, I’m looking at your YouTube channel and it goes back a couple of years it looks like, is that right?
Brandon Wise: Yeah,
Robert Newman: no, five years. So five years ago is the very first post. And then you did the whole bunch of stuff three years ago, and then two years ago, a lot of stuff coming in the last couple of years. So did you build the CRM five years ago?
Brandon Wise: No. No. we started building it in 2001. So, we went live and have had people on it in the year 2002. So, we’ve been out there for a long time kind of taking the very slow route of building it from the ground up. We’ve done all the work in-house our developers are in-house Fountain Hills, Arizona is where we’re based. And, yeah, just built it over time and you see, the marketing picking up as we’ve built a marketing team in-house, and that was definitely, something we did over the last few years is why you’ve seen more YouTube.
Robert Newman: Got you. Okay. Believe me, if there’s going to be two guys that understand the concept of growing something the slow and dare I say painful way, it’s going to be John and me. We get it. So I get it. So you’ve been around for a long, long time. You’ve been taking input. How often do you add features to your platform?
Brandon Wise: Every month we have releases of new, as well as, upgrades that we’ve done to our two older features or add ons to them. And then of course, every, every week we’re fixing bugs that pop up because of all the new features that we’re. So we’re, really active on that. We’ve got a lot of different ways that our members can reach out to us if they come across anything that needs to be. And if there’s a bug, we jump on those right away. But yeah, new features, we’re always, always rolling out new features and you can kind of look through our blog and see all the different and we write a nice blog and do a nice, wrap up every time we release a new feature or do a new integration.
Robert Newman: All right. So here’s a question from one guy that’s been doing this a long time, to another guy that’s been doing this a long time. I have my own opinions about things that are actually moving the needle inside the real estate marketing world. I’m kind of curious if you’re going to take a single element of- So customer record management systems are all about managing the relationship with the customer. Technology in the last 18 years. I’m sure you would agree has changed tremendously a lot, but that doesn’t mean the customer relationship management has. There’s just a lot of elements to the technology that we use to manage those relationships that have changed.
If you had to take a stab at saying what the number one biggest thing that you’ve noticed in customer relationship management in general, in terms of technology, how has it impacted that dynamic? What would you say, the one thing is, or a couple of things are that have really impacted customer relationship management software in general, not just yours everybody. Like, what’s the big thing that everybody’s had to pivot to.
Brandon Wise: for one is, going from just a CRM to now the CRM has to be the full platform and they have to include the marketing, the transaction, it’s a full rounded system to that kind of is the one-stop-shop where they look for everything. But as far as what’s really changed, over the years and continues on, I would have to say it’s the automation of the process. So for instance, in the past, when you got a lead, you said it wasn’t even an internet lead, then you would have to start the process. If maybe you got an email address, who does that email address belong to did you get a first and last name? Where do they work? You’re starting to be an investigator where now, today when someone puts in a partial lead if just an email address, it’s going to run before it even hits in the CRM immediately, we scour the internet. We’re returning all kinds of information, from the different social media. So a lot of times before they even click on the lead, they know what their first name, the last name, where they work, what their title is, and in-kind of, in the notes, a whole system of whatever we could get out of LinkedIn or Facebook.
so they get a big edge just on the automation before they’ve even clicked the client was before they were out scouring and trying to figure out what are, what are these things? So you can even count sometimes even know their hobbies, and then it’s linked to someone’s social media, so I can see their last three tweets. So I kind of know what they’re talking about right now is, and then, of course, the conversion process, being able to automatically start sending out texts and email. Now the big thing that I’m just getting back from the NAR conference, it was amazing how many people stopped by the booth with success stories on our AI bot. That’s the artificial intelligence bot that’s put in place to help convert leads. And this thing truly was, it was mind-blowing to hear it hear and actually to see the conversations on their phones, how well they’ve worked. We had several people show us their success stories.
One guy, in particular, comes to mind that, had come down to our booth and he said, yeah, I’ve converted several leads, but I just got one. I was in a session upstairs and your AI bot messaged me and said, hey, this lady is ready to list her house. You need to take the conversation over. And he was showing me as he scrolled down. Our bot has been talking to this lead since early October, and it’s been just text messaging back and forth. And then when he was in a session just last week in San Diego, he got the message from the bot saying, okay, she is ready to list their house.
He had named his, but, Erica, I believe is what he said. So he turned the bot off and then he took over the conversation and he acts like he is the bot. And he said, hey, this is Erica. I’m going to have, Jonathan give you a call. He takes care of all of these things in the office. Then he waited many picked up the phone and he called and said, hey, this is Jonathan. Erica said I need to give you a ring. And the girl said, yes, she’s been great we’re ready to list our house as soon as you get back to town. So it was just a success story happening, right at the booth with brand new technology, helping to convert these, these leads. So that answered your question.
Robert Newman: That was a very robust answer. Thank you I think that you’re right. I think AI and automation are ways that the customer relationship has changed. I think that the way that relationships and technology for a while, it was very confusing for most people because they didn’t know how to use it. As we do get more automated, a lot more of that really cool technology that’s available for people gets layered into their tools, such as the CRM. the one thing that you said though, that I would like to humbly, potentially disagree with, because I’ve watched this take place for the entirety of my 16-year career. And it’s been a little bit frustrating, every single agent, every single person that I talk to seems to say, we would just want one tool, one tool to do everything. One thing to do it all.
My experience, as a technologist, both as a person that’s built technology tools, use technology tools, watched other people build technology tools is that it is very rare for somebody to build an all-in-one tool and get every element of that tool, like correct, or do a really good job. It’s also very expensive if you know anything about development at all, trying to build a one size fits all tool. I’ll give you a great example of that in my opinion. Structurally has done something really incredible with basically automating the text messaging process, creating all these really complex algos, to have long conversations by text message. But they got vestment they had a leader that was focused on just that one problem. They had every single developer, every single team member focused on just that one problem.
In my opinion, they’ve come out ahead of everybody in that element, in that field, when it comes to just that one problem, are they better or a better marketing company or a better CRM or a better anything? No, I don’t think so at all. I just think they happen to be a very good text messaging service. So this thing where we all run-
Jonathan Denwood: Oh who are they?
Robert Newman: Structurally, we had them on the show.
Jonathan Denwood: Oh, I thought you didn’t mention them.
Robert Newman: No, No. Structurally we literally had them on the show.
Jonathan Denwood: Yeah.
Robert Newman: So I just, I just think that there’s too much of a rush to go to the one thing. And I`ve never taken a look at your platform, so I don’t know what, like, I’m not making any comments to anybody that’s listening to the show about Wise Agents or anything else. I’m just saying as a general.
Jonathan Denwood: You don’t know what you’ve missed, you just don’t understand what you’ve missed you haven’t been to the Wise Agent platform how can Brandon forgive you?
Robert Newman: If he’s anything like you, not at all. No,
Jonathan Denwood: You better wrap up the podcast part of the show and hopefully Brandon–
Brandon Wise: So Just coming back to your point, Robert, if you’re using the structural platforms, to send texts, where do, where do you, where do you track it after that? What do you do next?
Robert Newman: After you send the texts? I don’t know how robust their dashboard is.
Brandon Wise: I’ll tell you because that’s actually our partner. We are very good integrated partners with structurally So I’m not saying we have to build the whole platform and that anyone could, but you do need to have it all working in one place. because it would make no sense to turn on structurally, and then have to run over here and put it in a system and then have to go log into something else to set up, an ongoing drip and then go somewhere else to send out my newsletter and then log into another. After I get the listing log in to somewhere else, to make a flyer, I could do it all. And that’s how a lot of people do it. But if you have one place that you log in and everything is functioning together, we didn’t build it all. We just integrated it to give you a better experience so that you don’t have to log into eight different platforms to run your business. If you were platforms that you can log in to and still see, you can still use your sky slope, but you don’t have to log in to Sky Slope or Dotloop. You can do it right from within your CRM, and have that better user experience that was more my point.
Robert Newman: See and that I completely agree with creating an end-to-end experience but letting other people build certain pieces of the end-to-end that makes a lot more sense to me as a technologist. I don’t pretend to be the best at every single thing that I look at, not even close. I’m hoping that there’s somebody really creative out there that does it really well, and that I can integrate them into my process, which seems to be what you just said. Is that right? Is that correct?
Brandon Wise: You got it we are on the same page.
Robert Newman: Okay. All right. Awesome. Awesome. John, are we staying a little bit longer? I think we are out of time for the podcast part of the show.
Jonathan Denwood: It’s time to wrap up the podcast part of the show [inaudible] and we have a couple of quick questions for Brandon and then let him go his merry for our bonus content.
Robert Newman: All right. So ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for tuning into the show. We really appreciate it. Brandon, if you wanted somebody to reach out to you or check out your platform, how, what would you tell them to do?
Brandon Wise: Really the best way is just to go right to wiseagent.com. And from there, you’ll be able to contact us any way that you feel best we were on every platform, you can find everything right at wiseagent.com.
Robert Newman: And I will attest to that because while we’ve been doing the podcast, I’ve, just out of curiosity, opened up all his social channels and they all look lovely and populated with amazing content. So you should go check them out. Jonathan, how do people contact you?
Jonathan Denwood: Just go to the mail right website, mail hyphen right.com have a look at what we got to offer. We’re always ready to have a discussion with our possible clients, or just join the mail, right YouTube channel. We’re going to be producing a lot more content for the channel over the next few months.
Robert Newman: Beautiful. And, if anybody would like to find me, they can do so on inboundREM. And for those of you who might be new to the show, just so that you know John and I joke a lot, and that’s what you heard us doing. So we were just taking some, some, some shots at each other, but it was all ingested. All right. So, for those of you who would like to stay tuned, please move over to YouTube/mail-right. You’re going to get to see the last 10 minutes of the show. They’re going to be utterly fantastic. I just don’t know what it’s going to be, but it’s going to be great. So you should go there. All right. Thank you so much, everybody, for joining us, we really appreciate it.