#302 Mail-Right Show: Why What You & Team Initially Say’s To Possible Leads Still Matters So Much!
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Why What You & Team Initially Say’s To Possible Leads Still Matters So Much!
More About Dale Archdekin & His Company Smart Inside Sales
Dale Archdekin is the founder of Smart Inside Sales, a coaching and training company serving residential real estate agents and brokers. Dale began his real estate career by cold calling and working internet leads. In his first 5 years, he became one of the top FSBO and Expired listing agents in his market.
Over the course of time, he went on to become the Director of Lead Generation for a small local team and was instrumental in growing it to a top-5 Keller Williams Realty Mega Team. Dale’s inside sales team was pivotal in more than doubling the team’s sales to over $200 million in just 3 years. Now Dale and his team replicate that success through sales training, lead conversion, and team growth consulting for clients across the U.S. and Canada.
Robert Newman: Welcome back ladies and gentlemen, to the Mail-Right Real estate marketing podcast, where all we do is talk about real estate marketing. Once a week, every week. Today, we are blessed to have Dale with us. Dale is world-class. I would call him a lead optimization expert, but basically, he specializes in helping you get better results from your lead flow. He works with ISA. I would imagine Dale that you probably also work with a lot of the systems that are out there. You probably have to integrate your services into their services and things like that, but I’ll let you explain even further than I have just done what you do and who you are.
Dale Archdekin: Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. So I’m the founder of smart inside sales, the company, and we focus on scripting dialogue sales training for agents in ISA. So the spoken word, right? Written word spoken word, how you’re interacting with these leads from when you receive a lead to running into objections with them to following up with them, to set appointments and further the relationship with them. So we handle that at the end of the sale, right? With the agents and ISAs. we also consult with team leaders or brokers on growing their companies, growing their sales departments, improving their recruiting processes to find talent, and nurturing talent within their teams. So primarily from a sales aspect, I’m not an expert in CRMs. We generally work with clients that have all different types of CRM, but what we are is that we are lead conversion specialists when it comes to either written messaging or spoken words in terms of sales for people. So that dovetails nicely into what you guys do. I understand you guys are specialists at finding those leads online to supply to your clients.
Robert Newman: Correct. I will comment on more on that in a moment. if I can somehow do so without turning it into an interrogation of some kind. John why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself to so John my co-host is doing some really cool things, really exciting things inside the world of WordPress, as it relates to real estate marketing and real estate lead generation. he’s in the process it’s behind the magic Oz curtain right now of redesigning and redeveloping a service. I am very anxious as opposed to announcing it to the world. But he’s doing a lot of cool things, but John, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience?
Johnathan Denwood: Well it’s nothing hidden, we had a focus we felt we were a better option than our main target which was bold leads, but as we got involved with clients, they ask us to do more things than just so they seem to like where you had to offer. So we’re offering a more kind of larger package that still has Facebook. But I would say the main thing is that I’m from the world of WordPress web development. So we provide a really great website solution that has all these extra bits to it. So if that sounds interesting, give me a call. So over to you, Robert.
Robert Newman: lovely. Well, you Dale are directly in a wheelhouse that I left to actually be a real estate digital lead generation specialist, but I came from the ISA world. As a matter of fact, I worked in that world for 20 plus years running call centers for sprint MCI, AT&T and many, many, many, many other huge brands over the 20 years I was doing. So talking about scripting and how you speak intonation up tones, downzones mirroring, all those things are things that, that basically have been the linchpins of my, my career back in the day. So I’m really excited to get into this conversation. Before we do that, I’m curious to know if you said, if I asked you, who is it that you really like to talk to out what you do because it doesn’t sound like each and every single real estate agent or broker would be the person that you’d speak to. Who would you say that you were aiming? Like thinking that you’re a conversation with you would be most useful for?
Dale Archdekin: Generally speaking, our best client is typically going to be a team that has say maybe two agents at the small end up to at most say 20 to 30 agents. So that window of the team is generally our best clients and we have technologies and services and training that really supports them well. If you’re a brand-new individual agent, just trying to get yourself established and you don’t really have any leads to work, or if you have a few leads that you’re working, there are tons of free resources that you get from your brokerage that you can find on YouTube there are trainers out there who make it part of their pitch, that they do free training. And there are tons of resources out there for that.
So we’re kind of the, I would say the, the middle of the road between people being sort of a giant mega team, but trying to get their agents and ISA is either they want to add an ISA, which we absolutely help them do, or they want to grow from a single to a team of ISAs, or they just want to be able to scale their real estate team and have more success with converting the types of leads that you guys provide them. That’s what we help them do.
Robert Newman: Got you. And if you were to say, like, if I was to say something like hatch consulting to you, where would you put yourself in that universe of sister, competitor providers doing some conversion monster? I could go on and on there are lots of where do you put yourself in the, in the realm of all these companies that talk about, you know, call center services for real estate? Can you position yourself in that universe for us?
Johnathan Denwood: I’ll make a distinction for you. So conversion monster is a done for your company. So they have ISAs that they hire and train and they say, we’ll call your leads for you. Versus hatch consulting, which I’m personally friends with, Robbie [inaudible], who is hatched, essentially Eric hatches named, but Robbie really runs it. And so Robbie and I have actually collaborated and hatch consulting is very similar to what we do. Whereas Robbie is much more a specialist in the written text messaging and system optimization. Whereas I am much more of a specialist in the spoken word and the sales techniques that a salesperson has to use when actually talking to a lead. And in fact, I use some of Robbie’s messaging in terms of text messages, automation, or email automation. So there’s a blending there. But I would say that in terms of hatch consulting and us very similar, it’s just, we have some different strengths. Whereas conversion monster is a done-for-you company, which is, is a different thing all to all to its own.
Robert Newman: Gotcha. Excellent. Well, John, I’ve got my couple of burning questions answered. Do you have something for Dale? Cause you know me with telemarketing and in all things related to this universe, I can go all day.
Johnathan Denwood: Looking forward to it just a quick question Dale, recently has anything come on your radar that you think consistently agents do wrong, that’s been a consistent pattern over the years that you’ve been doing? Has that recently come back on your radar?
Dale Archdekin: Yeah, I would say that the one reason that we’re still in business and not put out by all the automation is that at some point you still have to have a human interaction with another human in order to.
Johnathan Denwood: Terrible isn’t it? Shocking.
Dale Archdekin: It’s the reason I don’t work at the local grocery store [inaudible] And the other thing-
Johnathan Denwood: I know it’s going to be shocking news for a lot of agents. You actually got to f**king talk to your clients.
Robert Newman: Wow, for once I’m not the one turning this into a rated R show good job.
Dale Archdekin: but that’s a reality. So you still have to have that human interaction somewhere. Yes, automation is fantastic. It’s great to leverage. It really does an amazing service for people and it helps them convert more, but you still have to have that personal interaction. which means that there’s still either zero training having been given to a salesperson or Shitty training hasn’t been given to a salesperson. And so that’s another reason why we’re successful is that we have a higher level of training quality that we provide to salespeople. Which is why I say, you know, for brand new agents that come to us, if you’re an individual, that’s what I’m saying the team is better for us because generally, someone has already provided you some training. You have some leads to talk to you don’t come to us to figure out how to get leads. You come to us because you have leads and you want to improve your level of conversion with those leads. And so that’s what we specialize in doing.
So consistent things I see, which keeps our doors rotating is being able to take a salesperson from basic scripting dialogue skills that the Mike Ferry’s out there giving people or that the KWS of the worlds are giving people and saying, okay, great, learn that stuff you have a good foundation now come over here and let me teach you some ninja tricks. I’m going to, I’m going to take you from, from green belt to black belt, if you will. And that’s a consistent thing that we see.
Robert Newman: What a good question, John. I’m super impressed.
Johnathan Denwood: I’m trying to improve Roberts no one of my rambling five-part monster questions that the poor guest takes them 1/2 an hour to answer every bloody point I’m trying to have him focused.
Robert Newman: I have an interesting comment for everybody that’s listening to the show. This is kind of like a pop quiz for our audience, which is- I found this to be really cool, Dale that when you Google conversion university, I’m curious to know if you knew that you come up number one for that term?
Dale Archdekin: I did not know that that is the one I’m going to take full credit for that. Although I had no idea.
Robert Newman: So if anybody’s listening to the show and, there’s always these points with our guests that we say, hey, go ahead and promote yourselves. I always find it very, to be very credible and very cool. If a guest has a good enough digital presence that you can say, you take this thing that’s related to what the guest does and you Google it and you will find the guest. in this particular case, you can obviously Google Dale’s name. His last name is Archdekin. Is that right? Okay. So his last name is Archdekin, which is obviously a really recognizable name, but if you’re like me and you kind of remember people based on what they do instead of their names, you could just do conversion university, which I think is pretty straight forward.
Dale Archdekin: [Inaudible] sweat.
Robert Newman: So Dale when you’re like training- so here, let me just make sure I understand this right. If I have an ISA, I’m a real estate agent, I’ve got somebody that’s doing calls for me, but I feel like let’s say I’m giving that person a hundred leads to call every month. And I’m using sync just to say some, whatever, just some system, right? And we all know those digital leads need to be called and they have to be dug through because about 80 to 90% of them are going to be a waste of time. But we all know that a good person on the phone is going to get a better result with the same hundred leads than somebody who’s not like, are we, am I on track so far kind of going down a rabbit hole that you’re used to going down?
Dale Archdekin: Yeah, I would say there’s only one piece I disagree with and that I don’t agree that 80 to 90% are a waste of time. I would say 80 to 90% Just aren’t ready for you yet. And getting rid of duplicates, obviously because these digital leads are getting resold and resold and resold because I’m one person that I register in, a lot of different places around a lot of different social media. but I would say, and I’m not selling leads don’t get me wrong. I would say that a lot of them just aren’t ready yet. It depends on where you’re fishing, the farther up the stream, you fish the longer it’s going to take for that fish to get to you. So that’s the only part that I don’t quite agree.
Johnathan Denwood: Funny enough Robert a lot of women say that to me I’m just not ready for you Johnathan.
Robert Newman: I love you brother, you’re on one today. So we’ve got, we’ve got the fish, the stream, a hundred, and let’s just say that let’s use Dale’s language and say that of these hundred people, there’s going to be 80, that aren’t ready for you yet. And maybe 20 that are somewhere in the realm of being ready. Is that, more language that you would, you would more feel aligned with.
Dale Archdekin: Yeah and the more skilled you are, the faster either you can accelerate them or you can make a better relationship. And so that they’ll stick with you until they are ready. So I definitely agree with that.
Robert Newman: Okay. All right. So lovely. So I have somebody calling those hundred people and if I wanted that, somebody to do exactly what you just said, which is develop a better relationship, be more closely connected to you, probably not get connected to the other places and people that they’ve registered. Cause you said that earlier in your statement. So this one human has maybe registered with five different services and they’re probably getting calls from these five services. So you want them to develop a relationship with your team is that you’re on board with that?
Okay. You would be the guy that I would approach and say, I don’t necessarily know how to get this result. Or even if I did, maybe I just don’t want to deal with it myself, because if I’m a broker and I have 15, 20 agents, I probably don’t have time to do it if we’re honest about it. So that would be when I would contact you though, I’d take this one or two or three people that I have called one to a hundred or 200 or 300 leads. And I’d hire you to coach those people. Is that, am I understanding this correctly?
Dale Archdekin: Yes. So we have a training platform for that existing ISA. And then I’m going to make a further argument that 50% of the ISA success is going to rely on the training and skill set of the agents that they’re giving these appointments to, or that they’re sending the leads to after they’ve warmed them up or nurtured them. So I love to get the whole team involved in the training so we can improve their skills too. And now if we’re being honest with each other, Robert, can I kind of be honest with you and tell you the dirty secret?
Robert Newman: No lie to me. Yeah, of course.
Dale Archdekin: Is that what Jonathan says the ladies do? – is that unfortunately 90% of the time, if a client’s first engagement with us is after they’ve already hired an ISA, I will say generally 70 to 80% of the time they’ve made the wrong hire and they come to us, they’re like, hey, I went and did this thing and I want you to train them. in the back of my head I’m always like, oh man, you, what you just said was, I want to spend additional money on training and resources for this person I probably shouldn’t have hired in the first place. And then we have a moral dilemma as to whether we say, great, pay, your money over here, let us train them. Or we say, let’s first test that person to see if we agree that you should have made that hire in the first place before we take your money to train them.
I really prefer that people come to us before they make the hire or after they’ve already failed several times and wasted 5 or $10,000 trying to implement an ISA department. And then they’re really ready to listen to what you tell them as to how hard it is to find a good fit for this role and the steps you have to take to make it happen. So that’s kind of like the, how the sausage gets made behind the curtain a little bit.
Johnathan Denwood: We need to go for our break Robert.
Robert Newman: You got it. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we’re in the middle of what I personally find to be a deeply fascinating conversation with Dale. And we’re talking about my, one of my favorite topics that I never get to talk about that relates to 20 years of my life, which is call optimization. How do you optimize a conversation with human beings and how do you do that via the phone, or, and I’m sure some of the same tactics can be used via zoom meetings these days? But anyway, we’re going to be right back and we’re going to dive even deeper with Dale and follow up on some of his comments. So stay tuned, do not turn off that that podcast.
AD: Do You want quality leads from homeowners and buyers, right in your own neighborhood? Then you need mail, right It is a powerful but easy-to-use online marketing system that uses Facebook to generate real estate leads at a fraction of the cost you’d pay from our competition. We stand behind our work with a no-question, asked 30-day money-back guarantee. So don’t delay get started today, go to mail dash, right.com.
Robert Newman: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen to episode number 302, we are so, very lucky to have Dale Archdekin with us today. And we are talking about ISAs and optimizing conversations with ISAs. And prior to the break, Dale said something that I wanted to comment on which was he was saying that he prefers to be contacted after either. And correct me if I’m wrong in any of this Dale that you said Hey I like to be contacted after somebody has failed a few times to make a hire or before they hire anyone at all? because, okay. So because it’s very, very difficult to train a resource that is not trainable.
So a lot of people don’t know this but I have probably hired and trained over 10,000 ISA in my career. And it’s literally been a number that it’s that big, but you might ask that sounded like an unrealistic number. How in the world can you really hire and train that many people? And the answer is, is that telesales or telemarketing or talking to people on the phone is a very brutal business. It requires a very particular personality that can take a lot of rejection in stride and still maintain what hopefully is a really amazing attitude. It’s very, very hard to find people who are suited well to that work. And when you do find them, it is really important that you invest in those people. I would agree with what Dale said because you want them to have to deal with the emotionality and the- what they have to take on take in as part of this career choice for themselves. You want them to have the tools to one, get the best result because they’ll feel better about what they do. And number two, you have to give them the tools psychologically to take in stride, the rejection that they do get, which is a great way to do it is what Dale just said, which is it’s really not, oftentimes not rejection. It might just be a matter of bad timing. So no, isn’t really a no, it’s just a no right now. Would you agree with that?
Dale Archdekin: Yeah. A lot of times it is.
Robert Newman: So how do you go about, so let’s just say, for instance, Dale, like I am taking your advice. I have not hired an ISA, but I want to, I have the budget. I have the will. I know that I need it. I have, a system someplace out there that’s generating me let’s just call it a few hundred leads a month. And I know, I know they need to be called, but so far they haven’t been, they’ve been getting follow-up boss and maybe why Lobo text messages, which is actually structurally. So they’re getting some type of automated text messaging being sent out to them. But now I want an ISA. I’ve heard from 5,000 people that the best way to do this is to use it in an actual human being. What do you do from that point forward? Like how do you find the person? What do you do? Or do you recommend that they find the person in a certain way? How do you handle that thing, that situation past that point?
a3 So I’m going to tell you how we go about it. And this is so we obviously have a training course consulting course where we help people do this for their in-house ISA. But I’m just going to tell you it’s not a lot of magic. It’s a lot of repetition. I’ll give you our basic format for doing this. And people can do this here and if they want us to them great, but if not, they can do it themselves. And we generally recommend for most situations that hiring an in-house, ISA and training them. And I’m going to say some very risky things here that we recommend that they be either US-based or English as a first language, native English speakers to be working these kinds of leads. If you want to use a virtual and another country that is not English as a first language, I’ve only seen success there as a basic lead scrubber. meaning is this accurate information? Do you have a heartbeat? And that’s about the extent of any kind of success I’ve seen out of that service. So whether you do it yourself or you hire one of those services, I don’t recommend overseas types of orientation.
So we recommend in-house native as a native English speaker, ideally in your own region, because they’re going to have a little bit more understanding about how to approach things. So I’m in Philadelphia. I can’t take a Philadelphia-based person and have them talk to somebody in Georgia and not sound like a jerk. That’s just not going to work very well. So likewise, somebody from down there trying to talk, the leads up here is going to get blown off the phone. So those are the first couple of the recommendations that I have. And then it’s pretty simple. You craft a really good ad. We just use indeed, right? We run it all on. Indeed. We boost, we paid to sponsor it. You want to get somewhere between 50 to a hundred resumes per week. We don’t read the resumes and I’ll give two shits about a resume. A resume has never been able to accurately predict whether somebody is going to be a good, productive, profitable ISA or not. And the only people who can come up with a good resume are good liars. That doesn’t make them good ISAs. So I don’t read the resumes at all. And instead, we received the resumes and then we require them to do either a voice recording or video recording of themselves. Right. We send them an email that says, Hey,
Johnathan Denwood: What do you think you’ll make of my one if I did one dale?
Dale Archdekin: Oh, well yours that would be, I would definitely hire you as an ISA somewhere in Britain. If I could place the accent, that would work fantastically.
Johnathan Denwood: You said the right thing. You could come back to the show.
Robert Newman: Like he’d want to-
Dale Archdekin: [Inaudible] love accents, maybe it would, it would increase the conversion. I don’t know. But anyway, so video of yourself, who are you, why do you think you’re the best fit for this role? What special talents or abilities do you have? If they cannot figure out how to get you a video and they can’t articulate themselves and their language sucks, they don’t go any farther. But let’s say they pass that. We do that screening, right. Then we take a modified Mike ferry script, the fisbo script, one of the old-school scripts that we’ve modified and we send it to them and we say, hey, you’re going to do a role play with us.
And they say, okay, this is after we tell them what the role is what they’re going to be paid, how they get paid, how they get a commission, what they have to do, that they have to make all these calls six hours of, you know, general prospecting a day. And if they’re still with it, we say, great, take that script I gave you. And we say two things to them. We say your goal you’re going to play the role of an agent. I’m going to play the role of a, for sale by owner. And we’re doing this with people with no experience, right? None, no real estate experience. It doesn’t matter. We’re testing their sales skills. We say, first your goal is to set an appointment with me. Second. The only way you fail this exercise is if you let me off the phone before you ask all your questions and they say, okay, and then we proceed to object to them and try to get off the phone and see what they do.
And by going through that, it shows us what level of sales skill and ability and experience they have. And somebody who breaks role-plays fails. Somebody who lets me off the phone without at least closing me once fails. If you close me twice bonus points, if you get stuck in the script and I object to you, I say, hey, Jonathan, I got to go. My kids are playing in the backyard. And you’re like, oh man, can I ask you a few more questions? And you get stuck and you don’t move forward. You don’t quite have the sales ability or the experience probably for this role. So it’s a really good filter to weed out a whole lot of people that aren’t going to be able to do this.
Johnathan Denwood: I’m getting worried that I won’t pass.
Dale Archdekin: We should do it we should do it live. We’ll do another session where we make John ask me-
Johnathan Denwood: That one would be interested I’m sure the listeners would actually love that actually me on the spot actually. I’m sure Robert would absolutely love it
Dale Archdekin: Then we move them. If they pass that, we move them to a calling session where we teach them a script for 30 minutes, 40 minutes. We give them a pile of either old leads or circle prospect stuff on a recorded line. And we say, have at it, you have two hours to speak to these people. Your goal is to set appointments. And then we just listen to what happens, right. And what kind of attitude do they have, what their energy is are they able to do it? Can they actually get some, can they set some appointments? Even if they’re crap, I don’t care what the quality of the appointment is at that point. Can you set an appointment if I tell you to? that’s kind of the screening stuff that we put people through in that that raises people’s chances. If they have, let’s say a 5 to 10% chance of getting the right hire without using those techniques, I would say that generally, it raises it about five times. So you’re at about 50 50. Now you’re at about a 50 50 shot that whoever you hire is going to be able to do this job and get to stay with you and be profitable.
Robert Newman: And that number ladies and gentlemen is about 40 or 50% of what? So the numbers, when I hired for call centers was maybe 1 in 10 to one in 20 people would stick. And this is after they went through an interview process. So we would have them submit a resume, come into the office. They talked to the hiring manager, they get past that person. And then we then put them through like usually a few days’ worths of training, there’s an old, old saying that I always adhere to when I was running call centers, which was hired masses, teach them in classes and kick them in the ass. And that used to really that did the trick. But even with all of that, you’re talking about 1 in 21 and 15, where they would slash more than the first 30 days. Like that’s literally what the number is. And, and in that industry, they just don’t show up again, like, they’ll talk to HR, they’ll send them a message saying, may I have my check? They won’t even bother talking to the floor sups or the telemarketing manager. They just disappear. You just don’t see their seat filled.
So you’re, you’re always hiring lots of people to fill that funnel. So what I hear you saying to me, what I’ve just heard is that through this process, which I agree with if you’re running through the process, as you’ve just outlined at first you are on the phone or on this podcast, I agree that should do the trick. If you’re doing all of that. If you’re sitting there and listening to them, do two hours of calls and you’re listening to them set some kind of appointment by that time, you’ll know how good their conversational skills are. The only thing I think would be left is do they have the will and the diligence to do it six hours a day every day? Is that a fair statement?
Johnathan Denwood: Robert, we need to wrap up the podcast, but hopefully, Dale can stay on some bonus content, which people will be able to watch on the Mail-Right YouTube channel.
Dale Archdekin: If you twist my arm, I’ll stay and talk. Like, I know what I’m saying. I love doing that.
Johnathan Denwood: Thank you Dale 300 episodes and I’m still doing it Dale so I understand it completely.
Robert Newman: But before we go, that last question, would you agree with what I was saying? And then we’re going to go to the YouTube bonus content if you’re willing to stay with us for two more minutes.
Dale Archdekin: Yes, absolutely. Totally agree with what you just said. And I want to make another point is that you said in that big corporate environment, we did cattle calls, got them in, went through this process. The reason we developed this very, very tight, like you punch them in the face and make them do the work before I hire you is that these teams, don’t have the bandwidth for doing that. They can’t do cattle call stuff and they’re still selling and the team leader, still selling 60, 70 houses a year, still trying to manage deals, falling apart, still trying to manage the agents that are whining about why they don’t have enough closings this month, right. Or where the leads are. And they have to hire this ISA. And so we try to short, I did it myself running and building ISA teams within mega real estate companies.
And we didn’t have the luxury of doing cattle calls. Like we had to be really efficient. Like you got to show up, I punch you in the face. If you stay, I make you do the work. If you like the work, you get to stay here until I figure out that you can’t actually make dollars happen and then you have to leave. That’s gotta be efficient.
Robert Newman: Gotcha. All right, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls realtors, brokers of all ages and sizes. We really appreciate you tuning into the podcast today, as always at the end of the show, I’m going to ask that if you enjoyed what we shared if you enjoy Dale and the information that he’s sharing with you, and you should if you have an ISA. because I’m finding this stuff to be golden, I can’t recollect ever doing a show where, where we’ve been talking about this specific topic. I’m going to say, please thumbs up are our podcasts on the iTunes station, thanks to the listeners like you, we are quickly becoming the number one podcast that talks about real estate marketing, and boy, John and I really do appreciate you hanging in there with our craziness. John, if somebody wanted to find you, how would you like them to do so?
Johnathan Denwood: Pretty easy just go to the Mail-Right Website Mail-Right.com. And you can book a chat with me and my partner, Adam who’s much nicer than me I think I’m quite chatty aren’t I Robert? Even if you don’t think you’re ready for the mail-right platform, I’m sure we can provide some value in the conversation to you in your Real Estate career.
Robert Newman: And Dale, how would you like our audience to look you up?
Dale Archdekin: Sure. We’re all over the internet. They can either, they can hit me up personally, email@example.com, or they can go to our website, check out the training options that we have. We also do have a YouTube channel that has tons of recorded content. I do a podcast called cash call and we publish the replays in there with my co-host Brian Curtis, where we’re reviewing calls. And really just whereas my friend, Sam Montreal used to say elbow deep in the dough of lead conversion.
Robert Newman: Beautiful. And ladies and gentlemen, if you’d like to look me up, I’m an SEO guy these days, I’m long out of the call center call conversion call business, but you can still get on the call with me in some rare cases. You can look me up at inbound,REM.com, and fill out one of my contact forms. If for some reason you’re looking to talk about inbound, which is something else entirely different. Stay tuned. We’re going to do another 10 minutes with Dale. We’re going to keep talking about this subject, which is getting better results from your ISAs. And we’re going to do that on the YouTube channel, which is Mail hyphen, right? On YouTube. So look forward to seeing you there.