290 Mail-Right Show Chad Keller of Motivated Leads
We Discuss With This Weeks Guest “Chad Keller” How To Use Google & Facebook To Generate More Seller Leads in 2021
Chad Keller of Motivated Leads
For 12+ years now we have done Facebook marketing and Search Engine Optimization for local businesses, startups, and fortune 500 companies. Forbes, Inc. & all the major publications have recognized us for our skills. We’ve been fortunate enough to spend millions in advertising dollars to learn the game from the inside out. Digital advertising is the craft that we’ve perfected over the past 12+ years but…. 5 years ago after buying a few rental properties from our agency profits we realized where the true wealth is and that was the start of our real estate empire.
Robert Newman: Welcome back ladies and gentlemen to the mail right podcast today’s episode is number 290, and we are here with Chad Keller. Chad is a PPC and a paid strategy expert who has focused most recently on investment properties. But he’s going to talk to us not only about investment properties but paid strategies for residential real estate as well. We’re really excited about today’s show Chad, if you could go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience, we would appreciate it.
Chad Keller: Nice to meet everyone. I’m Chad. As he said I’ve been doing paid marketing for about 12 years now. I’ve been in solo companies with a backup paid marketing. I ran agencies, some of those agencies got into real estate investing and kind of came full circle and now, run an agency for real estate investors. And some of these investors as well are realtors. They do a little bit of it all wholesale, traditional real estate, wholesale and, and investing. So, vast background learned a lot over the years of working with them. And I now work with about 150 nationwide. So it’s been fun.
Robert Newman: Brilliant okay John why don’t you go ahead and- my amazing co-host has founded his own technology company. I’ve been stealing his thunder lately, but John, why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience? The new ones, the new members.
Jonathan Denwood: Thanks, Robert. Well, I’m the founder of Mail-Right, Mail-Right is a platform, a CRM, and a platform to get you, quality seller, leads it uses the power of Facebook advertising, and we also got some other elements to mail, right that you’ll find extremely helpful. If that sounds interesting, and we’re looking for energetic, positive agents to join us and utilize our platform, just go to the Mail-Right website and sign up for a demo, which I will do with you myself takes about 15, 20 minutes. I’m sure you get some value for me back over to you, Robert.
Robert Newman: lovely. My name is Robert Newman I am a real estate marketing expert, an SEO specialist, and you can learn all the things on my website, inboundREM.com without any further do Chad. Chad and I were talking about, authors that we like to follow before the show started. And, one of his favorites was Phil Knight. One of my favorites was Warren Buffett. And with that, very unusual lead-in. Why don’t you go ahead and tell us a little bit about one of your favorite current strategies in let’s talk about your bailiwick. Like, where are you, where are you living? How do you, how do you leverage aid strategies to find investors?
Chad Keller: Yes, over on that side, we have a lot of partnerships with companies that we find our investors and work with our investors through word of mouth is very big on that growth side of things. The page that it’s for us to find motivated sellers for those investors. So a lot of what we do and the people that we work with are through word of mouth, because we have to vet and work with very experienced investors, that have been doing this for years, and they have a lot of doors underneath their bottom have huge portfolios, but from a page standpoint, finding motivated sellers, I mean, there’s a huge difference, between a normal seller and a motivated seller, even find sellers very easily, that are just looking to list their properties we’ve done it, a few people where you go from $3 to $10, but a motivated seller leads from an investment standpoint can cost you in anywhere in the market from 75 up to $400, depending on where that market is.
And using the combination of Facebook and Google ads has been the strongest suit for us. That’s where we bring a lot of big agency, big spend experience to a local market. I’ve been one of the top affiliates for fortune 500 brands for years. I’ve spent over a hundred million dollars on Facebook, probably in the last four or five years. And taking those learnings and applying them to local markets, you can pretty much, I’ll strategize people with the right creatives, the right campaign objectives, and going in, and they’re just taking over those markets. There is a lot of people doing it that are just doing it themselves and trying to do it themselves. whereas if you bring on an expert and use some of these strategies for some, top of the funnel campaigns, where you’re just trying to prospect to get them in the mid-funnel, trying to educate them a little bit, then come back and retarget them and push them through, having to build up strategies like that. You’re going to have a much better success rate.
Robert Newman: I got you. John, why don’t you take the next question?
Jonathan Denwood: So now obviously I’m in this kind of crazy market Chad everybody’s looking for seller leads. Can you, obviously, I’m not asking you to give you know delve into the magic books really deeply, but if you don’t mind, giving us little insight of some of your most recent Facebook campaigns. But I’ve got used to some great results. So it’d be really interesting to our listeners and viewers do you mind doing it?
Chad Keller: Yeah, no, I’ll go ahead and talk about what works, what doesn’t work, on Facebook. What we found just like throughout the years, like two, three, four years ago, you used to take a lot of data and upload it to Facebook use localized hyper-targeted audiences, things like that to really dial in and find these people. The targeting and everything still work very well. Don’t get me wrong. But it becomes creative heavy. you got to look at it from the standpoint of what’s going to make Facebook look the best, the best way to make Facebook look the best is to have really good creativity that is shown to its users.
So when those users see that, that they say, Oh, this is a very quality ad. It really hits me and speaks to me correctly. And I want to click that. And then that creates a great user experience that ad matches a landing page. And that one, the one where the ad matches the landing page and has better relevancy scores with your ads. And then they’re going to convert higher. So taking in the ad creative itself is very important to a lot of people who don’t realize they think they can go create ads themselves, or just throw up whatever and it’s going to work. We actually spend about, I want to say we’re spending probably 25 to $30,000 a month nationwide, just testing ad creatives for our clients, because that’s how important, a creative can be. One creative can can take you from a hundred dollars lead cost to a $60 lead cost, just how that creative speaks and how that creative is positioned. It can all be in that. And Facebook’s really pushing for advertisers to focus on that and spend a little bit more time on that. So, that has been one of the most key factors and like the last three, four months on Facebook for us.
Jonathan Denwood: I’m sorry, Robert were you going to say something?
Robert Newman: No, no, no, you can continue. I do have a question, but
Jonathan Denwood: you rock on. So do you know you, in some ways am I correct, is it distressed properties or properties that people, you know, and inherited, and they’re trying to get rid of quickly because you know, you’re a wholesaler in a way aren’t you, so is the word? So is it in really knowing your audience well so that creativity really induces action from the target audience? Is that one of the keys to it?
Chad Keller: yeah so I mean, as I said, we have investors that are realtors themselves that wholesale, and also trying to buy investment properties. We have guys that do commercials. We have guys that buy industrial buildings, you’ve got to buy land multifamily. That creative always speaks to the audience that they’re trying to tackle for us personally, me and Ryan, we’re partners in this, we buy and hold properties ourselves here in Pittsburgh. We want three-bedroom, two-bathroom homes are what we want, and that’s what we buy in good school districts. So what do we feature in our ads? The exact types of houses that we buy. We feature three-bedroom, two-bathroom homes in these districts. We change add creatives to the school colors, even the high school colors, something that is known within that area that really resonates with them.
But from a language standpoint, I mean, cash quickness to sell on the motivated seller side, that quick cash that quick closing, really speaks to them. It really gets you in with them because if they realize that like, Hey, I’m going through this situation where I can’t list my house because I’m a hoarder and no realtor will list this. I need to just take whatever offer I can get in. And that cash offer is very enticing to me if it’s right. So we mainly about 70% of the client base is distress sellers. and, and by distress, I mean, hoarders people going through divorce death in the family, they are drastic situations that you’re walking into and getting properties from. But at the end of the day, you’re helping them get out of that situation. And it makes a lot of sense from an investment standpoint. But we do have guys that Hey, I want to target 300 to $700,000 homes, in Florida. And then we position ads to that. Those ads are speaking and they’re going to landing pages that are higher quality and more professional-looking, not as organic and as well as, as a distressed seller ad would look. So it’s really pertaining to that particular seller itself how we position the ads.
Jonathan Denwood: I’ve got a question about the landing page. Well, I’m going to leave it for later on and let Robert come in.
Robert Newman: Oh no, my question is a little off-topic, please, please continue. I have a, like a broader, like back it up kind of question. I’d prefer for you to continue with your detailed question. It’ll make more sense for the show,
Jonathan Denwood: Right? Yeah. I think we’ve got time for my question and then we probably go for a break and then Robert, can I ask his. So, based on my own experience, Chad, I’ve found the landing page to be really important almost I don’t know if yours is going to be different, but almost more important than the Facebook advert. I agree with everything you’ve said about the advert, but I found the landing page. You can get a lot of good responses from the advert but if the landing page isn’t spot on they don’t, sign up for the lead magnet or whatever you’re offering. So is that something you’ve found yourself that the landing page is also very crucial?
Chad Keller: Yeah. So AI, so the bots on Facebook, they’re going to scan your, Ads they scan your landing page to see what that experience is like. And the reason they do that is that there were so many black hats, just illegal marketers in the past that used to push one type of ad in there. They would say something like, I don’t know, get this product for free. And then you come to the website and it actually wouldn’t be free or they would be promoting like this was huge in like the CBD and marijuana niche, where they go from promoting one product and you’d come to a landing page and they’d actually be pushing CBD or marijuana, which is illegal to push on the platforms.
So they have bots now that commonly scan your landing pages to see if they align with your Ads. So the way that your ad speaks has to speak to your landing pages and they have to align with one another completely different experiences there, then your ad cost is going to be much higher your reach is going to be limited. you’re, you’re just not going to get the full dollar amount out of your ad spend, as you could be if you line your landing page up accordingly to that ad creative. So again, it’s the type of buyer that you’re going after, the type of seller that you’re going after. You want that landing page to speak to them and talk to things like, Hey, are you a hoarder? Are you behind on your mortgage? Are you going through a distress situation? You can go more in-depth on that text, on that landing page. A great solution to, I don’t know if you guys probably have heard about is carrot something that carrot does, which is interesting, is that if you put in,
Jonathan Denwood: I’m sorry to interrupt, do you mind for our listeners and viewers? Explain what carrot is?
Chad Keller: So carrot yeah. Actually, carrot been a great, great partner to us. What they are is that they basically create done for you landing pages and websites for investors and realtors. And what you do is you can go in there, plug in your logo, plug in your phone number, plug in your area. And it automatically populates a whole entire landing page. Drag and drop real simple, to create for you for like $60 a month. But what’s interesting about it is that, if you’re from a real estate perspective, you can only target by County or city. So you can no longer do zip code or anything like that. But on the Carrot, if you type in Pittsburgh for us, for instance, there are different boroughs of codes within Pittsburgh beach, you Brookline Dormont all of this, that will show up on the right side of carrot and they’ll each have their own unique page automatically populated for you And Facebook reads that.
So if somebody from Brookline in Pittsburgh clicks one of our ads and comes through our website and it seems that there’s a page built out for Brookline and Pittsburgh, which is a small little suburb, which is a small little part of the city within Pittsburgh. Facebook’s bots recognized that, and Facebook bots are like, okay, well, these people put a lot of time into their experience. Like no matter where this person clicks within Pittsburgh, they have something built for them. So it’s almost tricking them in a way to create that user experience that you can’t get anywhere else unless you go build that manually on yourself, which could take so so much time. So those have worked really well for us. The lead cost, there can be a little bit higher. You can do stuff or you can build your own landing with shorter forms to get cheaper lead costs. But there are all different ways you can go with a landing page where it should always speak directly towards your ad, your ads, and blown up with the landing page. Everything’s off the four ways of the funnel.
Jonathan Denwood: Yea I think that’s words wise I think it’s time for us to go for a break Robert, and then come back. You can ask your question.
Robert Newman: Sure. Okay. So, ladies and gentlemen, we will be right back. We’re here with the amazing Chad Kelly. Who’s giving some great global advice about, PPC in general, and then page strategies. If you’re looking for, people who are selling their homes, in the investment space we’ll talk to you a minute.
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ROBERT NEWMAN: Welcome back to the Mail-Right show ladies and gentlemen, we are here with Chad Kelly. We’re talking a real estate investment and paid advertising strategy so far is yet to show his, spent a bit of time about how you might do ads to find motivated sellers of homes. So Chad I have a different type of question for you. You are on your website and in this interview, I have gotten the impression that you are an investor yourself. You seem to be extremely successful with it. I can honestly say in all the time that I’ve been doing this, I don’t recollect a really successful investor who’s decided to stick in the digital space. In other words, resell services to other people, to help them find motivated sellers. It’s kind of curious to me because I’ve never seen somebody with your skillset stick in it and then resell your service, like your skillset. Can you perhaps globally give me some kind of insight about why you decided to do that?
Chad Keller: yeah, so pretty much this is how it all came full circle. So I originally, when I got started in the whole of business, I bought and sold an e-commerce company on an econ. When I started that company, it was a hundred percent built on the back of Facebook. From there, I created an agency called growth stackers, did a lot with e-commerce startups, all of that, and got into performance marketing affiliate wise, where you are selling leads pretty much fortune 500 companies buying thousands and thousands of leads a month I’m like, okay, well, this is awesome. I still do that for companies, was making a lot of profits, a lot of money.
A friend, that did SEO Brian is my partner now. And I saw he was buying real estate and he was aggressively buying real estate came by my house, I remember he was doing like three, four houses a month. And I’m like, man, like, how do I get into this? Like, how do I, like, I need somewhere else besides a sophomore. And I don’t like doing that. I don’t understand it too much, but I understand what you’re doing for a real estate perspective. Can I get in on this? And he always told me, no, no. He’s like, I don’t need any money. Like it’s working for me. I don’t need anything. And he’s like, you know what? We’ve been asking for a while. He’s like we’ll strike a deal. He was like, you put up the money for the houses. I’ll do the work. I’ll make sure that like, hey, your money is always paid back. But the equity that we gained in these homes will split and I’m like, I let’s do it.
And that’s when it all started, started doing that with him, funding, these houses I’d have to put up the cash every time we basically buy a house in Pittsburgh anywhere from 80 to 110,000. You can put 30 to 40,000 into it. And then when we fly out for a hundred, so 30 or 40 will stick into it, but they’ll praise over 200. So it’s a great way to park cash, build equity. And I’m getting like, even splitting it with him. I’m getting 14 to 16% returns on my money. If I were to go sell that property right now granted we’re buying and holding those properties. And I look at long-term investments. I’m looking to hold onto them for 20 years.
So it just made a lot of sense for me that, Hey, he’ll meet the contractors. He’ll do all that. And I will just put up the money. So that’s how I got into real estate investing where I can still do what I do. And then we ended up starting this agency together because this is my background, was his background. I run, these, started getting these houses from leads that we ran on Facebook. And we’re like, we went to these real estate meetups and we’re like, okay, nobody’s like really doing this, right? Like, we’ve been doing this for ourselves there is not many people in the space that actually invest and get it the way we get it and look for these distressed properties the way we do. So let’s do it. And that’s where we started motivated, leads about, I want to say, I think it was like eight months ago and now we’re working with about 150 investors.
Robert Newman: Nice. Very nice John, over to you.
Jonathan Denwood: So what would you say is the difference we’ve gone through Facebook you know? That’s important to have good visuals, good quality graphics, make sure your landing page, but let’s talk about the Google one. First of all, what’s the main difference between what you’re doing with Google and Facebook if there is a major difference and between the two, which is getting you the best results at the present moment, or does that vary?
Chad Keller: So yeah on the Google side of things. It’s different because it’s the cost per click where you’re in a more of a bidding war or Facebook’s, impression-based where you can kind of out strategize people on Facebook. Great. You can do it on Google to an extent, like there’s a huge difference, especially if you’re going out to motivated sellers, between selling your home and sell your home fast, that one little word at the end to make all the difference that fast word can make a huge difference in a market. So on Google, it comes down to the money that you have. It’s auction-based, it’s a big base. Granted you can out strategize people with some of those long-tail keywords and all of that. They both kinds of have the same conversion rate. If you look at it from a cost per Google’s always going, going to be a higher cost per lead is what we found in some markets, especially, like Northern California, LA things like that. Like you’re going to pay 250 to 350 a lead where you can get that on Facebook for 150.
but especially in Northern California, you’re dealing with a lot of tech companies that have all these are people that are clicking on your to drive your ads out of the space, using your daily budget up all of that on Google. But what we found is running the two together, really as a funnel makes the most sense. Because you’re getting these clicks from Google and not everybody’s converting, but they’re pretty high intent. And if you’re coming back around with your- If you have a Facebook pixel on the website, you’re able to drop them into your Facebook funnel and then retarget them and push them through that way. Vice-versa and Google banners and everything. Google banners never performed very well, but if you have enough traffic going, it will work well. Especially if you’re driving that from Facebook to and retargeting and Google banners and all of that.
So the main difference is one like it’s going to be more expensive on Google. They are higher intent. So the close rate is a little bit higher on Facebook. We’re seeing like a 10, 12% conversion rate on leads or basically 1 in 10 leads that fill out a long form of like you have 12 data points on these leads we make them fill out pretty long forms. So that’s why the conversion rates pretty good there. Same thing on Google, but Google is going to be a little bit more expensive, but you might have a conversion rate of one in seven leads turn into a deal. And your conversion rate varies based on what you can do with these leads. If you’re just buying and holding, you’re obviously going to have the lowest conversion rate, but if you can buy, hold to the list or you can flip wholesale, you’re going to have a higher conversion rate. So it really depends on what you can do with them, but those are the main differences that we’ve seen.
Jonathan Denwood: That’s great over to you Robert.
Robert Newman: So, I’m going to, I’m going to switch up with you for a second here and actually have you back up and talk about something that you talked about, in passing. So I do know who carrot is and carrot is the dominant player in the digital part of the, so if you’re talking about the Carrot and you’re talking about investors, Carrot would be the equivalent to agent image. For those of you who are listening to the show that residential real estate agents, dominate the real estate website space, they build a lot of different types of products in that space. Mostly what I’ve personally seen are kind of like one-page funnel websites that are connected to social media. And that’s what carrot has gotten very good at building, but they have thousands of these websites up. They are literally the major player inside that space. So you mentioned them in passing and you also said something about like, you talked for a minute, I think about the strength of their landing page. Do I recollect that correctly chad?
Chad Keller: Yes.
Robert Newman: Okay. So you’ve worked with them it sounded like to me personally, have you, you’ve done some business with him. You’ve interacted with them as a company.
Chad Keller: Yeah, we’re actually, yeah, yeah, we have.
Robert Newman: Okay. So what, just in case there happened to be people on this podcast that are thinking of using carrot or are using carrot or what just like a very top-level, what are the pros and cons of an investor or a team of investors using carrot as a vendor?
Chad Keller: So the pros of carrot is that if you’re running paid traffic and you’re just worried about leads like that’s your main focus. You want leads of high quality, and you want to push them through. And you want a quick site that you can throw up very quickly, without much thought behind it. Carrot is a perfect solution for you. Is dead on a great solution for you? There’s more than you can do with carrot, that you can make it look more robust than they have their templates built out, but you are going to have to bring in Devi or somebody to really make it look very professional versus just a basic carrot site. And the more professional site does do better on Carrot, but you are going to need that outside help to get around some code and everything.
The only con that, that we’ve seen, and I know they’re working to correct some of this and everything, is just from a brand aspect, from a company aspect. It’s not that like a huge company feel website. It’s more of a lead-generating website. They have the about us page. They have all these other pages and everything on this, but from a super robust design standpoint, I’ve seen some guys make their site look amazing, but I know how much from a Devi standpoint, they put into that site to look amazing. Whereas if you’re a larger company, that you might want to go with a more brand appealing site, look more professional within your area. But if you’re just worried about like, Hey, I just want leads and I want to close deals. Carrot is a great solution want to do it as quickly as possible. Sure. That’s the only downside that I’ve seen.
Robert Newman: Brilliant. So, so for everybody who’s listening, I don’t have a lot of experience with Carrot and I do I’m very much an expert on the real estate website, developers that focus on the residential real estate space chad. So I appreciate you contributing that. I legitimately have no retort, nothing to add. Don’t know that much about them. I’ve done a little bit of research on the owners of the company and I’ve certainly seen maybe, I don’t know, 10 or 15 of their websites, but I haven’t really dug into it because I don’t focus on the investment side that much. So I appreciate you being willing to give an opinion to our audience. I think that our audience is mostly residential real estate agents and brokers, but there are a healthy number of those people that invest like that. So there’s some crossover in, and, I’m talking to that crossover audience right now that might, that might be thinking,, we need a, you know, we need an investment website.
Chad Keller: I recently did a hybrid model for both. So you can sign up for a hybrid model. That’s like the investor and realtor side all in one website. And it does really well. I mean, again, from a leadership standpoint, everything it does really, really well.
Jonathan Denwood: I think it’s time to wrap up the show, podcast hopefully chad can stay on for 10, 12 minutes for bonus content you’re up for that chad
Chad Keller: Yeah. That works.
Jonathan Denwood: I wish they’d be able to see on the Mail-Right YouTube channel. So if you want to wrap up things, Robert, that’d be great.
Robert Newman: I do. And unless you had an idea, John, I know exactly what I’d like to ask Chad as we go to our break. Or as we come back and we get on YouTube, Chad, would you be willing to answer some global-like questions? John and I recently had a show where we talked about our personal feelings and thoughts about some of the privacy changes that are taking place at cookies, how that’s going to affect, Facebook and some of the privacy changes that are taking place in terms of browsing that are happening with Google. Neither John nor I, are what I would call necessarily paid strategy experts though. Neither one of us has managing millions and millions of dollars, of advertising budget. I’m an SEO guy, he’s a Facebook guy and we really haven’t reached that level. Whereas you have, would you be willing to answer some of those questions for us?
Chad Keller: Yeah, I mean, I will, to, the best that I can, I have been tracking it and seeing, seeing the differences since it has been released on 26th. So I can talk to it a little bit.
Robert Newman: Okay, perfect. So, ladies and gentlemen, that’s going to be what we cover on the bonus content, hope to see you there. Oh, one last thing, for those of you who are listening on the podcast, Chad, if somebody would like to reach out to you and, get in touch with you or figure out what, you know, take a look at what you’re doing, how would you like them to do that?
Chad Keller: Yeah, I mean the best way is just going to motivated Dash leads.com and check us out there. It really explains everything that we do. You can also find me on my just search Chad Keller and I’m located in Pittsburgh, PA. I’m so happy to connect with anyone and talk more about, hopefully, motivated seller leads,
Robert Newman: Right? And that’s motivated hyphened leads for those people listening. It may or may not make a difference. I don’t know, but, that’s what the website is. And John, if people, want to reach out to you or get in touch, how would they go about doing that?
Jonathan Denwood: Thanks, Robert, it’s really easy to just go to mail hyphen, right.com. And if you want a demo or a discussion about your seller leads with Facebook, you can just, book, an appointment with me, for a demo or a quick chat. And it’s really quite easy, but over to you, Robert
Robert Newman: Lovely. And for all of those listening to the show, if you’d like to learn a little bit more about SEO or me, you could go to inbound to ram.com and you’ll find out everything that you need to know there. And, if for some reason, you, you really want to take your life in your own hands and have a conversation with me. You can use my contact for all right. So thank you so much for tuning in to the main part of the show. We’re going to see those of you who are excited about bonus content on YouTube, under the Mail-Right YouTube channel and that’s Mail-Right. See you in a moment, folks.