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285 Mail-Right Show What Are The Best CRMs In 2021

We Look Into What Are The Best Real Estate Agent CRMs On The Market In 2021

In this episode of the Mail-Right Real Estate Agent Show, we discuss the best CRMs for real estate agents from KV-Core to Follow-Up-Boss we have a deep dive into the world of real estate agent focus CRMs with my host Robert Newman who is seen as a leading industry expert when it comes to CRMs.

learn something about SEO or anything related to online marketing, and you’d like to learn it for free from one of the guys that really does actually know it the best, go ahead and go to inbound rem.com. You can find out all that information for free and a whole bunch of other cool stuff. I don’t have time to mention it. So what John and I are going to talk about today’s episode is we have done a very deep, very technical dive with one of my favorite people. And I think quickly becoming one of John’s. Chris Anizewski who’s been on the show three times in a row and we covered a lot of ground. So John, why don’t you kick us off? Because I think we’re going to start off with recapping what we talked about with CRMs, right?

Jonathan Denwood: Yes. We really did a big dive on CRMs and who owns the data, you know you care for all this information. That’s what we discussed last week wasn’t it about a lot of agents don’t realize that if you own a platform, like Boomtown and we’re just, we’re not just singling out Boomtown. This applies to almost all of the CRMs that are out there or use something that’s provided by your broker that you don’t actually own the data that you put into the CRM. And I don’t know if you agree, don’t you Robert? That a lot of agents don’t know that and then the previous two shows that Chris came on we did a big dive in CRMs and what the best ones are. And I just thought, we’d just do a recap and get your thoughts. Cause I know you’ve done, you’re seen as one of the leading experts in the real estate agent around all these CRMs, I like to get your reflections on the conversations on what, how do you see the major differences in the CRMs that are available at the present moment?

Robert Newman: Sure. So I think that one of the things that I learned, even as a person that does know these tools pretty well, is that Chris kind of gave me the gift of refreshing my knowledge, why sometimes larger teams simply have to go with systems like KV core or, you know, it’s nice for guys like you and me to say, Oh, have you thought of follow up boss, but really there are certain things that those really big systems do at a global scale that you simply aren’t going to get. And the bigger the team, the more these kinds of one-off functionalities actually matter. Like when you start talking about 5 or 10 agents, lead routing is somewhat of a priority. When you talk about a thousand agents or 2000 agents or three to thousand agents at that point, you’re only going to be able to have two or three platforms you can even look at if you want that platform to help you with things like lead distribution. 

And God forbid should you want all of those agents, like, let’s say you’re going to move that team someplace. And all those agents need something that represents them on the internet. Let’s just say, you’re a brokerage out South and you’re not in one of the two East or West coast and your agents are not overly sophisticated on their own and I’m not knocking anybody that’s in this position. Let’s just say that they don’t have the ability to have a whole bunch of technical tools that they’re in charge of. Well, at that point, you really do want the most that you can possibly get for 20 or $30 a seat. And then at that moment, you really only can look at like KV core or one of those very large tools. 

Some of the things that Chris was pointing out, that I didn’t even know again, that I didn’t know myself is I knew that the data set that you could pull out of some of these CRMs was limited to the degree of how limited it was I honestly did not know. And so like, if you’re going to say, Robert, what did you take away? Oh my God, it refreshed my memory about why like every now and again, you, John I think you would relate to this. You talk to somebody and they’re spending, let’s say $10,000 a month with sink, whoever it is. And you’re like oh my God I can build your own website that you own. And you can give me half that budget and I can probably get you about the same results for lead generation. And they sit here and they think about it and they go, Nah, and you’re like, I don’t get it the website I’m going to build is better. We can do a better, you know, a better CRM or at least an equivalent CRM through follow-up boss. And we’re cutting your advertising budget in half and we still think we can maintain your results. Why in the world wouldn’t you switch? 

And you know, oftentimes you don’t get a clear answer, but if the answer was, I have a hundred thousand leads that I’ve spent $500,000 on or whatever the number is, and I’m going to lose half my data to my existing database If I try to export it or go anywhere else, and I don’t feel, or I don’t have the resources to start a completely different database. And now I’m marketing from two different places simultaneously. That makes sense to me, all of a sudden at the large team level, that’s a hard thing to argue with, like, if you’re a big team, because then their other option is to hire a high priced consultant like Chris, where you’re going to spend, that money on that resource. And all they’re going to do is basically do what he did with BoomTown and figure out some super clever way to get as much of your data out as possible, then transfer it to the new place and then make sure that everybody knows how to properly access the data. And if you’re talking about tens of thousands of records, Oh my God, I can only try to imagine the scope of that job.

Jonathan Denwood: Well, when it came to his example with boomtown, it wasn’t sometimes it’s actually they can’t export the data because the system was never built to allow it that’s unusual that does occur. Especially when you’re dealing with a legacy system, that’s been developed in-house for the brokerage you know, some of these large brokerages had custom-built software, CRMs built for them. And they were built quite a while ago. But they basically can’t export the data because it was never envisioned how to do it. But when it comes to Boomtown, it’s a totally artificial barrier because basically, they don’t want people to leave their platform. So they don’t offer a way of exporting the data out to the level that you would require. 

So if you say that you’re looking you, the to- that was useful, that was his kind of get around. Because he told them he wasn’t lying to them. Yeah He wanted to analyze the data and he wanted to do it on his own desktop, but he just didn’t tell him that after they did that they were planning to move to another platform. He just didn’t tell them that. So he wasn’t lying to them. And as soon as he said that they would allow the data to be exported. So it’s totally artificial, isn’t it?

Robert Newman: And yes. And you know what? I know you and I agree in this and everybody who’s listening, rant incoming. I’ve warned you all to turn off your headsets if you don’t want. But if you’re interested in my rant, here is one of my frustrations. This, what we’re talking about is literal data blackmail. It’s your data you’ve actually paid for twice because you have a cost to the platform that you already paid for. It’s a flat fee just to access the technology. And it doesn’t matter who we’re talking about. It’s universal. And then you’re paying for the data in the sense that you’re driving traffic to acquire leads. So now you’ve got two sources of investment that you’ve made and all of that investment is made actually to collect name, numbers, and information. And if you can get it search history and things like that.

So when you discover tools that don’t export that data cleanly or don’t import it cleanly, especially if they have the ability to, and you want access to your own data, guess what that is, that is literal blackmail, not figurative. They’re holding your data hostage as John said, and saying that they want a behavior out of you for that data it’s highway robbery. And honestly, if I had my personal druthers, any vendor that attempted that kind of behavior, which is unethical in my opinion, now, if you’re dealing with the technology that you’d like to change, and the technology itself, as John said is limited, and you just simply can’t get all the data out, but you’re trying your best to get it for a client. That’s a different subject. That’s a different subject entirely that there’s a limitation to what you’re using.


Jonathan Denwood:
I just want to make it clear that you know, people sign contracts, they’ve signed a contract? So what Boomtown’s position is nothing illegal about it, It’s not what I would do. I don’t think it’s what you would do, Robert, but it’s their position. They’re not the only one that has that position. I sleep very well at night Robert because I think I treat my clients in my two businesses, extremely fairly. I try and be as fair as possible. I’m sure there are some people out there that think I haven’t been fair. I consider them. They were taking the Mickey out of me. They were asking, but in general, I sleep very well at night, Robert. If I was pursuing that type of policy that we’ve just outlined I wouldn’t sleep so well.

Robert Newman: Right. And I’ve never really enjoyed working with companies that at one point or another justify the concept of treating their customers as second-class citizens. I don’t even like the ULA’s that we all have to sign for the big information technology companies, the company that I like the most If I’m honest with the audience is I like Google. It’s not that they’re the best or that they don’t invade our privacy because they [Inaudible 12:29] do. But they are extremely transparent. They’re less egregious than most of the other information providers out there. And they’re passive in the way that they use the data. In other words, you can go onto their tools and you pay for their advertising they’re not collecting. And they’re very transparent about the fact that collecting data. And oftentimes they’re giving you little tools, little things that you use such as Chrome our browser and say, hey, we’re tracking the data on here, but you don’t have to use our browser.

And it’s true. You don’t, there are other browsers out there. I use Chrome. John probably uses Chrome, but it is our choice. They give us a choice and Chrome is what collects the data. I don’t feel the same way about Facebook and its policies or WhatsApp or any of the Facebook companies. And so I really like, I just don’t think that most businesses are truly operating ethically in the sense that we’re trying to look out for our customer, like the customer’s best interest. And I think if I felt like if there was a revolution where the customer insisted on that, and that happened including in the real estate marketing industry, what you would discover is clients that were far more likely to trust vendors, a better relationship between, you know, vendor and client. And if you needed or wanted extra money, you charge it upfront for your services. Like if you say, Hey, I’m worth more than that. You don’t hook them into some hidden agenda in your contract. You just charge them upfront and say I’m worth it.

Jonathan Denwood: I just, I think we’re gonna go for our break. And then we come back, I’ve got a question for you about CRMs, and then we can power through the last 15 minutes. This is going to be a short one. We’re not going to do any bonus content this is going to be a short snappy episode. Folks we’ll be back in a few moments.

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Jonathan Denwood: We’re coming back. We’ve had a go a- I took over Robert, well, I’m sorry for that Robert, but, I went into podcasting mode, I’m going to let you end the show we had a bit of a go at boomtown and some of the others. I just wanted to see if you agree, how I see the landscape, you’ve looked at all these, I think there’s, let’s say for the individual agent for a power couple, maybe up to five agents. And I’m just using that as a wrapper. I think real geeks, bold lead I would include Mail-Right as well. They can be good products for an individual agent for a power couple or up to about five agents. How you put KV core into that mix. I’ll be interesting to- would you include KV core? Cause I know they brought out a new version, haven’t they recently haven’t they.  Would you put KV core into that mix of those three that I’ve mentioned as well?

Robert Newman: Not really. I really have started in my head to separate out solutions based on who’s doing the buying like team size and you know, you and other people are probably really, really like amazing good solutions for a single agent, single-agent users, maybe, maybe a small team, but probably single-agent users would be a sweet spot for those people. KV core is a big agent tool to me, like a big team tool. It’s not a smaller medium-size team because if you’re smaller, medium size, there are so many things that you could look at that would be so much better. I can’t in my head like even you and the other tools you just mentioned, they’re more cost-effective, they’re just as good on the feature side. They come with a better website, like seriously, why would you even look at it? I don’t get it.

So, but unless of course you’re with the XP and everybody that you know is using it That’s the one exception is that you’ve got somebody that is in an environment that is incredibly supportive of that particular tool. And you can get a lot of education about the tool from people that are around you at which point it makes sense to use the tool that everybody else is using because you have a built-in user base. And that is a huge piece just to end-user success is how much support do they get? It’s always one of the main keys to like real estate marketing tools, being successful-

Jonathan Denwood:  I just wanted to see if you, if we’re on the same [Inaudible 17:54 ] when it came to KV core, we are because  I see KV core, a lot of these digital brokerages like Alison James, there’s a number of them, and KV core has been very aggressive at selling their system especially these digital brokerages, but also brick and mortar, traditional brick and mortar brokerages as well. And then it’s given well it’s not given most agents have to pay a monthly amount to their brokerage to cover digital marketing tools. And in the quiver they’re given it aren’t they KV core, but I don’t think for the normal average agent, it’s a particular, effective product because I see it aimed more at people like Chris or something like comparable to Boomtown. Would you agree with that?

Robert Newman: Oh, well, I, I wouldn’t say that KV core is going to be a tool that Chris would probably ever look at seriously because he’s moved past that. I would say that there are plenty of teams and users, especially in the XP space where KV core still makes a lot of sense. I would say that’s one of the only environments though, like where, because you’ve got a cloud-based company using a cloud-based server with tons and tons of people inside, AKA EXP leveraging it. And so there are lots of little tricks like you could take a really bad tool and you could figure out some clever or interesting things ways to do with that tool and maybe figure out a very narrow way for a bad tool to get decent results. And I’ve seen some of that with KV core and some of the EXP users. So I’m going to say in this one set of circumstances. Sure but like, you’re talking about Chris such, he’s going to be moving on to, like, he already told us he’s going to be in follow-up boss. That’s the only thing that makes sense to anybody that understands technology.


Jonathan Denwood:
 Well if I was looking at that level, it would be the thing that I would choose. I wouldn’t even have any hesitation if I was looking. Now so we got the kind of real geek Bold Leads Mail right and there’s like half a dozen other Grant Wise has got his product weebly and there are about three or four other ones out there. And then you’ve got the follow-up boss, the boomtowns, we got the kind of mix level up kind of is KV core. But what in that middle ground between Bold Leads, Real Geeks, and then Boom town. What are some of the players in that middle area that you think are quite good?

Robert Newman: Are you talking about CRMs? 

Jonathan Denwood: Yes. 

Robert Newman: Okay. If it’s middle-tier players, I like line desk I like Brivity. if it’s we’re talking middle tier we’re, if we’re still talking middle tier, like a good all in one middle tier is chime though I’ve heard from more and more and more users that their service is getting buggy. So maybe take that with a grain of salt. I don’t know that I would personally walk into any company that has a lot of online dialogue about how buggy they are. And for that matter, I need to publicly update something. I’ve been hearing a lot of complaints and problems with Bold Leads, not necessarily on the CRM side, but on the customer service side. And they got acquired recently. So, John, that makes sense. Like sometimes people get acquired and they shift teams and people don’t seem to be as happy with what they’re getting anymore. I’ve checked the CRM It’s still the same. It’s still the same great CRM that we looked at. And I still love it as much as I always have, but what they’re feeding into it and how they’re servicing it doesn’t seem to be as good. So mid-tier, mid-tier let me see here. So I covered-


Jonathan Denwood:
So this chime what does these chime people provide?

Robert Newman: They provide a custom website and a CRM for about 500 bucks a month. And they’re kind of like the poor man’s version of everything that we’re discussing. They took a few design cues, UX design cues from real estate webmasters and threw them into their CRM, and basically built some of the same features. They have like life to death, lead trackability. They have a source of lead. They’ve got other things that are big, like big buttons on a dashboard and very intuitive for you to use, but ultimately in comparison to what other CRMs do, it’s a limited toolkit.  They have not developed like the expansiveness is, let’s say a sink or even a KV core, but they are the same price range as KV core. It’s $499. And they have like a really fast-growing user base, which I’m not sure how I feel about, because I think it’s yet one more of those things that all that glitters is not necessarily gold. And that’s how I feel about chime. 

And so, there is, let’s see mid-tier, well, I’m going to go a slightly different direction and say something we haven’t said much on, on the show. Okay. When I hunt for real estate CRMs online, and I say top real estate CRMs, it is shocking to me how few of the names that we talk about constantly actually come up in search. Okay. When you search for real estate CRMs, you get names that you’ve never heard of. You get, Capterra or not Capterra you get, keep like on that list, which is-

Jonathan Denwood:  The generalistic, CRM systems with big, big budgets. And you’re totally right. You know, top, but the other thing is, one we don’t mention, but historically it’s built up a massive user sizeable user base was, top producer. What was your thoughts about that?

Robert Newman: Oh God awful. Sorry for everybody listening to the show. I haven’t heard a good thing from any user past or present of Top producer and longer than I can remember, not one positive story or recommendation or one feature that anybody’s using. The only thing I can say about top producers that is positive that I personally know about is it integrates it’s one of the only pre-built integrations into IDX broker. And that’s just because IDX broker and hasn’t updated its partner program in a long time. And so it’s integrations. And so both companies really need to step up their game in terms of, and we’ve had Chad on the show, the CEO of IDX Broker.

Jonathan Denwood: You do realize they recently, recently sold the company.

Robert Newman: I did not. Are you kidding me? [Inaudible 25:17] broker.

Jonathan Denwood: Yeah, it was about two months ago.

Robert Newman: So instead of acquiring stuff, as he told us he sold it, he was telling us he was on an acquisition binge who bought them.

Jonathan Denwood: I forgot actually, but, they sent out a press release, which you must’ve missed. And he sold it they’re under new management.

Robert Newman: Well, here’s a few things I don’t want to lose track. So contextually is a big name. And when you do these searches, contextually comes up. And I do think that contextually is a mid-range solution. It’s never been my favorite, but it absolutely is I feel strongly that it is justified to have a mid-range position in a conversation about real estate CRMs. There’s also one solution that if you have a larger budget and a deeper technical background and a larger intent, and you own your own website, there’s one name that’s never on any of our lists, but I’m going to put it on there because I use them. And that is Hub Spot. Hub Spot is a brilliant platform, but it requires a very large degree of expertise to get into.

Jonathan Denwood:  if I was going to go down the Hub Spot, we are going to slightly disagree here. If I was looking at going down the Hub Spot, I would actually look at getting a follow-up boss set up for me, maybe hire a consultant. And if I was going to look at that kind of price range, but just to finish off, I want to ask you about the line desk. Because I did have the marketing manager on the show and I think he was before you became my, co-host and, it was very aggressively priced at the time. I think they put the prices up now but I think for time it’s like $40, but my own- I personally fought the interface was very confusing and they would literally, and it can’t be seen as part of the value proposition. They were literally thrown in the kitchen sink. They were literally thrown in every, not only the back ends but [Inaudible 27:34] calling functionality literally it was covering everything. So, I think when a product tries to become the total Swiss army knife, there’s the possibility that it’s the Jack of everything and the master of nothing.

Robert Newman: And that’s how I feel about line desk. I agree with the complexity. I agree with the confusing user interface. That’s why they don’t make it to the top of many of my discussions. I liked the direction that they’ve been going lately with focusing on video text and video emails, that isn’t so much that they’ve simplified the UX though, John, they just decided to get a little bit more clever with their marketing message. That’s the way I observe the change in strategy. It’s for like a clever shift in marketing message. It doesn’t necessarily improve the quality of the product. It just says they’ve got a bead on the one area of value that they can offer that a lot of these other services, can’t like text messages that include video and emails that include video seamless integration into BombBomb. But if you’re going to say user interface and all those things, no, they’re not even close to my, I wouldn’t even say the top.

 
Jonathan Denwood:
 Well, I think, we haven’t, we got some guests, in April but we haven’t got a guest next week so we can continue this discussion. I know you got some pressing things to sort out this week, so let’s wrap it up this show, Robert, and then we can continue the discussion next week. How does that sound Robert?

 
Robert Newman:
 Sounds wonderful. So ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming on or tuning in and listening to us today. My name is Robert Newman. I have been your fearless cohost. You can find out more information about me@inbound.rem.com. If you should so choose the founder of male, right. And the founder of this podcast and the guy that does all the heavy lifting for the show. And literally does every single little thing in the background behind the scenes is Jonathan Denwood, which is the other voice, the English voice, the lovely man on the other end of this show. So if you can go ahead and do us a favor, John, and say once again, how you’d like people to reach out to you. I’d appreciate it.


Jonathan Denwood:
Oh, that’s great. And thanks for that, Robert. It’s fairly simple. Just go to the mail right website and have a look at what we’re offering. I think we offer a lot, but I would also say, I think it’s a little bit more focused than Liondesk. We don’t try and provide almost everything we are focused on helping you with your digital marketing and getting leads that you can convert into cheques. And that’s our focus and always will be our focus. So let’s wrap it up.

Robert Newman: All right so, one last thing as we sign off here So Jonathan, and I we take us offline in one second, but ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, if you’d do us a favor if you see this on YouTube, please give us the thumbs up. Give us a comment on the YouTube channel. And if you happen to be listening to this on the Apple iTunes store channel, please, please, please give us a review. We have gotten one new one. Thank you so, so very much, to, a client of mine that, that did me a huge favorite went on there and give us a review, but we could use some more that’s it. John takes us home

286 Mail-Right Show: Why You Need a Personal Story

To Be a Successful Real Estate Agent in 2021 You Need a Powerful Personal Brand Story! What Your Personal Story? Read more

284 Mail-Right Show Special Guest Christopher Anuszewski
284 Mail-Right Show Special Guest Christopher Anuszewski

We Discuss all the leading Real Estate Agent CRMs & Does Your Data Belong To You? Robert Newman: Ladies and Read more

283 Mail-Right Show Special Guest Christopher Anuszewski
283 Mail-Right Show Special Guest Christopher Anuszewski

We Discuss all the leading Real Estate Agent CRMs In 2021 Robert Newman: Welcome back to the Mail-Right Show ladies Read more

282 Mail-Right Show Special Guest Kristina Smallhorn
Robert Newman: All right. Welcome back to the Mail-Right Show, we are graced with the presence of Kristina Smallhorn. She is a real estate rock star, she is a YouTube rockstar, she currently has a YouTube channel with 86,000 subscribers, she also runs her own Facebook group on how to do what she has already done on YouTube. We are super excited to have her here today, Kristina, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself directly to the audience? Kristina Smallhorn: Well, I'm glad you gave me about 3000 subscribers more than I actually have, I have 83,000 subscribers. I've been doing YouTube since 2017 and in 2019; I kind of cracked the code on how to actually get views and business from YouTube. I always was getting business from it, but after 2019, I was able to ramp that up by a lot with a lot of help. So, I'm in Louisiana, I'm a real estate agent in Louisiana, and I send out a lot of referrals throughout the United States. Robert Newman: Wonderful. So, for all of those people who are listening and John, I'm going to introduce you in a second, but I want to mix the show up a little bit. So, if let's say somebody was inspired just based on this introduction to try to, let's say, get in touch with you to trade referrals. How would you like them to do that? Kristina Smallhorn: Well, I have this YouTube group, Real Estate YouTube Mastermind on Facebook, and whenever I have a lead that I can't find a person for, I will put it in the mastermind group. And I will say, look, if you're a real estate agent within this area, give me a call, but there's a caveat, you have to have a YouTube channel. You can't just grab leads; you actually have to have a YouTube channel and a YouTube presence for me to give you a lead. Robert Newman: Amazing. So, for our listeners, for those of you or my followers, I have been recommending this YouTube channel since I came across it almost a year ago. I strongly recommend that anybody who's listening and is interested in YouTube, see if they will let you in. I've been lucky enough to be let in myself and I have constantly learned and constantly contributed to the channel when time is permitted. So, having said all that, John, my co-host extraordinaire, the creator of the Mail-Right Show and the Mail-Right leads system, is a web WordPress developer, extraordinaire. He's done some really cool things for real estate. So, John, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself? Jonathan Denwood: Oh, thanks, Robert. Yes, as Robert said I'm the founder of Mail-Right. It's a platform that generates quality leads and much, much more affordable, we're a closed team and we're dedicated to getting you the kind of results you're looking for. If that sounds interesting, go over to mail-right.com and have a look at what we have to offer, book a free consultation demo with me, it will be done personally by myself. And we hope that you join the tribe and join Mail-Right, back over to you, Robert. Robert Newman: Thank you, John. So, my name is Robert Newman, I am an anomaly in the real estate industry, I focus on SEO and inbound marketing strategies, which kind of tend to focus on a long-term value other than the short-term syrup that so many other real estate lead generation companies do. But regardless, what I really focus on and why I'm excited to talk to Kristina is I focus on the value of information and how you present that to the world, and perhaps turn that into something that you can start a conversation with. So Christina, without any further ado with this huge audience that you have, John served up the first topic to me prior to us going live. How do you feel about the state of the real estate market as it exists today? That is the topic, right, John? Did I get the question correct? Kristina Smallhorn: Well, currently I have to say that this is probably one of the craziest real estate markets that I have seen in my lifetime. I was new to the real estate business when the first housing crash hit and it was very clear on what was going to happen, they had given out these crappy loans, people are doing this interest only nonsense, nobody had any skin in the game, you had stated income; of course it was going to fall apart. What people don't know is that a loan package had been available for eons before it actually became one of these things that were like, everybody got a loan on it. And then, sure enough, it took us 10 years to get out of that nonsense, now we're seeing this thing, where housing prices are going up exponentially and there're a few reasons for that. I'm actually going to be doing a video on this really soon, but it isn't just the supply and demand, of course, that's one of the problems, but there're some other little things that people don't know about, especially in major cities. I know that some people are like, there is going to be no crash, real estate is going to be fine, quit doing this, but these numbers, these prices are not sustainable. And so, whenever you get them off the blog posts that they're writing, or you're talking to these analysts behind the microphone where they have it on mute, they're like these prices can't last, but whenever they're talking on screen, they're saying something completely different. And I guess as quickly as they're trying to project the image that the housing market is fine because they want to continue to get people to buy houses. I don't know, I think that the supply will definitely increase this coming spring because more people are getting vaccinated and they're feeling more comfortable about opening their house up to strangers. I think a lot of the supply problem was people were thinking about selling and they're like, yeah, I could sell, but I don't want a bunch of people in my house, this is the wrong time. So, I think the supply will increase, I do, and I do think that there's going to be foreclosure prices, not this year, maybe at the end of 2022 into 2023 as the moratoriums, I'm sorry, not the moratoriums, but the forbearances come to. There're going to be people who still don't have jobs, there're going to be people that haven't paid and can't catch up and I think there's going to be an issue, that's my personal belief. Robert Newman: All right. John, what do you think? Jonathan Denwood: Well, I think I've been really interested in the things that you've been saying on your channel and I think it's just an extremely confusing situation. I think you are probably right, what is the variable is how big that adjustment's going to be, and really that's out of our hands, that’s in the hands of the federal government. This situation is artificial as it is because it's been totally caused by enormous amounts of money being pumped into the economy, but that money only really benefits the top 10 or 20% of the population. And that enormous injection of money has caused, we've seen hyperinflation, but only in certain assets, and that inflation pressure's been seen in housing because of the liquidity that's been pumped into the economy. Fundamentally, but the only problem with those that are likely in you, and I was saying to you before the show, my great love of Ken McElroy, his videos as well, is that the only problem of our position, Kristina is that we don't know what the federal government, because they're a one-trick pony. Their only answer to anything is just to print more money and give it to the top 20% of the population, that seems to be their only solution for anything. Kristina Smallhorn: And this is what makes it even more alarming. So, the uprise in prices are as high as they've ever been in a long period of time in most areas, some have gone up 25% from the year before and investors are still buying houses. And do you know why? Because they want to get their money into real assets and out of cash, they don't want cash anymore because they're like cash is becoming more and more worthless. So, this is not a good thing, and what people don't realize as well is that for the poorest of America, those people that live in manufactured homes are the same people that would have really benefited from the mortgage moratoriums. And they would have really benefited from the rental moratoriums, but they didn't get that because they have something called a chattel loan and chattel loans didn't get that reprieve. And since a lot of them are renting the land underneath that they still had to pay the lot rents and those are the same people that were most likely to lose their job or go down to one income. What are those people supposed to do? So, do you know what happens? Is the investors just come and scoop them all up and they make a mint, so the poor get poorer and the rich get richer, and to me, it's just like a deck of cards, we're just holding it together, I'm just waiting for one big blow and it's just all going to fall apart. To me there's a financial great divide that has happened and it's getting bigger and bigger and the middle-class is non-existent, it's just either you're poor or you're rich, that's my opinion. Robert Newman: All right. Well, I'm going to throw [Cross-Talking 10:21]. Jonathan Denwood: I'm just going to disrupt this part of the show. I wouldn't quite put it in that terms, but I think that fundamentally you are correct. I think there is going to be a readjustment because I think to inflate it much more would need such an enormous figure that even the Biden administration would take a second look, basically, it would be such a shocking figure. Kristina Smallhorn: His proposed plan though, before he was elected, was to give a $15,000 tax credit to first-time homebuyers, what a stupid plan, we don't have any houses available. So, now you're going to increase what people could have afforded as first-time home buying for $15,000, now that's going to make it out of their ballpark even further, we do not have the supply of houses to allow for that to happen. Like that was just a dumb proposal. Jonathan Denwood: Yeah, but I don't know if you saw Ken's last YouTube episode, he points out that the National Real Estate Associations says that a healthy supply is about six months’ supply. And at the present, we've got less than two months’ supply by his figure, but about a year ago, we had about three month's supply and that's gone down to almost one and a half months supply. And then when you look at all the people that are upside down on their mortgage and their other factor, even if you just cut that by 50%, you're really generous. You cut it by 50% by government intervention, basically, they enable people to kick the problem down the road a bit more, and this still leaves 1.5 million people that won't be able to kick it down the road. You bond that and you end up with a figure of over one year supply of housing and if you get to that figure, you will have a sizeable reduction in price, and I follow his logic. So, I don't see a total collapse because I just don't think the government would allow that but on the other hand, I don't think the government could pump enough money to stop an adjustment. So, I do think there's an adjustment, but how big that adjustment, will it be similar to what you saw between 2008 and let's say 2013. I would doubt it because I don't think the government would allow that, his ability to stop any adjustment, I doubt it, but, you don't want to listen to me, ladies and gentlemen as I am no advisor. Kristina Smallhorn: Oh, I'm not a studying financial advisor, but I do want to ask you this, what would you consider a crash? What amount of equity would someone have to lose in their home for you to consider it to be a real estate crash? Jonathan Denwood: Oh, it depends on who it affects because the banks are really why they've been asking a lot of people for 20% deposit, and the government's been asking for that. So, I think we're looking at an adjustment of between 20 and 30% but if it looks like it's going to get a lot worse because without the government reentering the market again, to subsidize it, which politically they're going to be forced to do. I could see it going down by 50, 60, 70%, I could easily see that but I think the government is going to enter it, but it will still mean a reduction between 20 and 30%. Kristina Smallhorn: And that would be a crash to you? Jonathan Denwood: That would be an adjustment in price. Kristina Smallhorn: Adjustment, you won't say a crash? Jonathan Denwood: Well, I call a crash If they won't intervene, the market is gone above 2008 levels, it's only government intervention as it is that maintains it. If the government wasn't prepared to do anything, actually, I could see it getting worse than the 2008-2009 crash. I could actually see prices going to their lowest level going below because the market is so inflated, but in political terms, the government could not allow that to happen. Kristina Smallhorn: Okay. Robert Newman: I'm going to throw in another opinion here, guys. So [Cross-Talking 15:33]. Kristina Smallhorn: Everybody has them. Robert Newman: Everybody has them. So, I do think that the market, I agree with the adjustment assessment, I don't know that I agree with all the math. I can tell you though, as I'm not sure how long you've been selling real estate, Kristina, but I've been in the real estate marketing industry since 2007. I actually got in at the middle of the crash and was running away from the mortgage industry at the time and got into technology but my bad luck was I got into technology for real estate. So, there was nothing happening like my clients which were people like you, if you're selling real estate, didn't have any money because the banks weren't able to make notes on the homes that they were selling. So, it didn't matter if you had a transaction or 10 or 15, you couldn't get them financed, there were no banks lending for those homes, which is what ultimately led to the real estate crash; is that you really couldn't get the financial institutions to make a movement. Or if you could, it was almost always a private arrangement that was specialized; all the big banks were closed down, almost universally. So, I don't see that happening, the banks are fine, they're going to continue to write loans; what I do think is happening is I think that real estate is wildly overpriced. And I can't speak to Louisiana because I don't live there and I'm not tracking that market, but I can speak to California, which is where I'm currently located, and our property prices are, the house that I moved into, I want to say seven years ago was priced at 335, it is now worth 775,000. It is a 1500 square foot bungalow, so if I went out and sell today, this little house that I couldn't sell in Louisiana for $75,000, no joke, would be worth $775,000, it is ridiculous. I love my house, but it's not a $775,000 house, it's just not, it's not a million-dollar home. Kristina Smallhorn: And you live in California and what is happening to all these major cities like Austin, Texas, Dallas, Texas around Phoenix, Arizona, even New Orleans, all these major cities have had an influx of Californians coming in. And because you sold your house for $300,000 over what you purchased it for, you have cash in hand and these Californians are driving up the market price exponentially. Exponentially to the point wherein Austin, in some areas, it's just absolutely insanity what people are getting for their houses over asking price, paid in cash, because they have these very cash-heavy California buyers. I don't blame the sellers for taking either, like, do you want to pay me more than my house is worth, have at it? Jonathan Denwood: Oh, Kristina, before we go for our break, and we go on to the happier topic of YouTube. Just before we go to our break, can you just give us a brief, what you feel in your heart is going to happen to the real estate molecule in the next one year to an 18-month period? Kristina Smallhorn: I believe that by the end of the summer, we're going to start seeing a not cooling effect, but at least more supply of homes on the market. I believe after June when the moratoriums are done with the mortgages or not, I keep saying moratoriums, forbearance is done with the mortgages that we'll have an increase of people that don't have a job that cannot pay. And that's going to take months for foreclosures to get into the gears of banks, and so I do believe there're going to be a lot more foreclosures, but one thing that people don't realize, is that a lot of these major cities like Austin, Texas, and all these other areas. Is that you're not going to see a lot of those foreclosures because you know who's buying them, the big tech companies and they're renting them out to their employees. So, if you're counting on the fact that there's going to be a wave of foreclosures, I just don't see it in the next couple of years, it could possibly happen in 2023. I am hopeful that some intervention will be done and we will escape through this once again, I just hope it doesn't take 10 years to get through it; like we did the last time because it was 10 years. Robert Newman: John, before we go to break, I just want to finish my thought. So, for those of you who are listening, I've said this in emails to my followers, I'm going to say it directly on the show. I think that in 2021 and into 2022, we're going to see record years in real estate, I personally believe that we're going to continue to see absolutely historic highs. I think that what Kristina said about people becoming comfortable showing their home is probably 50% of what is currently dragging the market down, a lack of available inventory. And the moment the vaccine gets fully distributed, I believe that a lot of people who've been sitting on the fences are going to look at property prices, are going to get comfortable, and they're going to put their homes on the market, which is going to give us a glut of inventory right in the middle of this year that we're in. So, just in a few months is what I believe, then we're going to see a record number of transactions, because I personally know 10 or 15 people that can't buy a home right now because they can't find anything that they can get their hands on. So, there're a lot of people who've been trying to buy who can't, because they're getting outbid. As Kristina said by people, I'm on the phone with realtors every single day, Kristina, and I know you are talking to them too, inside the group because I follow those conversations. So, my clients directly are telling me that they have buyers offering $50,000 above the list and are getting rejected, so those people are still out there looking for homes. They have money in hand, it's not like they're going away, they're probably just getting more aggravated and more interested in buying a home. So, when something comes up, they're going to snap it up, and we have a lot of that momentum that high leverage momentum going. Now, beyond that I do think that we're probably looking at an adjustment because the country needs one, that's my simple philosophy. It's not a matter of, I'm not going to look at all the numbers and things that you guys look at, I'm just going to say, we need an adjustment, actually. It's not going to hit our profession, all of ours very well but then again, you have to look at the people and what they need and people need affordable homes to get into, that's the bottom line. Like everybody here, except for me as a homeowner and so, I know you are probably, and I know John is for sure, so you have guys like me who have the income who can't buy a home right now. And at some point, you have to give us an opportunity to get into the market because I don't have a million bucks. Jonathan Denwood: So, shall we go for our break, Robert? Robert Newman: Yeah, let's do it. All right. So, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to be back in a few minutes. We're going to move on to the topic of YouTube, which Kristina is an unqualified expert in; she's really one of the very, very best in this category. She's done more if you're looking at what she has accomplished? She's probably in the top 2 or 3% of producers that I am personally aware of that make videos for YouTube, so I'm super excited to get into this. Stay tuned, we'll be right back. Ad: Do you want quality leads from homeowners and buyers right in your own neighborhood, then you need Mail- Right? It is a powerful but easy-to-use online marketing system that uses Facebook to generate real estate leads at a fraction of the cost you'd pay from our competition. We stand behind our work with a no-questions-asked 30-day money-back guarantee, so don't delay get started today, go to mail-right.com. Robert Newman: Welcome back to the Mail-Right Show ladies and gentlemen, we are here with Kristina Smallhorn. We are going to get into talking about YouTube, and we're extremely excited about it, so John, since you were kind enough to preplan for the show, why don't you serve up the first question. Jonathan Denwood: Yes, so Kristina, you said yourself that you've been YouTubing, I think that you said from 2017, but you said it was only when you got around 2019, I think in your own words, you said you cracked the code of YouTube. What is that code? Could you give us some insights into how that road to Damascus moment that enabled you to build your YouTube channel? Kristina Smallhorn: So, let me preface this by saying that I had a lot of help. And so, I won a contest where I got to meet with a YouTube coach who represents some of the largest channels on YouTube, and he looked at my channel and he was like, yes, you've done all the SEO research. This is a perfect SEO channel for YouTube search, I'm like, thank you, and how come I'm not getting any views? And he said because you're a perfect SEO research channel, and I'm like, well, okay. So, what do I need to do? So he said, you really need to focus in on your audience, you basically have a spaghetti against the wall method. His name's Darrel Eves, by the way, I'm not going to hide his name, Darryl Eves. He says you have a spaghetti against the wall method, you just kind of keep putting out more real estate videos, but none of them are connecting to one another, really speak to that one ideal audience member, talk to the camera, just like you're talking to them and tell them exactly what they need to hear about real estate. Instead of doing something about sellers and something about buyers and something about owning a home and something about maintaining your home, you're all over the place, focus. And so, I started focusing, he told me to really concentrate on my video titles; I was doing this thing that a lot of YouTube coaches will tell you to do. Which was keyword stuff, or double title your videos, total nonsense, stop doing that nonsense, tell people what the video is about and make a good title that people are going to click on. And then the thumbnail, I have to tell you, and I'm going to being completely honest, real estate agents are probably one of the worst niches for thumbnails in the world. Terrible, everybody has the same thing where they throw their one picture, their face on one side, and they throw a bunch of words on the other side. And I learned that if you can convey a thumbnail without using any words whatsoever, you've won the thumbnail game, if you can convey that title in that thumbnail, without using any words on the thumbnail, you've won, and then just learning and studying [Cross-Talking 26:21]. Jonathan Denwood: Would you reckon, Kristina, do you think that I have an expressive face? Kristina Smallhorn: Absolutely, absolutely. There isn't a person in the world, everybody always says I don't know if I look great enough on camera, who gives two flying poops, not everybody is model perfect. I know that I'm not and I don't give a crap, I'm over 45, the youth bug has left the building and I get it, so who cares? I'm throwing in some good lights and call it a day, and if anybody has a problem with me that, whatever but I don't really necessarily like my voice either and I'm a goofball. So, I try to be as honest with people as possible, and when I mess up, I tell them that I messed up with something and I'm just as real as I could possibly be with my audience. And that's what I do, I enjoy YouTube very much, it's a puzzle and every time you think that you've really cracked their code, there're some videos that I'm like, oh, this one's going to do great, and it does poop. So, you really have to be like, step back, look at your analytics and see what happened, it was at the beginning of your video that made people click off, was it the middle of your video that made people click off? What was it about that video? Is it the thumbnail? Is it the title? What was it? And if anybody tells you it was the tags that you used in your video, no, it's not the tags, that's horse pucky, the tags, literally this came from YouTube itself. The tags are literally the very last thing out of all the sea of information that YouTube uses, the tags are literally the last thing, very last thing. Robert Newman: I agree with all of that, I'm going to say one thing, I'm going to add something on, and maybe I'll phrase it in the form of a question. So, I've been very blessed, Kristine, I've had a chance to talk to YouTube influencers, well, well, before it became popular. One of my oldest consulting clients is 10 years old and he made a mint off YouTube while most real estate agents were looking at him and me, like, we're absolutely off our fucking rocker. He's in the hyper, hyper, hyper luxury segment of the market, and he's in LA, so this is the place that everybody thought, even if YouTube worked, it's going to work someplace else, it isn’t going to work here, it's not going to work here for hyper luxury leads and they were wrong. But here's the thing that I felt then, I've proven, I think, which is, you mentioned something about lighting, you mentioned something about your age, you mentioned something, and I don't know what you get in your consultations with real estate agents. But in my consultations, I'm constantly being hit with what John hit us with; do you think I have a noteworthy face? Here's what I've always felt, concentrate on your message, concentrate on figuring out something that you're very passionate about talking about, that you feel you're an expert in, something where you really feel the information that you have will be helpful to somebody watching the video. I swear to you in my opinion, and I want to hear what yours is, is that if you hit the right note in terms of the information, yes, there's going to be a certain of people that turn off the video, because maybe you're not young and hot. Or there're going to be a certain number of people that may turn off the video or engage with the video because you're not young and hot. Regardless, I feel people connect with the information first and the energy of the person second, and if those two things are in place, you're going to be successful. What do you think? Kristina Smallhorn: Well, there're two things that I want to say, that there are successful channels that never show their face, they do a lot of voiceover work and they have successful real estate channels. So, if you're just that mortified, that when you get in the camera because my husband is one of these people, when he gets in front of the camera, for some reason, he has that dead stare and he's completely dead inside, and his voice sounds just as dead. So, if you're happy and you can get across it without looking in a camera and you can just talk to the microphone and give that information with lots of B roll footage, then just do it that way. If that's the way that you can get your message across, do it that way, I know that a lot of real estate coaches will say, oh, but your face is your brand, no, it's not. It doesn't necessarily have to be that way, it's just kind of the same thing with thumbnails, everybody was like, oh, and you have to put your face on every single thumbnail, that's what the YouTube coaches would say. The YouTube real estate coaches, you have to put your face on there, that's your brand, well, that's hogwash because I have plenty of videos with over millions of views that do not have my face on them because people want to hear about the house. They can care about two flying flips, who I am, and that is another thing is that you have to take your ego out of it if you are one of those people that you're totally in love with yourself, and you're like, I'm going to be all over it. Well, guess what, nobody really cares who you are and how many houses you sold and what your GCI is and your ROI, and nobody gives two flying flips, just stop talking about yourself and give them the information that they want. And that's the thing that always cracks me up, it cracks me up. Jonathan Denwood: I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the podcast part of the show, Robert, and go on to the bonus content. Robert Newman: All right. So, ladies and gentlemen, it's been an amazing show, we've talked about the state of the market; we hope that you're not too depressed. And then we've talked about YouTube, Kristina, I hope you'll stay on for an extra 10 minutes because I'd kind of like to ask you some questions, like a brand new agent, how do you brand yourself on YouTube? That's the topic, if you're willing to stay with us for a few extra minutes, that's what I'd like to talk about. Kristina Smallhorn: Sure. Robert Newman: Lovely. So, for those people who were tuning in, I already asked this question originally, I'm going to ask one more time, Kristina, how would you like people to get in touch with you? Because I know if I was a real estate agent, I would be trying to. Kristina Smallhorn: I do have a Facebook group that I run with Malcolm Lawson and it's called Real Estate YouTube Mastermind, you don't have to buy a course or anything like that. And everybody in there are real estate agents that are willing to help one another out, we talk about our thumbnails and our titles. And we work together even on our lighting as long as I've been doing YouTube, I still couldn't get my lighting quite right. And I finally got it right in here, but that's because I had a relationship with all the other real estate YouTubers in there, so yeah, join it. It's fun, it's free and a lot of them have said, this is the only reason why they come on YouTube is because of our group, I mean come on Facebook is because of our group about YouTube. Robert Newman: So, I'm going to throw in here, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and John this is the most helpful, most profitable group that I'm currently aware of. I think that I've watched more real estate agents make more money than any other group that I've ever been a part of and I'm part of most of the big ones, Ylopo Success Community, Lab Coat Agents, you name it, I'm part of most groups. This one is the one where I really watched the needle get moved for agents trying to do something different, and the best part, in my opinion, is, it’s leveraging video. Which even if he took YouTube off the map, video is still the wave of the future in terms of the way that people are buying and selling almost anything, actually, it's not just real estate, but specifically for real estate. So, please go join the group, as long as they'll let you in, John, if somebody wanted to reach out to you [Cross-Talking 34:19]. Jonathan Denwood: Do you think Kristina is going to let me in? Robert Newman: No, because she's smart. No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm just joking, I'm totally joking. Of course. I don't know, ask her. Jonathan Denwood: Be generous, let me in. Please, sir, please, sir, can I have some more, please? Kristina Smallhorn: I have a question for you. Jonathan Denwood: Can we wrap up the podcast part of the show and then go on to the question in the bonus, do you mind? Robert Newman: Hold it for one second, John; finish up with how we get ahold of you. Jonathan Denwood: The best way is to just go to the Mail-Right website and you can contact me through the contact form, phone me up or book a demo, it's really easy to get hold of me. Robert Newman: And ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, should you want to learn something about SEO or inbound marketing, if you have a burning question about any platform that's out there, CINC, BoldLeads, and Boomtown. If you want to know what my take is on YouTube or how I consult with my clients for free in order to leverage YouTube, you can find out all of that information and much more, more at inboundrem.com. And I'm going to emphasize, it's just an informational resource; I strongly recommend that anybody listening to the show goes ahead and leverages it. All right, with that, we're going to wrap up the podcast part and then I'm anxiously awaiting the question that Kristina has, I'll catch you in a moment for those of you who are going to join us on video on the mail-right.com website or YouTube channel.

Your Real Estate Whisperer & YouTube Rockstar I am “Your Real Estate Whisperer” for Ascension Parish. What that means to Read more