#145 Mail-Right Show We Interview Phil Singleton of SEO For Growth
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We discuss all things SEO with focus on the real estate industry!
Phil has written several award winning and best-selling books on lead generation, search engine optimization and web design. Forbes named Phils book SEO for Growth (seoforgrowth.com) as the #1 SEO book to read for entrepreneurs. It’s been endorsed by over 50 of the world’s top marketing experts, and listed as a top marketing book by Inc., Mashable, Oracle and The Huffington Post.
Here’s a Full Transcription of Our Interview With Phil
Jonathan: Welcome back folks to the Mail-Right Show. It’s episode 145. We’ve got a great guest here folks. We’ve got Phil Singleton here and he wrote a book called SEO for Growth and we’re going to have binge about how we can get you great SEO which leads to great leads. Phil, would you like to quickly introduce yourself to the audience?
Phil: Yeah. So my name’s Phil Singleton. I’ve been running a small boutique agency based in Kansas City here for the last 12, 13 years, very unconventional path to digital, basically almost flunked out of Computer Science in college. I got an insurance company job right out of school. That didn’t last long because I was miserable. Ended up moving to Asia for like 10 years. Towards the end of that stint, I got introduced to SEO and the Internet stuff, just basically an opportunity fell into my lap and I kind of learned SEO and a little bit of Web Design on the fly. Flash forward a little bit from that time, in 2005, moved back to Kansas City. Didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I was 35 years old at the time.
I ended up doing a barter website for an auto detailer. I didn’t know what I was doing. I literally didn’t know what I was doing. I mean, I was like, “I can’t do this.” I’ve seen SEO work at this company I was working for before and I figured, “Hey. You know what? If I can’t do this for this guy on my own, if I can’t self-study my way to a one-page website, I’ll hire somebody to do it.” But I ended up doing it. About 60, 90 days later, you know, this is back in 2005 and if you just put a little bit of effort, it’s pretty easy to rank stuff. It’s a little different game right now. But it happened. He ranked really quickly and the guy went from making $25 a car selling these really, almost making nothing to auto detailers to being able to sell $200 details to the retail market. So, he called me up and said, “Phil, you changed my business, you changed my life.”
And I was like, “Boom, 35, I finally know what I want to be when I grow up. I’m going to be a Web Design and SEO guy.” And that’s what happened. That one little barter website has turned into literally hundreds of custom websites that we’ve done now. We’ve scores of SEO clients and I’ve gone off now trying to do my own personal branding and authority and book writing. It’s funny because I’m an introvert by nature. So, 5 or 6 years ago, before Penguin and Panda and all these things came out, I always liked to do stuff from the bat cave without ever showing my face. But again, it’s a different world right now.
Jonathan: All right Phil.
Phil: Now we’re putting ourselves, we’re on podcasts, we’re writing books, we’re doing all sorts of stuff. We’re putting our face everywhere and that’s just the way it is now. So that’s my story.
Jonathan: Oh that’s right Phil. You’re introverted all right. I’d like to introduce my co-host, Robert. Robert, would you like to introduce yourself quickly.
Robert: Sure. I’m the founder of Inbound Real Estate Marketing. I have spent the last 10 years focusing on becoming an Online Marketing expert, specifically within the vertical of Real Estate. I have also founded a service-based company that builds websites and does SEO called inboundREM. But if anybody is interested, just go to the website. I have massive amounts of content there so everybody can check that out.
Jonathan: That’s great. And I’m the founder of Mail-Right. We’re a Marketing software platform that’s specifically aimed at the Real Estate industry and agents like you and we get quality leads for you, mostly through also combining our efforts with Facebook. Back to Phil. So, Phil, the main thread of this episode is going to be SEO, Search Engine Optimization and websites. So, in the industry, there’s a few people saying that you don’t really need a website. It doesn’t really matter anymore or you can just use the kind of one-page template that your broker provides you and that’s fine. What do you think about some of these people saying that and why do you think, if you do think, it’s still really important in branding and in SEO and in Marketing in general for an agent to look at having their own website?
Phil: Well, I think it’s really important because I think there’s different ways to skin the Digital Marketing cat. And the way that we do it, first of all, we’re all website companies now. It’s one of the things I look at. And it’s really tough for somebody that believes a website is kind of an asset versus a digital brochure type of a thing that you would try and put your content up somebody else on a one-page or treat it like a digital brochure. Because really, the way that we found a win for ourselves and for our clients and just looking at other people that have done it is to create a website that’s your own asset that becomes a Marketing platform for yourself, but also the referral source for all of your content. So, one of the things that drives me crazy about Marketing in digital and in general today, is you see a lot of folks still their websites as kind of static digital brochures or they’ll do the one-page thing and they’re just looking for the most cost-effective thing to have a digital like business card out there. And if they invest anything on content, they put their best stuff up on somebody else’s platform where it kind of just is seen in real-time maybe and then kind of passes through that river of real-time and then never gets documented somewhere where it can be an answer to somebody’s question or build SEO equity up.
So, we only try and tell everybody, say, “Hey. Your website is a digital asset. You should put all your best content on there and share it out that way. Bring it back to you Marketing hub where you can do things.” Like I’m sure you guys have talked on the show about re-targeting in your Facebook Pixel and AdWords re-targeting and where you can have Call to Actions and all sorts of stuff so you can build your website asset more. And the more you build it out, the more SEO equity it gets, the more traffic it gets, the more it ranks in search engines and you have this asset that becomes a lead generator for yourself, again, than just a digital brochure.
Jonathan: That’s around the other topic that we wanted to discuss which is evergreen content. And what we mean by that folks is that there’s content that you can produce which Google will find extremely attractive which you don’t have to constantly change. You can just leave it and then periodically update it. Where do you see the importance of evergreen content when it comes to an agent website that’s trying to attract local leads in a specific area or community, Phil?
Phil: So I’ve got two ways that we approach this. One, I do think kind of the evergreen and we can even marry that up with something that’s more authoritative in terms of being longer form content, being really educational, almost more like a guide or something where somebody can actually get educated and read through it, just be a longer from prose. We try and do more of those for ourselves and for our clients maybe once a quarter or more. Because I do think it’s still really important. I’m always trying to find ways to hack into results where you can get maybe 10 times ROI versus one time ROI. Again, this is another problem I think with digital in general is everything, a lot of times is done without a strategy, it’s kind of in this 1-dimensional way. But getting back to blogging and evergreen content, I think it’s really important for most small businesses, local businesses to be able to publish at least one decent consumable piece of content on their website at least once a week.
So, in our case, we’ll publish up on our website or a client website. Let’s say, use something like SNAP Auto Poster and Schema plugin where you can dress it all up, do all the online SEO, hit publish and then have it distributed out to multiple social media channels without having to do a whole lot of extra work. You almost kind of put that stuff on autopilot. So you can grow it out, work on long tail keywords and stuff like that where you can try and get some better local search based on a keyword research.
Robert: You’re going really fast.
Phil: Sorry man.
Robert: And also, another thing about our audience is that in my experience, 10 years of doing this, like half the words you’re using, Realtors aren’t going to be able to keep up.
Phil: Or I’ve got to dial it back. I’ve got to dial it back.
Robert: So, one of those things that you just said that I want to touch on, actually, there’s a whole bunch, but I’m going to stop you and I’m going to say I don’t subscribe to your theory, just so that you know. I subscribe to Brian Dean‘s theory of content. I put out content maybe once every other month. What I focus on is super high quality, much longer form content. But you said three different things in the span of a single like burst statement there. You said one, you want to throw up something once a week. Two, you want to promote it out, but you said you want to grow it out for long tail keywords. I honestly don’t even know what you mean by that. Are you saying that you take the same piece of content and you keep working on it? Like you produce it every week then you go back and fine tune it based on keyword recognition. Is that what you meant?
Phil: That’s a great point. So, we want to do a couple of things with our blogging strategy. One is, the way we do things, it really all comes back to keyword research. I think it’s still important. It’s not a deprecated strategy. You really have to know what people are searching for and what your ideal clients are searching for and any content that you build on your website, I think has to come back to keyword research and then finding ways to naturally bake that into your site or to use that to come up with content. So, once you’ve got the keyword stuff worked on, you’re constantly, I guess, trying to figure that out or modify it or tweak it.
Jonathan: And before you move on actually Phil, can you give our audience what you mean by keyword research? Can you just give a quick 101 outline why that’s important? Because like what Robert says, a lot of our audience are really interested in this subject, but they’re not experts in any shape or form, Phil.
Phil: Right. So, couple suspects. One is if I’ve been able to sell people or get them to understand or believe or subscribe to the fact that your website is or should be looked at as a Marketing asset and it makes sense to invest and build pages or put content on it over time and document basically the work that you do and your knowledge through your website and essentially through your blog, then having keyword research to where you put new content on your website makes a lot of sense because it tells you where to focus on. So where do you go in terms of keywords? Well, a lot of times when you say, “Hey, Phil. I hear what you’re saying about blogging,” they just figure, “Okay. I’m just going to start writing blog posts and putting more posts, more is better.” Well, it’s not necessarily like that, I think, unless you’ve actually done some research on who your ideal clients are and what types of keywords that they use to search when they’re looking for answers or products or services that are related to what you’re doing.
So, if you wanted to start blogging more for your local Real Estate market, well, it would make a lot of sense to use a keyword tool to try and see if you can get any insight on to the way people are actually searching for Real Estate services wherever it is, in Kansas City, whatever market that you’re in. And there’s lots of tools you can use to do that. There’s ones you can pay for like SEMrush or. But there’s also some pretty cool tools like with an AdWords. I use Keyword Planner a lot. AdWords is obviously the PPC, click platform that Google uses to make all its money. You can go in there, especially if you have an established account or used it before, but it’s a free tool. You can go and actually start typing in a couple, two or three root keywords, pick your geographic territory and they’ll tell me, say for instance, in Kansas City, they’ll give me a whole list of things that people are searching for in and around say Real Estate, what neighborhoods, all that kind of stuff.
Jonathan: I just want to point out to folks that what Phil is saying is there are some free SEO research tools that Google do provide. You do have to, I think correct, I’m sure Robert will correct me on this, I think you’ve got to set up an AdWords account to have access to that. But they’re all free folks. Another thing, I just want to see if Phil agrees with this. Do you think it’s also a good strategy just to spend a few hours generally looking at the competition, putting yourself in the mindset of the target audience that you want and just see what’s out there and write notes and save the URLs of other materials and just see what’s out there, what do you think about that Phil?
Phil: I think keyword research really for people that take a little bit of extra time to do, it really does open people’s eyes because, at some point, you’re just like, you hear blogging, you’ll just write about things like you’re writing to a captive audience, but if you can see the search behavior and naturally bake into your work and manage the balance, you can uncork a lot of SEO value that you wouldn’t have gotten if you just would have written based on what you want to say versus the way people are thinking. Another good point is how far will people take some of this research in terms of trying to figure out how to get an edge maybe on their website? So, we do a lot of competitor research and is probably my favorite one to look. So, if somebody comes on board for us, we’re going to take a look at the keyword research.
Keyword research is, I think, one of those things where it takes some discovery to figure out, what are your Marketing goals, what are you going after. Sometimes people will come to us and say, “What’s your keywords?” Well, we like to go and say, “Let’s talk about what are your business goals and who your ideal client is,” and those discussions, a little research will show you what types of words and content you should have.
Jonathan: The tool that you’ve mentioned, I know Robert uses it. I don’t actually use that myself, but it’s a fantastic tool.
Phil: Is that too far though, for most users? That’s an agency tool.
Jonathan: Probably is. That’s an agency tool really. I’m not at SEO. I’m an Online Marketer. I have a couple of other cheaper tools that I use, but it is a superb tool. But I want to get back to things that will really help our audience. And I think this whole subject can be, a lot of agents deal with it, Phil, is by pushing it to one side. Because when we start talking this language, it’s like, “I just can’t be bothered with it.” But I think the reason why it doesn’t have to be so difficult is that if you use the tool that you recommended, which is free, and you also look at the competition, you can also base it on what’s going on in your local communities. And if one of your target audience is maybe people moving into the area, what type of things would those type of people want to know about certain communities and areas in your community, which you’re serving. Would you agree with that Phil?
Phil: Yeah. But still, it comes back into the keyword research piece. If you can figure out how people are searching for things, products and services related to your business in your area, I mean, it’s almost kind of giving you the blueprint to reverse engineer your content strategy. Hopefully, that answers that piece of that question. But getting back to what Robert was saying, because he really touched on a really, I think, important piece of content marketing in general and they way SEO gets results, long-form evergreen content once in a while a lot better than thinner content. Old SEO used to be like lots of pages with very thin content. Now, the competitive keywords that are ranking looks a lot narrower and less pages with much deeper content. That is certainly true, especially when it gets into really competitive stuff, but we’re working at the local level. There’s a trade-off with trying to figure out how to get enough content out there where you’re staying in front of people on multiple channels and then trying to get people back to the website.
So, we still think having smaller consumable pieces of weekly content works a lot for local businesses, but have that evergreen content goal maybe on a once a quarter basis where they can invest in that kind of stuff also makes a lot of sense. But I’m going to take it a step further. One of the other reasons why we do this and this is probably my top SEO content marketing hack that I have is we like to do that keyword research. We like to create, based on what we find, a blog series of 10 to 15 posts so that we can launch them out one at a time in terms of a series on the website and have that consistent presence where we’ve actually thought about it.
Then at the end, stitch them into an e-book that we use as a Call to Action on the website. Then, take it even a step further because we’re really trying to do what I’ve actually had success doing for myself and that’s leverage content and try and use it as a way to elevate your own personal branding and authority. Take that e-book, spin it into a Kindle, put it up on Amazon, make yourself an Amazon author, get those backlinks in by working the feed end of your author page, which there’s all sorts of benefits to that.
Then for your advanced folks that are really into this and understand the importance of being an authority, even in your local niche by having a book, is using it to get guested on podcasts, which has lots of benefits. When you go in and pitch yourself on a podcast and there’s tons of it, it’s hot, it’s never been hotter than it is right now probably. I don’t think it’s going anywhere. But when you can leverage somebody else’s podcast, like for one of our client’s, they’re going on once, twice, maybe four times a month. They’re being pitched as an expert in their space. They have a book. A lot of hosts don’t understand or care if it’s a hardcover book or an e-book or whatever is on its position, as long as the guest has a way to add value to the audience.
But they do a lot of stuff. When you get guests on somebody else’s show, it’s not like doing a guest blogging type thing where you write 1,000-word post and you go do a lot of outreach and they reject it and it’s getting spammy. The guesting piece, you’re getting up somebody’s platform. They’re promoting you as an expert. A lot of times they’ll do a show notes page. It’s about you. There’s customized graphics on it. They promote it to their social media channel. There’s the best, most natural organic back-links you could get probably ever within a niche depending on how you go after these. So there’s this whole process of working it back.
Because if you do this from the beginning, you just do one long-form blog post or you do random blog posts without thinking about the strategy ahead of time, you get this 1-dimensional thing that doesn’t work. But if you think about it ahead of time, I guess my point is you can’t stitch ten random blog posts together into an e-book and then work it into this authority campaign. So you have to kind of work it. But if you do it ahead of time and put some thought into it, you can really 10x your ROI on the same strategy without a whole lot of extra time. And that’s the types of things that we’re trying to do. Well, there’s certain things that maybe Brian Dean might do that work at a larger level and that kind of stuff. But there’s other things you may have to tweak at a local level for different types of niches that still kind of work and you’re making a trade-off. And I think that’s the beauty about SEO is there’s no single path to winning. There’s different ways to skin the cat.
Robert: I totally agree with you.
Jonathan: Before we do this Robert, we’re going to go for our break Robert and then you can come back when we come back. How does that sound Robert? We’re going to go for our break folks and we’ve had a fascinating discussion already and I’m sure the second half is even going to be better. We’ll be back in a few moments folks.
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Jonathan: We’re coming back, folks. We’ve had a bit of a discussion here on SEO. Off you go, Robert.
Robert: Okay. Well, I have a few questions for you. So, Phil, can you give me just a quick example of a couple of local businesses that you are actually talking about? So, to tie this in for the audience, you’re talking about your strategy that you pursue for your client is you’re going to string 10 or 15 blog posts together. They’re going to be in a thread. They’re going to have a theme that you can then turn into an e-book and then you can promote the e-book and put yourself as an expert in your space. Give me a couple of examples of local businesses that you’ve done that for.
Phil: We’ve got one right now that we do. She just put hers up called The Outdoor Living. It’s a guide to building like hardscapes and patios and that kind of stuff. Just launched her website. If you look on Amazon, hopefully, if you do outdoor living, you’ll see it. I’m probably the best example, anything that I do. I’m not smart enough to really just come up with stuff and test it. I just do stuff that works for me and then I end up kind of stringing them together. So obviously, the book that we wrote, SEO for Growth, is a lot of re-purposed content. A lot of it’s freshly written, that kind of stuff. But it’s just an accumulation of things that we’ve worked over time. I’ve got another one. This hack really, really has been super successful for this group of clients. We did a very similar thing but for a group of lawyers.
Robert: Okay. How to Hire Lawyers.
Phil: How to Hire Lawyers. Right. I think you guys can see that’s How to Hire Lawyers.
Robert: Some of our people are going to be listening to us on the straight up podcast. So they can’t see it at all.
Phil: So, that’s right. How to Hire Lawyers is a book that we wrote. We got 12 lawyers together, different practices and they each wrote a chapter on how to hire a lawyer in their niche. So, personal injury, bankruptcy, criminal law and that kind of stuff. So we put all these together. But one of the coolest things that came out of this is one, it was a big group, so it was really awesome. One of the cool things about this hack of getting on to Amazon and making it happen, in this case, since we had a larger group of authors, we were able to time the release of it together to get everybody to beg, borrow and steal all their network. And since there was 12 of them, there was a lot. So we were able to launch the book and do the Marketing effort on Amazon in a short period of time and actually launch this to best-seller status in the category. So we made these guys best-selling authors in their space in a way that they can now use this to leverage and they’re just getting started to getting into the podcast booking. We launch this, I think, last month. And now, we’re starting to leverage it to try and get them on a podcast show.
Jonathan: What comes to mind really, Phil, what you’re saying, let’s say you’re a Real Estate Agent and like you say, you produce some booklet about local communities, there’s normally a lot of local radio stations. If you publish something like that, that gives you a little bit, pushes you out in front than the average agent, you can then probably get on a couple local radio stations, get yourself promoted through that kind of activity. I think that that’s the type of things you’re trying to point out.
Phil: It’s the ultimate business card. You pass it out. It’s authority. When you hold something in your hand like this and there’s a lot of extra benefits. You can execute a project. The other guy, that was maybe the Real Estate Agent, doesn’t have a published book. I would think, yes, it does help you get marketed. It also helps you leave something. Please don’t throw away magazines or books a lot. They leave them until at least they thumb through them once. So there’s all sorts of benefits on that. But in this case, if you can do it in a way like that we did it here, the biggest benefit that came out of the How to Hire Lawyers book was that, we got, and we intentionally did this, we put 12 people together that hadn’t been referring business to each other.
We got them and did a launch party where we had all 12 of them in a room. And now, the biggest benefit of that is the referral piece is coming out from putting these guys together and gals together as a part of a book. So now, they’re kind of their own, you know, you do these things, when you work with somebody, for yourself or your client, when you publish somebody and make them an author, it’s almost feeding into something that everybody has in terms of maybe like a career bucket list type of a deal, milestone type of a deal. In our case, even for clients, you’re kind of elevating your position with them because you’re building their personal brand and their authority, but you also made them an author.
It’s a goal I think of everybody at some point, like they thought about writing a book. But it’s also one of these super shiny things that really helps them out type of a deal and I think it really helps does differentiate people. But also, it works man. When you launch a website, for instance, right now, on SEO for Growth it’s become a high authority website. You search for things like best SEO tools, best SEO tools 2018 or link building services. I mean, our lists and our posts are coming up in the top 1, 2 or 3 and a lot of traffic from that and that’s because when we launched the book, it becomes a launchable piece of content where it naturally attracts a lot of links if you’re smart about the way that you distribute it.
Robert: I’m going to throw in here for a second because one, I do think this idea is brilliant and two, I love the way you’ve applied it. But I also have to say that for the vast majority of our audience, it’s not applicable because the only people inside the audience for the Real Estate space where a strategy like this is probably really going to sing to them is the Luxury Real Estate market.
Robert: You have a few Luxury Real Estate parts of the country that would probably do really well with this like New York, Los Angeles. But there’s places in the country, whole states where they probably couldn’t really truly successfully, like having a book in certain places in Texas is just not going to do that much. You could say, for instance, unless it has to do really specifically with the landscape like How to Buy a Ranch, something like that in certain parts of Texas like Plano and things of that nature. So, I’m going to actually ask you, but I’m going to ask us all to step back a few paces because we were talking to you about evergreen.
Robert: And you were talking about thin content versus, I can’t remember the language that you used, but it might have been more sustainable content or you might have said deeper piece of content. I’m curious to know what you think. Define for me, in your own words, what a thin piece of content is? How would you define that versus an evergreen? What are the differences in thin content post versus an evergreen post according to Phil?
Phil: Yeah. And I think the definition on this could vary a lot, but when I think of an evergreen piece of content, I think of something that’s really thorough. It’s got a lot of reference pieces in it, maybe some of your own case studies and research on it that can be added to and built to. When I think of evergreen content, I don’t think of something that’s done once and then used forever. So I think if you’re really going to be evergreen, you’re ever working on making it better and this is another Brian Dean thing.
We’ll come in and, go and see their research, back it up, make it better and better and better and keep working on it. Not every blog post that you do might warrant that kind of work and effort, but I think a longer form blog post that goes much deeper into maybe a topic area and almost becomes like an educational piece or almost like a guide is how I think I would invest more in terms of an evergreen content. For one piece I did actually, I was going to put out as an e-book, but it ended up being, I think, 6,000 or 8,000 words and I said, “You know what? I’m going to make this as a long-form piece and start adding it to and it has a core thing.” And that’s how I think of it.
Phil: I work with a bunch of companies. One of them I work with is called The Content Company. They’re basically third-party writers. You can get somebody to write good content for you for 5, 10 cents a word type of thing because that’s the biggest challenge for a lot of businesses, especially Real Estate agents. No small business that we have, including myself, writes all their own content all the time. I get help doing it. I come back and edit it and add to it and stuff, but I do have people write for me on certain things and almost all of our clients too because there’s just no way we could produce it in-house. But my point, in talking to some of these other folks that have lots of agencies as clients, I know they’re getting a lot more requests for longer form pieces because I think people see the benefit in terms of building the authority up.
But also, in our book, I think we quoted SearchThat said, in 2014 that, the number one post across the Internet was like 2,200 words or something like that. You don’t want to get too far into the number because some people aren’t going to want to, if you have something to say that’s more topical, you don’t need 2,200 words for every post to do that nor do you have the time. You’ve got to think about where’s the return on it. But, yeah. I think it definitely works and it makes a lot of sense. The way we try and build stuff now is, I think if you go back and this is probably another big hack is we do a lot based on what Google says you should do in the Google Search Quality Evaluator’s Guidelines.
Phil: That’s 160-page document that Google gives to an army of 10,000 people that literally go on a daily basis and check the quality of search results, like manually check the algorithm. Inside of the document, Google hammers these people. They’re not Rocket Science they’re trying to train. These are like average people that just are trying to make 10 or 20 bucks. They tell them what to focus on on a website and they use acronyms and the one they use the most is called EAT, Expertise Authority and Trust.
Robert: Authority and Trust. Yeah.
Phil: So those are the things that I think of. Okay, people talk about this and that, but what are the things you should really be focusing on your website that establish these goals. Because if Google’s spending 160-page and all this money to train, that’s the window into the algorithm right there. That’s what they want you to on to it. So if they’re telling you to put these elements on, then that’s what we do. So, long-form content I think is one way to accomplish and build expertise, authority, and trust into your website. But I also think having other things like more consistent flow of posts and actually building a social media channel where you’re able to drip feed them decent content like on a consistent basis also is one of these things that helps you build expertise, authority, and trust on your website.
Jonathan: That’s great Phil. We’re going to wrap it up for the podcast part of the show folks, but Phil has agreed to stay on and answer some more questions. I think in the bonus content folks, which you’ll be able to listen and watch on the Mail-Right website, is that we’re going to ask Phil about the difference between local SEO . . .
Robert: And . . .
Jonathan: And also my partner.
Phil: You’re going to drill me some more.
Robert: Yeah, no. And we’re going to give an example of everything that Phil’s going to be talking about because I found a good one and it’s going to be a shameless plug for him and everybody should like it.
Phil: Thanks man.
Jonathan: Oh, that’s great. Thank you, Robert. So, Phil, if people want to find out more about you and what you’re up to Phil, what’s the best online places for them to find out more about you?
Phil: SEO for Growth, the official book site. You can get it on Amazon, but if you go back to the website, we’ve got a nice bundle. gave us an e-book that we gave away with the book. And also, there’s an e-book Website SEO from the guys at Yoast. So seoforgrowth.com. Kcwebdesigner.com is kind of the home base that pays the bills man. That’s the little website that could that I’ve been working off of for the last 12, 13 years. I started another business with John Jantsch who’s my co-author on the book called Podcast Bookers. Because I’ve had success with it, we do that now too. I truly think this is something people can do their own outreach for if they wanted to get started on it. But it’s been the best thing that’s happened to my whole business and biggest bang for the buck that we’ve done really is getting guest on great shows like yours and I think everybody can do that to some extent, establish them self as an authority. But we have developed podcastbookers.com to do that. But I think it’s something you could do on your own to get started, maybe you didn’t want to hire a service. We’re not the only ones. There’s other good ones out there as well. But I think this is a great hack so check it out.
Jonathan: Thanks for that Phil. And Robert, how can people find out more about you Robert and your services?
Robert: Just go to inboundrem.com.
Jonathan: That’s great, thanks. And if you want to find out more about Mail-Right, just go to mail-right.com. I’ve shown Robert our recent updates. I think I blew him away actually. He understands the madness of our platform folks. And we’ll be back next week with a great guest. We’re about technology and Real Estate and how using the latest technology can help you build a great Real Estate business. We’ll see you next week folks. Bye.